Ongoing discussion of Ukraine

[Sarex]

Deflecting again. Nice. 

 

I already said Dubrovnic wasn't destroyed. You are the one clinging to one disputed 'massacre' and insinuating that all the depraved **** that happened in that conflic really wasn't. 

 

But first you said it was, it illustrates your knowledge of the conflict. Also he never said the ****ed up **** didn't happen, but that is wasn't in line with how the western media depicted it.

[Malcador]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

[BruceVC]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

 

Holy Smoke .....that is going to utterly destroy Zora, 2133, Vals , Sarex and any others opinions that  the Crimean annexation had any legitimacy

[Malcador]

http://www.president-sovet.ru/structure/gruppa_po_migratsionnoy_politike/materialy/problemy_zhiteley_kryma.php
 
Translated bit

- The vast majority of inhabitants of Sevastopol voted in a referendum to join Russia (50-80% turnout), Crimea according to various sources for joining Russia voted 50-60% voter turnout with a total of 30-50%;

- Inhabitants of Crimea voted not so much for joining Russia, as for the termination, in their words, "corruption and lawlessness thieves dominance Donetsk henchmen." Inhabitants of Sevastopol to vote for annexation to Russia. Fears illegal armed groups in Sevastopol were higher than in other regions of the Crimea.

Turnout could be better. I guess if you didn't vote, don't complain ?

Edited May 6, 2014 by Malcador

[Polite_Orc]

Nah, you don't have to stop on account of me. Though I will say this, trough out most of history and wars Serbia was always on the side of the West, no matter who the enemy was how far he outnumbered us and what the consequences were to be. We never got help until it was too late, we always made a difference and we always lost the most because of it. What have we got to show for it today? Being depicted as the villains in every movie and tv show out there, thus poisoning the minds of future generations with rubbish like Serbs are evil, etc. and to add insult to injury a movement has started to revise the history of WW1, where the Serbs are depicted as the aggressors. With nations like Germany, Japan and Croatia it's forgive and forget, no matter what anyone has done, but Serbia it seems has some sins to repent for until the end of days. I mean ffs, even the Americans who are genocidal with Muslims have for some reason stepped in to protect the interests of Albanians, though that had more to do with that giant military base they plopped in Kosovo.

In before bad english

 

 

Hello everyone, it's fun that I was looking for a news on english boards about Pillars of Ethernity to read, and as result I am seeng such a hot discussion here.

 

There was a notice a few pages ago, about how russian citizen act different towards Putin, and that there are strong critique and difbelief in our almighty immortal Emperor exists.

If you want opinion about russian tendency for now, here it is.

In fact, russians today feeling strong rise of self-awareness and high spirit. Regardless of their opinion about inner course of Kremlin governent.

 

The reason is simple, and it is the same, as serbian gentelman Sarex mentioned about his country. So i feel need to present you a few words just as another opinion.

 

Russians are simply tired to be portrayed by self-proclaimed "civilized people" as monsters and abominations. After the collapse of Soviet Union there were really hard and unstable times for the citizen, there are lot of inner problems in the country already. And as for foreighn policy, every westen country today blaming russians for crimes and mass murders as if they are some sort of raiders from the Vault 15. Russians ate tired of the inadeqquate agressiveness against them, and feeling some sort of cautiousness and even afraid of NATO slowly surrounding russian borders with the military bases. You may say that western media may be targeting all the time the Kremlin Government and yet instead they are hitting russians when they accuse us to be a nation of henocidal drunkards.

Putin, as for today, is, as we say, fast as diarrea, and in modern situation of NATO\Russia Ukraine, instead of taking position of the always guilty loser, used a Kosovo precedent to defend Eastern Ukraine, historically consisting almost entirely of ethnical russians, against riots with marauders and murders at times when clearly anti-russian temporary nacionalistic government comes to power with force.

Russians are starting to be some sort of proud that they are, well, russians, and are definitely doing things the right way.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

[Gorgon]

The Japanese and Chinese feel the same way, it's called resurgent nationalism and it's rarely a good thing. Rule of thumb : always mistrust your own country and it's motivations and never think anything is 'good' because it's good for your country. 

 

Nation states are all wolves fighting over the same carcass, plain and simple. 

[Sarex]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

 

Heh, the only visible comment from the author of the article is too funny. He admits he has no proof, but still goes on with the original point.

[obyknven]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

 

Lol, this Putin's 'Human Rights Council' actually is filial of ZOG. Nobody known why he don't sent them in GULAG, but this fifth column constantly produce russophobic and even Russian-hating statements. Everyone considered them as some sort circus with clowns, or trolls who acts as vaccine against western trolling.

[BruceVC]

 

Nah, you don't have to stop on account of me. Though I will say this, trough out most of history and wars Serbia was always on the side of the West, no matter who the enemy was how far he outnumbered us and what the consequences were to be. We never got help until it was too late, we always made a difference and we always lost the most because of it. What have we got to show for it today? Being depicted as the villains in every movie and tv show out there, thus poisoning the minds of future generations with rubbish like Serbs are evil, etc. and to add insult to injury a movement has started to revise the history of WW1, where the Serbs are depicted as the aggressors. With nations like Germany, Japan and Croatia it's forgive and forget, no matter what anyone has done, but Serbia it seems has some sins to repent for until the end of days. I mean ffs, even the Americans who are genocidal with Muslims have for some reason stepped in to protect the interests of Albanians, though that had more to do with that giant military base they plopped in Kosovo.

In before bad english

 

 

Hello everyone, it's fun that I was looking for a news on english boards about Pillars of Ethernity to read, and as result I am seeng such a hot discussion here.

 

There was a notice a few pages ago, about how russian citizen act different towards Putin, and that there are strong critique and difbelief in our almighty immortal Emperor exists.

If you want opinion about russian tendency for now, here it is.

In fact, russians today feeling strong rise of self-awareness and high spirit. Regardless of their opinion about inner course of Kremlin governent.

 

The reason is simple, and it is the same, as serbian gentelman Sarex mentioned about his country. So i feel need to present you a few words just as another opinion.

 

Russians are simply tired to be portrayed by self-proclaimed "civilized people" as monsters and abominations. After the collapse of Soviet Union there were really hard and unstable times for the citizen, there are lot of inner problems in the country already. And as for foreighn policy, every westen country today blaming russians for crimes and mass murders as if they are some sort of raiders from the Vault 15. Russians ate tired of the inadeqquate agressiveness against them, and feeling some sort of cautiousness and even afraid of NATO slowly surrounding russian borders with the military bases. You may say that western media may be targeting all the time the Kremlin Government and yet instead they are hitting russians when they accuse us to be a nation of henocidal drunkards.

Putin, as for today, is, as we say, fast as diarrea, and in modern situation of NATO\Russia Ukraine, instead of taking position of the always guilty loser, used a Kosovo precedent to defend Eastern Ukraine, historically consisting almost entirely of ethnical russians, against riots with marauders and murders at times when clearly anti-russian temporary nacionalistic government comes to power with force.

Russians are starting to be some sort of proud that they are, well, russians, and are definitely doing things the right way.

 

 

 Nonetheless Western sanctions are going to really start hurting your economy, in fact they are already hurting your economy. The best thing for Russia to do  is not to invade eastern Ukraine...its really not worth the pain that the sanctions will cause

[obyknven]

 

 Nonetheless Western sanctions are going to really start hurting your economy, in fact they are already hurting your economy. The best thing for Russia to do  is not to invade eastern Ukraine...its really not worth the pain that the sanctions will cause

 

We don't want invade pathetic Ukraine. Our plans are more gorgeous.

[Hassat Hunter]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/feed/

 

Yeah, guy looks legit...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

 

 

Heh, the only visible comment from the author of the article is too funny. He admits he has no proof, but still goes on with the original point.

Frankly, I'd take the opinion of neocons with a cinderblock of salt, as they aren't happy unless the US is bombing or invading someone.

[Walsingham]

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

 

Heh, the only visible comment from the author of the article is too funny. He admits he has no proof, but still goes on with the original point.

Frankly, I'd take the opinion of neocons with a cinderblock of salt, as they aren't happy unless the US is bombing or invading someone.

 

 

This is me saying it: they must be happy a LOT.

[Zoraptor]

The guy is basically a blogger, much as Erik Kain is on the gaming side (though Kain is far, far better). He doesn't have any inherent authority gained from being associated with Forbes and it similar to citing Alex Jones or similar non ironically. His source is a garbled Ukrainian news report, which misrepresents a post poll survey as being the poll itself.

 

Not exactly a new thing, there's a great sideline in the media about quoting opinion polls to show support for Ukrainian unity which all conveniently ignore that supporting separation is actually criminal. You have to be brave or stupid to tell some random voice over the phone- who knows your name, address and phone number- that you're committing thought crime. Which is why surveys on any illegal activity have to be done very carefully and not as a part of some random opinion poll.

 

And in shocking news, Eurovision will count votes from Crimea as being from Ukraine. The irony? You can't vote for your own country, but Crimeans will be able to vote for Russia.

[Mor]

 

Are you sure its not your bias that is talking?

 

Pretty sure. You don't see western politicians talking about revolution and uprising in that manner and he was stating quite plainly that it was planned, we have no reason to doubt him. [...]

 

Riiiight.. amd how many Western states that had a Colour revolution just prior to that? in our case a nationwide protests that uncovered vote rigging and led to a political victory in the ballots.

 

Anyway you are welcome to assume whatever you want about his turn of phrase, and extrapolate theories concerning the whole of Euromaiden movment, what happened later and what happens now, while disregarding any other factors, but at this point I think we will have to agree to disagree, as I explained here and here, your reverse pyramid is nothing but satisfying your confirmation bias.

 

If we hadn't got revolution and uprising it'd be open to interpretation, certainly, but less than a year after that interview that is precisely what we did get. Planned for, played for, and got. Quod Erat decidedly non passively Demonstrandum.

Your remind me religious "scholars". The problem is when you know what you want to prove you'd likely find the "proof" you seek.

 

For example reading your posts, one might think that Russia is made of incompetent impotent fools, even though Ukraine is in their back yard part of their sphere of influence, and the have all the advantages, from leverage mechanisms, control of media/narrative, amenable local populace with common history/prejudices against NATO/west and even cosy relationships(or at least understanding) with the previous government. Always outplayed by US\EU, always faced against power hungry hardliner and always has to resolve to direct action to save those people from the menace from the west.

 

What lucky incompetent impotent fool Putin must be for stumbling into one after another NATO leaning country, always making a strategic real estate grabs...

[Zoraptor]

Shrug. I've got no particular fandom for Russian competence or incompetence, though I think Putin has played a weak hand well overall- but the west could only get their guys into power by 'cheating', and being antidemocratic, Putin's man was duly and fairly elected four years ago and pro Russians won the rada elections as well. Can't say the same of Turchenov and Yatsenyuk, who owe their positions entirely to, well, "uprising" and "revolution" per Tyanybok, rather than democratic process. You can't judge competence based on people breaking rules, else the most competent football team in the world would be the one that brought AKs to the game and shot the opposition team and referees during their 2134-0 victory and the most competent politician in the world is King Jong Un, with his 100% approval in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

 

But I'll concede the point, yes, the west is far more competent than Russia at getting their way undemocratically, and Putin/ Russia was naive thinking they'd honour results their own monitoring organ described as fair, rather than plot to overturn them. Their charming naivete and willingness to believe the best in the west despite the repeated betrayals is, most certainly, one of Russia's most endearing attributes.

[HoonDing]

 

 

 Nonetheless Western sanctions are going to really start hurting your economy, in fact they are already hurting your economy. The best thing for Russia to do  is not to invade eastern Ukraine...its really not worth the pain that the sanctions will cause

 

We don't want invade pathetic Ukraine. Our plans are more gorgeous.

 

Edited May 6, 2014 by Drudanae

[Mor]

@Zoraptor, Really? I am tiered of your Demagoguery, as in appeals to prejudices, and ignorance, and low on anything that resembles facts and real arguments that build on consideration of all the facts.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Hey Zor and Mor, can you guys just **** already? All this sassy foreplay is getting old.

[Calax]

And Russian Bombers are buzzing US borders.

[BruceVC]

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

 

Heh, the only visible comment from the author of the article is too funny. He admits he has no proof, but still goes on with the original point.

Frankly, I'd take the opinion of neocons with a cinderblock of salt, as they aren't happy unless the US is bombing or invading someone.

 

 

I didn't realize the journalist was a neocon, if so then his views are irrelevant

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

 

Heh, the only visible comment from the author of the article is too funny. He admits he has no proof, but still goes on with the original point.

 

Frankly, I'd take the opinion of neocons with a cinderblock of salt, as they aren't happy unless the US is bombing or invading someone.

 

 

I didn't realize the journalist was a neocon, if so then his views are irrelevant

 

Bruce, why am I not surprised that you would dismiss someone you previously agreed with(sans evidence of their claims) because you find out they are politically contrary to your beliefs.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

 

I like the last paragraph of that article.

 

Heh, the only visible comment from the author of the article is too funny. He admits he has no proof, but still goes on with the original point.

 

Frankly, I'd take the opinion of neocons with a cinderblock of salt, as they aren't happy unless the US is bombing or invading someone.

 

 

I didn't realize the journalist was a neocon, if so then his views are irrelevant

 

Bruce, why am I not surprised that you would dismiss someone you previously agreed with(sans evidence of their claims) because you find out they are politically contrary to your beliefs.

 

 

That's the last time  I support your opinion KP, all it does is get me criticized

 

But there is no contradiction around my change of view. Forbes is a credible website but the neocons aren't. I didn't realize the journalist was a neocon so I would naturally distance myself from there political perspective. People are allowed to do that, that's what honest political discussion is about young grasshopper. You should be allowed to say "on further reflection I don't agree with that source of information"

 

Intransigence around our views on these forums is one of the things you complain about. You should be happy I admitted I was wrong

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So the fact the guy is a neocon is more discrediting than the fact he didn't have proof? I'm sorry Bruce, but that just stinks of bat****.