"Maidan" in US

[213374U]

 

 

What I find particularly frustrating is that half-baked polarisation means alienation from exactly the normal measures of monitoring and causing a fuss that Enoch and I are talking about.

 

Functional government is dull and time consuming. Far more fun to run around pretending we're all just about to get stomped.

If what the video Valsuem posted checks out this isn't so much the government as corrupt officials utilizing the government to make their fortunes (although to be honest this isn't something new in the US) It seems that the levels of corruption and their blatant disregard for public opinion are beginning to anger people. Whether their fears jump to the irrational; and fear always does, its undeniable that the US government has been growing corrupt for a long time now and the public seem to be beginning to understand what this means.

 

The fact that it was posted by an account called "StormCloudsGathering" should give you some clue as to their biases.  As Wals put it, they're among those running around pretending that we're all just about to get stomped. 

 

 

I'm not sure what's the point you're trying to make here. Would it be more credible if the account was named "StarsAndStripes4Ever" or something? I'm not passing judgment on the video itself because I'm not informed enough to tell if their bias is actually distorting the *facts*. Is it the presentation or the tone that you feel make it worthless? Vexingly enough, the video has now been taken down.

 

Please note that I'm genuinely interested; I respect your opinion and even if I don't necessarily agree with you on everything (and I'm terribly unqualified to even form an opinion with which agree or disagree in many topics), I value your input—but I think this dismissive attitude is quite close to what you accused Valsuelm of just a few posts ago.

[Gorgon]

Ridiculous doing the whole swat act for non payment of grazing taxes, I have to agree there. 

[Meshugger]

Why am i suddenly watching Waco-documentaries after reading this thread?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Why am i suddenly watching Waco-documentaries after reading this thread?

Netflix, Hulu, and Porn are currently unavailable?

[Wrath of Dagon]

What will happen though is that every bit of freedom that erodes in the name of something isn't going to be given back. Terrorism may become a thing of the past but I doubt the NSA is going to stop spying on Americans. Eventually it will reach a point where no one in the world could argue that America isn't a plutocracy.

It's an oligarchy : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10769041/The-US-is-an-oligarchy-study-concludes.html

[Orogun01]

 

What will happen though is that every bit of freedom that erodes in the name of something isn't going to be given back. Terrorism may become a thing of the past but I doubt the NSA is going to stop spying on Americans. Eventually it will reach a point where no one in the world could argue that America isn't a plutocracy.

It's an oligarchy : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10769041/The-US-is-an-oligarchy-study-concludes.html

 

Good to know, now we can declare the constitution to be just a historical document and finally embrace our new overlords.

[Valsuelm]

 

 

What I find particularly frustrating is that half-baked polarisation means alienation from exactly the normal measures of monitoring and causing a fuss that Enoch and I are talking about.

 

Functional government is dull and time consuming. Far more fun to run around pretending we're all just about to get stomped.

If what the video Valsuem posted checks out this isn't so much the government as corrupt officials utilizing the government to make their fortunes (although to be honest this isn't something new in the US) It seems that the levels of corruption and their blatant disregard for public opinion are beginning to anger people. Whether their fears jump to the irrational; and fear always does, its undeniable that the US government has been growing corrupt for a long time now and the public seem to be beginning to understand what this means.

 

The fact that it was posted by an account called "StormCloudsGathering" should give you some clue as to their biases.  As Wals put it, they're among those running around pretending that we're all just about to get stomped. 

 

 

You would learn much from watching the videos there, and more if you actually researched what the guy on that channel ever talks about. But, keep on with your head in the sand. I hear it's good for psionics and divination to skip the stick and make your body the divination rod. No doubt that's how you knew what SCG was all about before ever watching or reading what SCG produces.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Valsuelm]

Why am i suddenly watching Waco-documentaries after reading this thread?

 

Well.. there are parallels. If it wasn't for modern technology (phone cameras, and the internet to spread the word fast so supporters could show up as well as keep the government from having a monopoly on the information of what's going on) things would likely have gone far differently out in the Nevada desert last week.

 

The Branch Davidian event in Waco is definitely something worth reading/watching up on. Also, go look up the events that transpired at Ruby Ridge if you're unfamiliar with that. I can't recall the name of it but there's a very good documentary out there with interviews with the survivors of that situation as well as with numerous folks involved. Both are examples of great atrocities and beyond serious overreaches of power by the Federal government that resulted in great tragedy and multiple deaths.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Valsuelm]

 

I'm not sure what's the point you're trying to make here. Would it be more credible if the account was named "StarsAndStripes4Ever" or something? I'm not passing judgment on the video itself because I'm not informed enough to tell if their bias is actually distorting the *facts*. Is it the presentation or the tone that you feel make it worthless? Vexingly enough, the video has now been taken down.

 

Please note that I'm genuinely interested; I respect your opinion and even if I don't necessarily agree with you on everything (and I'm terribly unqualified to even form an opinion with which agree or disagree in many topics), I value your input—but I think this dismissive attitude is quite close to what you accused Valsuelm of just a few posts ago.

 

SCG took the video down yesterday evening as it contained a factual error, and he's concerned with journalistic integrity. I think it would have been better to leave it up as there was only one error amongst many facts presented, and just add a note in the video with a correction but the guy behind SCG decided to take it down all together. He generally very good at researching the facts and ideas he presents on whatever subject he talks about, and along with his videos always sources very well whats in them on his website.

 

He's stated he's going to put up another video on the subject at some point (could be days or a couple weeks knowing him). There's a short video giving a somewhat ambiguous reason as to why the video was taken down, but the specific reason is discussed on their facebook page and loosely in the comments of that video. In essence he cited a news story from some months back (I forget the date) that was somewhat rendered obsolete by things that happened since that story broke, which he wasn't aware of when he made the video. He was tying Reid directly and concretely to the Bundy situation, and provided evidence. One aspect of that evidence turned out to be outdated info. Reid is still tied to the Bundy situation through other things that have been mentioned by multiple news sources, albeit more loosely. I'll post the updated video when it's released.

 

As for what our local pharaoh accused me of.... either he fails at reading comprehension of suffers from polarization such as I mentioned in this post in another thread. I do not make accusations of corruption or incompetence based on my disagreements with someone, but based on there actually being evidence of corruption or incompetence. Pharaoh assumes much and/or fails to understand what I wrote in order to make those accusations. He doesn't even know who on the Supreme Court I consider corrupt, who I consider incompetent, didn't bother to ask (it wasn't pertinent to my point to get specific), yet divines that I must disagree with them since I laid that charge. Truth be told, I follow the Supreme Court quite a bit and read a number of their rulings and opinions each year, at one point or another I've agreed and disagreed with everyone on that bench, yet I don't consider them all corrupt or incompetent. Perhaps pharaoh needs to add something to the sand he has his head in to help him divine better, maybe we should stick a crystal ball down there with him.

 

[Guard Dog]

Something really good may come from all of this: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57836973-90/utah-lands-lawmakers-federal.html.csp

 

It's about time. The US is a union of 50 sovereign states after all and it is difficult for a state to assert it's own sovereignty when an outside government controls 85% of it's land. If this happens it will make it difficult for the filthy corrupt freedom hating bastards on the Potomac like Sen Harry Reid from ordering people off land at gunpoint so he can turn around and sell it to Chinese power companies.

[Valsuelm]

Something really good may come from all of this: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57836973-90/utah-lands-lawmakers-federal.html.csp

 

It's about time. The US is a union of 50 sovereign states after all and it is difficult for a state to assert it's own sovereignty when an outside government controls 85% of it's land. If this happens it will make it difficult for the filthy corrupt freedom hating bastards on the Potomac like Sen Harry Reid from ordering people off land at gunpoint so he can turn around and sell it to Chinese power companies.

 

Indeed. This situation, as it progresses, may help to highlight what's wrong with the 17th amendment to those who don't see the fundamental problem with it as well. If Reid keeps up his rhetoric that is, which he is likely to do.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Something really good may come from all of this: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57836973-90/utah-lands-lawmakers-federal.html.csp

 

It's about time. The US is a union of 50 sovereign states after all and it is difficult for a state to assert it's own sovereignty when an outside government controls 85% of it's land. If this happens it will make it difficult for the filthy corrupt freedom hating bastards on the Potomac like Sen Harry Reid from ordering people off land at gunpoint so he can turn around and sell it to Chinese power companies.

I'd say there's about as much chance of that happening as of going back to federalism. In fact I heard in Texas the feds are trying to buy up more land, then lease it back to the owner just so they can control its use. And of course the EPA is about to start regulating every back yard puddle. But we can always hope.

[Walsingham]

I don't mean this as hostile as it probably sounds. But the environment is inherently non-federated. It doesn't even respect national boundaries.

 

Like the war on terror trans-whatever issues pose a real challenge to localisation of control.

[Guard Dog]

I don't mean this as hostile as it probably sounds. But the environment is inherently non-federated. It doesn't even respect national boundaries.

 

Like the war on terror trans-whatever issues pose a real challenge to localisation of control.

You are operating from the mistaken impression the federal government gives a sh-t about the environment. The people in the government don't care about land they don't live near. They care about their money, their power, their continuation in office. If they have to run agricultural or other interests off that land to sell it to someone else so be it. And if they can cloak their business dealings in the pseudo-morality of helping the environment then that would just be the icing on the cake.  

 

The Bundy situation is pretty close to matching that description to a T. One of my favorite quotes is "Government is small minded people grasping for power under the guise of advancing high minded ideals".

[Walsingham]

I know I'm retreading conversations we've had before, GD. But my point is that whether you like it or not there are some problems which can only be dealt with at a high level - national or transnational.

 

The environment is one of them.

 

Corrupt or not you're going to get situations where a national agency, which is ordered by The People to 'sort out' environmental issues is going to try and sequester lots of stuff.

[Hurlshort]

 

I don't mean this as hostile as it probably sounds. But the environment is inherently non-federated. It doesn't even respect national boundaries.

 

Like the war on terror trans-whatever issues pose a real challenge to localisation of control.

You are operating from the mistaken impression the federal government gives a sh-t about the environment. The people in the government don't care about land they don't live near. They care about their money, their power, their continuation in office. If they have to run agricultural or other interests off that land to sell it to someone else so be it. And if they can cloak their business dealings in the pseudo-morality of helping the environment then that would just be the icing on the cake.  

 

The Bundy situation is pretty close to matching that description to a T. One of my favorite quotes is "Government is small minded people grasping for power under the guise of advancing high minded ideals".

 

 

That kind of sounds like a campaign push for Al Gore

[Valsuelm]

Updated SCG video in regards to the Reid/Bundy connection:

 

[Guard Dog]

 

 

I don't mean this as hostile as it probably sounds. But the environment is inherently non-federated. It doesn't even respect national boundaries.

 

Like the war on terror trans-whatever issues pose a real challenge to localisation of control.

You are operating from the mistaken impression the federal government gives a sh-t about the environment. The people in the government don't care about land they don't live near. They care about their money, their power, their continuation in office. If they have to run agricultural or other interests off that land to sell it to someone else so be it. And if they can cloak their business dealings in the pseudo-morality of helping the environment then that would just be the icing on the cake.  

 

The Bundy situation is pretty close to matching that description to a T. One of my favorite quotes is "Government is small minded people grasping for power under the guise of advancing high minded ideals".

 

 

That kind of sounds like a campaign push for Al Gore

 

  Al Gore's dirty little secret is that he does not really give a damn about the environment either. It was just something he used to stay relevant after he lost the election.

[Valsuelm]

 

 

 

I don't mean this as hostile as it probably sounds. But the environment is inherently non-federated. It doesn't even respect national boundaries.

 

Like the war on terror trans-whatever issues pose a real challenge to localisation of control.

You are operating from the mistaken impression the federal government gives a sh-t about the environment. The people in the government don't care about land they don't live near. They care about their money, their power, their continuation in office. If they have to run agricultural or other interests off that land to sell it to someone else so be it. And if they can cloak their business dealings in the pseudo-morality of helping the environment then that would just be the icing on the cake.  

 

The Bundy situation is pretty close to matching that description to a T. One of my favorite quotes is "Government is small minded people grasping for power under the guise of advancing high minded ideals".

 

 

That kind of sounds like a campaign push for Al Gore

 

  Al Gore's dirty little secret is that he does not really give a damn about the environment either. It was just something he used to stay relevant after he lost the election.

 

 

Oh.. and to make many many many many millions of dollars. Can't forget that.

[Guard Dog]

Updated SCG video in regards to the Reid/Bundy connection:

 

I've always thought the smoking gun for his involvement is in the Dry Lake mitigation which was required to make that deal happen and has not happened yet because of the cows on Gold Butte.

[NOK222]

So this guy said something very racist recently. He lost the little sympathy I had for him. 

[Valsuelm]

So this guy said something very racist recently. He lost the little sympathy I had for him. 

 

Isn't it wonderful when folks call people racist and don't substantiate?

 

Take your trolling elsewhere please.

[NOK222]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cliven-bundy-are-blacks-better-off-as-slaves

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/24/politics/bundy-and-race/

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/04/cliven-bundy-shockingly-turns-out-to-be-racist.html

 

Herp Herp I'm a troll. 

 

I expect an apology for your false accusation in the next post, thanks in advance. 

Edited April 25, 2014 by NKKKK

[Hurlshort]

 

So this guy said something very racist recently. He lost the little sympathy I had for him. 

 

Isn't it wonderful when folks call people racist and don't substantiate?

 

Take your trolling elsewhere please.

 

 

Are you kidding?  It's all over the news.  The guy is nuts, but if you've spent much time in Nevada, that should not surprise anyone.  

It doesn't really change the whole case though.  It just makes it clear that everybody involved is terrible.  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Those sources are faked. It's a conspiracy!