Did a full playthrough of BG1-BG ToB..

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Our dungeon/interior corridors have all been designed with full party navigation in mind.  You won't find anything as narrow as Firewine Bridge in Pillars of Eternity.

 

 

If it makes sense for the environment then ok, sure, no problemo. But if you're actually designing every part of the game to cater to people who aren't savvy enough to split their party up at times, I'm disappointed.

[Lephys]

 

Our dungeon/interior corridors have all been designed with full party navigation in mind.  You won't find anything as narrow as Firewine Bridge in Pillars of Eternity.

 

If it makes sense for the environment then ok, sure, no problemo. But if you're actually designing every part of the game to cater to people who aren't savvy enough to split their party up at times, I'm disappointed.

 

Because if constrictively-narrow passageways are out, then the game is devoid of tactics, and splitting your party up and/or scouting with your Rogue yields absolutely no significant benefits anymore, and also is impossible. *nod*

[Valsuelm]

 

Because if constrictively-narrow passageways are out, then the game is devoid of tactics, and splitting your party up and/or scouting with your Rogue yields absolutely no significant benefits anymore, and also is impossible. *nod*

 

 

Way to exaggerate and misinterpret.

[Lephys]

Nah, it was intentional exaggerative sarcasm, to make the point. I fear you've misinterpreted my exaggeration.

 

The point is, what are you really losing if the game gets "dumbed down" or "caters to noobs"? Are you sure mine was the only exaggeration here? Will it really be THAT bad if the game never forces you to control your party in a bunch of crazily narrow passageways? Methinks not. I understand that you had no problem with that, and feel people should be capable of adapting to it. But, that's really the same argument that could be made with a lot of stuff.

 

"In Battlefield 4, you should just learn to fly jets with your keyboard and mouse, instead of a joystick!"

 

It's almost that level of thinking, because, it's not like some places in PoE aren't still going to give you less room to move around in, and require noobs to adapt or suffer. They're just raising the floor a bit, is all, not eliminating tactical space management from the game.

[Volourn]

"Yeah, after the walking speeds were modded. I'm talking about the Baldur's Gate games, not the other IE games, which had perfectly fine movement speeds."

 

Um.. we're both talking about BG since Friendly Arms Inn is in BG. It did not  ever take 2minutes to walk from one end to the other.  That is with basic walking speed.

 

People like to exaggerate the pathfinding AI in the BG/IE games and I simply don't believe them because it would mean they play a whole different game whcih is illogical.

[Ffordesoon]

"Yeah, after the walking speeds were modded. I'm talking about the Baldur's Gate games, not the other IE games, which had perfectly fine movement speeds."

 

Um.. we're both talking about BG since Friendly Arms Inn is in BG. It did not  ever take 2minutes to walk from one end to the other.  That is with basic walking speed.

 

People like to exaggerate the pathfinding AI in the BG/IE games and I simply don't believe them because it would mean they play a whole different game whcih is illogical.

Unless the Enhanced Edition made the extremely weird choice to make the walking speeds unbearably slow, you are factually incorrect. It took at least a minute. I timed it.

[Volourn]

Are you talking the actual  inn or the entire outside map?Because, inside the actual inn, it should not take an entire 2 minutes (or even 1). Now, outside? I can believe it takes a minute+ (though i doubt it takes  so long that it should be so bothersome with the exaggerations). As it should.

[Messier-31]

Are you talking the actual  inn or the entire outside map?Because, inside the actual inn, it should not take an entire 2 minutes (or even 1). Now, outside? I can believe it takes a minute+ (though i doubt it takes  so long that it should be so bothersome with the exaggerations). As it should.

 

I think what he meant was the outside. One lap around the FAI was taking a fraction of forever back in the day

[Volourn]

 'Fraction of a day' is menaingless. 1 second is a fraction. 23 hours and 59 minutes and 59 seconds is also a 'fraction of a day'.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Good thing he didn't say "fraction of a day" then. LOL

[Fatback]

 

 

When dungeons are designed like That small corridors the combat suffers because of no tactics.

Uh... no. Tactics were a large part of dungeoneering in BG and BG2, in particular in those smaller areas. I enjoyed Firewine Ruins and the rest. Never once did I think the corridors were too small, and the pathing complaints are very exaggerated. I seriously wonder at the game playing abilities of many of the people making these complaints.

 

As others have mentioned, if you don't split your party up sometimes, and in particular when you're going through the smaller places, you're doing it wrong. And yes, it bears repeating, you are doing it wrong. While there are options, there are indeed right and wrong ways to go about playing the game. It irks me to think that anything in PoE will be designed around people making such complaints, far better would be to explain in the manual or somehow hint in game that splitting the party is a good idea (or whatever other thing that might not be obvious to an inexperienced player that would be wise to do). A large reason I backed this game was the hopes that noobery would not be catered to, as it was not in the IE titles, with the exception of the aforementioned sped up walking in the IWDs, which was horribad imo. They got the walking speed right with the first BG.

 

Insofar as the pathing, really, turn it all the way up in the settings and click your destination more than once if it's way across the map and the pathing is better than most modern games even (two clicks is almost always sufficient). I'm playing through NWN2 right now and I find the pathing there to be worse than in the IE games, especially inside. Though it's likely that fewer destination control options (ie no formations) and lack of real party order compared to the IE games the are really the issue. (I've said to myself 'no really guys, I said FOLLOW ME!' too many times in NWN2..... it's great when it works, but it's not rare when it doesn't).

 

And to go a little further on splitting your party: For pretty much everywhere, in the IE games and other RPGs with similar party make up I always scout ahead with my rogue, leaving the rest of the party behind, and only bringing who is needed to a fight after I find enemies (how you generally avoid the noobish complaint of zomg my wizard was 1 shot in the IE games; don't put your wizard in harms way noob ). If you're trollopsing through the unexplored wilderness or wherever with your whole party all the time I can only imagine how many times you end up having to reload after stumbling on something that rocks your party's world. If you scout, you can control who enters the fight first, and from what angle.

I didn't have and pathing problems but I just have Khalid and Minsc walk forward after Iomen disabled traps. No issue with pathing but encounter design is bad like that it's just an auto attack fest. I stopped reading when you started to talk about player ability. I'm not saying it's hard I'm saying it's bad design. Edited April 8, 2014 by Fatback

[Sensuki]

In places like the firewine ruins, I would usually just send in a fighter type and a thief, the former to kill those endless hordes of goddamn Kobold Commandos at range and the latter to detect traps.

 

Everyone else just sat at the entrance. It made things much less annoying.

 

This is what I did too. Fighters and potions. Although the Kobolds spawned near the entrance too so you at least needed one sitting back to defend the weaker party members or a good ranged character with auto attack on.

 

That said I never really found smaller areas annoying. I just accepted it.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Sensuki

[aluminiumtrioxid]

It irks me to think that anything in PoE will be designed around people making such complaints, far better would be to explain in the manual or somehow hint in game that splitting the party is a good idea (or whatever other thing that might not be obvious to an inexperienced player that would be wise to do). A large reason I backed this game was the hopes that noobery would not be catered to, as it was not in the IE titles, with the exception of the aforementioned sped up walking in the IWDs, which was horribad imo. They got the walking speed right with the first BG.

 

 

Ok, it's officially Stockholm Syndrome.

[JFSOCC]

I'm happy to hear we won't see (many) 'corridor hell' maps, as I like to call them. Not only because of the navigation problems, but because they're often uninspired in design. Thanks Josh!