Global Implications of the Ukraine Crisis

[Monte Carlo]

Also, it is quite obvious what the star of David with a lizard's eye in the middle of it represents.

 

 

Not to Gfted.

[Sarex]

Monte if he starts banning people for expressing negative views towards people of other ethnicity, he is gonna ban 90% of the people in this thread. Oby already mentioned the Zionist movements a couple of times in his post and hasn't showed any outright hate towards Jews and as this is the off topic part of the forum he has a right to post anything he wants if it's within the rules.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Sarex

[Valsuelm]

Oby, a lizard's eye in the centre of a Star of David? Orly?

 

And no moderator has pulled you for overt anti-Semitism?

 

This forum is a joke sometimes. I get PM'd by mods for upsetting the pro-romance crowd and Oby gets away with anti-semitic BS like that. YCMIU.

 

It's not antisemitism.

[Sarex]

Source of the image.

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://heideg.livejournal.com/378761.html%3Fthread%3D35667081&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://heideg.livejournal.com/378761.html%253Fthread%253D35667081%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D8Tv%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D906

Edited April 8, 2014 by Sarex

[Monte Carlo]

Would you care to explain why, Valsuelm?

[BruceVC]

Wowzers, this is getting exciting and entertaining

[Malcador]

Maybe they should ban oby just to end to people complaining about him.

[Monte Carlo]

Nah, don't ban him. All he does is post links loaded with viruses and larded with bigotry.

[Valsuelm]

 

Wow this is a very concerning post about life in the Russian federation, I'm hoping some of it is just propaganda. But some of it is truth as well 

Well Russia is generally ranked as third world country, which is likely why Putin made a priority to nationalized media, and I read that they have directives to broadcast at least 50% of reports must be "positive" after all if you are an oblivious fly a big pile of warm steaming **** looks sweet..

 

It is in my understanding all true, but it isn't whole truth and all facts are told only from point of view that serves writer's message, but underlining message is at least true, meaning that Crimeans in all probably will face culture shock in some degree and start to lose their autonomy bit by bit.

That is exactly why the circumstance of the vote were illegal, people got no debate what the ramifications of their vote, iirc opposition members were escorted from the hall, and Russia propaganda was a huge ad campaign for Russian forward base Crimea.

 

As for what culture shock it may incur, I don't know since the majority of Crimea were Russian speakers who watched Russia news as their primary outlet.. besides people don't tend to admit mistakes, and conscription might help unemployment in the short term so who knows, will have to wait and see.

 

 

You fundamentally don't understand what 'third world' even is. Russia, is second world, not third.

 

The term is all about who is aligned with whom. First world generally being US, NATO, and it's allies, and Second world being Russia, China, and their allies. In other words, east vs. west, or in some people's mind's historically democracy vs. communism. The Third World makes up the folks that aren't directly aligned with either the First or Second. Generally those in the 3rd world came to be viewed in almost a derogatory manner as they were considered 'backwards' by those in the First, for not joining the First. Dismissed with hubris as if they don't matter. It is those in the Third World that were often used as pawns by the First and Second to gain influence, resources, etc, or attack the opposing World's influence and resources. ie: Vietnam, various coups and guerrilla wars in Africa, South America, and the middle east, etc.

 

The whole Three Worlds concept is western in origin, and even though the Cold War is over (or is it?) it's still applicable in some people's minds today.

[Sarex]

Nah, don't ban him. All he does is post links loaded with viruses and larded with bigotry.

 

I have seen bigotry posted by more users then Oby, what about them?

[Janmanden]

Well.. It's a little strange to hear about all this turmoil, because around here, everyone is minding their own business, but the media (any media from any country) has (always had) a tendency to blow everything out of proportion and a lot of people are ready to believe it, because the situation is actually pretty bad.

 

I know that Crimea is a very seasonal place with no real economy other than tourism in the summer time. There is usually a massive invasion of Russians in the summer time which infllates the prices and makes it too expensive for 'normal' Ukrainians to go there. On the other hand there are also lots of pensioneers there and with the chaos in Ukraine and with the delays of their pensions they got worried of course and the only thing that matters to anyone here is money. Doesn't matter where they come from or whose picture is on the note as long as it's valid. They panicked and someone was pushing them too. There were some really crazy propaganda at work to ensure the outcome of that vote.

 

Apparently there is a growing number of people who would gladly join Russia to dodge the responsibilities inherent to the budget deficit and whatever other action that would just fix it, but I don't see it, everyone around here where I live are too busy trying to make a living to make time for protests. It must be some very privileged people that can afford to spend so much time causing riots and they are all too happy about shouting and complaining and doing nothing to fix anything and most likely sponsored by the Russian Tsar (Putin). Maybe it makes sense, because a lot of the former U.S.S.R. leaders came from Ukraine and they have a strange fondness of totalitarian regimes.

 

It's actually a pity for Ukraine about the collapse of the U.S.S.R. because it was the only time they were brought together to act like one people and work together, but it also gave rise to the present situation partially caused by the Russian presence from immigration, which was quite normal, when it was part of the U.S.S.R. and the former government who drove the country into ruin - also sponsored by Putin. I think that little KGB dude is still working in his original field and I am afraid that he might be successful with his schemes to force the Ukrainians into joining Russia. There is really a nation-wide father/mother figure absent here.  

[Walsingham]

 

Nah, don't ban him. All he does is post links loaded with viruses and larded with bigotry.

 

I have seen bigotry posted by more users then Oby, what about them?

 

 

Where _precisely_?

[Sarex]

Where _precisely_?

 

Most recently?

 

 

 

have family members working as executives in Gazprom

That explains a lot. If my family had a stake in Gazprom, I'd probably be raised as a Russian apologist too.

 

"Tagaziel would complain if Russia gave the gas away for free since it would- obviously- be an attempt to curry favour and then reestablish the old soviet empire!"

 

You funny Zora but there is some truth in that statement if it ever happened which it won't  ...but I'm not a Troll. I stand by what I say on various issues because I believe it

It's funny how having a different opinion that isn't cynical gets you billed as a troll or a sheep.

 

As for Russia, I guess I'm a little skeptical because it's the country responsible for keeping Poland under its boot for 154 out of the last 200 years, with a long track record of imperialism, warmongering, genocide and ethnic cleansing, atrocities, totalitarianism, and crappy cars. That's just the 20th century alone to boot. Plus, it's helmed by a former KGB officer and recently confirmed that it's a hostile foreign power, so it's not really arbitrary skepticism.

 

As for "free gas", TANSTAAFL.

 

 

 

"Punishment of your country for this is just question of time"

 

you make me laugh sometimes. But the scary thought is I wonder if some Russians do see Poland like this?

I've worked as a small hotel receptionist for 3 years and had quite a few Russian guests. They were never the Oby's type, but nonetheless they all (literally) shared one common trait - they were kinda "patronizing" (for the lack of better word) and couldn't (or didn't wanted to) understand why Poles are so stubborn about being left alone and not willing to get back to "one big happy family". I want to stress out that they were never hostile or angry about that, neither did they felt offended by our denial of those sentiments. IMHO it was more similar to the confusion of a small child who's mommy and daddy hate each other. Child that's to small to understand why do they have to live separately and how could they claim it's "for the best".

 

Coming from a broken family, I think it's the most suitable comparison I could make.

 

 

Go back more if you want, plenty more.

[Valsuelm]

Would you care to explain why, Valsuelm?

 

I'd say the onus of proving it's antisemitism is on you, not on me to prove it's not.

 

However, I find this amusing so:

 

It's a Lizard eye in the center of the Star of David. The lizards eye likely representing conspiracy, or more specifically an alien race conspiracy, and yes, I mean lizard from outer space if you're not familiar with the alien lizards conspiracy. A conspiracy that is not in any way limited to Jewish people (there are Christian lizard people do, or rather, lizard people masquerading as Christians, as well as masquerading as pick your other favorite religion; many people who believe this stuff think George Bush is an alien lizard for example (and while I don't think that's true it would explain some things ). It is really a bunch of hogwash, but many people eat it up. Kinda like Ancient Aliens is also hogwash, but a lot of people eat that up too.

 

Some folks linked the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Something that some hold as gospel and others hold as whackadoodlery. Zionists of course attempt to debunk it as it discusses things such as a Zionist conspiracy and paints them in a not so pretty light. Wooooooooooo. Ooooooooooooo. Conspiracy.

 

Frankly, there are Zionists who conspire (I've actually personally seen it and been a part of it, though I am no Zionist I was assumed to be because of who I once worked for), that's really a fact for anyone who doesn't have their head up their butt, realizes how the world works, and how Israel came to be, as well as the ongoing Pro-Israel and screw those piddly goyim mindset of some modern Zionists. There are also plenty of people who are not Zionists who conspire. Conspiracy happens, quite often, and it's not exclusive to any people or those practicing a certain religion. I bet you've even conspired yourself at some point in your life.

 

Implying that some Jewish folks are conspiring is not antisemitism. It's just implying reality. Implying there are some Jewish folks who conspire and happen to be Lizard aliens is ridiculous and comical, not hateful. It's goofy really.

 

Note, as mentioned by others in this thread, and myself in other threads: Jewish /= Zionist. Even most of the folks who hold the Protocols of Zion as gospel don't think that. Hence it being called the '... of Zion' not the '.... of the Jews'. Believing in them has nothing to do with being antisemitic. I know Jewish people who think the Protocols are legit. Of course these same Jewish people would be considered antisemitic by folks such as those who run the ADL. 'Antisemitic' is really a political hit word, thrown at anyone and everyone who would ever lay criticism at the feet of Israel or Jews in general. Criticizing someone does not mean you hate them. Especially I'd say when you call them a Lizard Alien for outer space.

 

An aside for the moment: Bruce VC, you're a conspiring lizard alien for outerspace!! (do I not sound ridiculous? do you really think I hate BruceVC?)

 

Now. Why the Lizard eye in the Star of David? I'm not sure as I didn't make this symbol, and I doubt Oby is either, but it likely is representing the political Zionist movement and/or Israel. It wouldn't make sense for it to be representing Jews in general. (Something that Israel pretends to do).

 

For those who aren't familiar, there are those who think the Jews control the world. Certainly an exaggeration and a misattribution, but there is a modicum of truth to it as Zionists do indeed wield considerable global power (and they are definitely not the only group who does), and there is some truth to the fact that they run the financial sector. Am I saying that Lizard alien Zionist conspirators control the financial sector 100%, not at all. But the fact is that the most powerful banking family of the 19th and early 20th century, The Rotschilds, and who are still possibly the most powerful banking family in the world, do happen to be Jewish, and they do happen to be Zionist, and they do wield considerable financial power (any billionaire does, and they're billionaires many times over). So does Israel in general, especially in the U.S.. Anyone who is familiar with our foreign policy in the last 70 or so years could tell you that. Not to mention if you know your history, going back to the dark/middle ages, you know that only Jews were generally allowed to be bankers in Europe due to the Catholic prohibition of usury, hence some Jewish folks getting their power in the financial sector in the first place.

 

Really, this is comically stupid that this discussion is even happening. No informed person would say that symbol is antisemitism. It's kinda like the meathead morons in Albuquerque last week who chased down some guys carrying the U.S. flag upside down because they thought it was disrespecting and hateful of the U.S. flag. Anyone who knows what it means to carry or hoist the flag upside down and considers the context the folks carrying it were doing it in (a protest of police brutality/murder in a city PD gone corrupt and amuck) would know the folks carrying that flag were anything but disrespectful to what it represents. Good luck telling that to the ignorant self proclaimed marines though. Heck, even the Young Turks got it, sort of, and they don't usually get much.

 

So like those carrying the U.S. flag upside down the Lizard eye in the Star o David is a protest of certain perceived policies. It is not in anyway some form of hate of Jewish people. Truly, only the uninformed would think so.

 

I hope I had better luck here informing those who don't know of a synopsis of what the Lizard in the Star of David likely represents than anyone will likely ever have with the marine meatheads in the above video.

[Tagaziel]

 

Where _precisely_?

 

Most recently?

 

 

 

have family members working as executives in Gazprom

That explains a lot. If my family had a stake in Gazprom, I'd probably be raised as a Russian apologist too.

 

"Tagaziel would complain if Russia gave the gas away for free since it would- obviously- be an attempt to curry favour and then reestablish the old soviet empire!"

 

You funny Zora but there is some truth in that statement if it ever happened which it won't  ...but I'm not a Troll. I stand by what I say on various issues because I believe it

It's funny how having a different opinion that isn't cynical gets you billed as a troll or a sheep.

 

As for Russia, I guess I'm a little skeptical because it's the country responsible for keeping Poland under its boot for 154 out of the last 200 years, with a long track record of imperialism, warmongering, genocide and ethnic cleansing, atrocities, totalitarianism, and crappy cars. That's just the 20th century alone to boot. Plus, it's helmed by a former KGB officer and recently confirmed that it's a hostile foreign power, so it's not really arbitrary skepticism.

 

As for "free gas", TANSTAAFL.

 

 

 

"Punishment of your country for this is just question of time"

 

you make me laugh sometimes. But the scary thought is I wonder if some Russians do see Poland like this?

I've worked as a small hotel receptionist for 3 years and had quite a few Russian guests. They were never the Oby's type, but nonetheless they all (literally) shared one common trait - they were kinda "patronizing" (for the lack of better word) and couldn't (or didn't wanted to) understand why Poles are so stubborn about being left alone and not willing to get back to "one big happy family". I want to stress out that they were never hostile or angry about that, neither did they felt offended by our denial of those sentiments. IMHO it was more similar to the confusion of a small child who's mommy and daddy hate each other. Child that's to small to understand why do they have to live separately and how could they claim it's "for the best".

 

Coming from a broken family, I think it's the most suitable comparison I could make.

 

 

Go back more if you want, plenty more.

 

That's bigotry? Gee, you learn new things every day.

[Monte Carlo]

I've heard the "Zionism isn't anti-Semitic" schtick too. Fair enough. I'm not a Zionist, but I do understand why the mechanised slaughter of your race on the back of ancient prejudice and bigotry might make you a tad touchy.

 

I'd say 50% of the time it's true, people separate the politics of Israel from Jewry in general. I'm half-Jewish (a Mischling in Oby's eyes, probably) and have met many perfectly reasonable people who fold this position.

 

OTOH, 50% of the time it's a respectable position from which some people camouflage their anti-semitism.

 

Which camp is Oby in, d'you think?

 

Oby is being deliberately provocative and, as far as I'm concerned, knows precisely what he's doing. He's done it before and he'll do it again. He's sly and he's clever. He's also peddling a virulent and unpleasant sort of ultra-nationalism.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I've worked as a small hotel receptionist for 3 years and had quite a few Russian guests. They were never the Oby's type, but nonetheless they all (literally) shared one common trait - they were kinda "patronizing" (for the lack of better word) and couldn't (or didn't wanted to) understand why Poles are so stubborn about being left alone and not willing to get back to "one big happy family". I want to stress out that they were never hostile or angry about that, neither did they felt offended by our denial of those sentiments. IMHO it was more similar to the confusion of a small child who's mommy and daddy hate each other. Child that's to small to understand why do they have to live separately and how could they claim it's "for the best".

 

Coming from a broken family, I think it's the most suitable comparison I could make.

 

Go back more if you want, plenty more.

 

That's bigotry? Gee, you learn new things every day.

 

 

Sorry Sarex but Tagaziel is correct, that's a very weak showing of you giving us examples of bigotry. You need to try harder if you want people to take accusations from you seriously

[Malcador]

Nah, don't ban him. All he does is post links loaded with viruses and larded with bigotry.

 

So what the hell do you want the moderators to do ? Nag him ?

[Valsuelm]

 

Nah, don't ban him. All he does is post links loaded with viruses and larded with bigotry.

 

So what the hell do you want the moderators to do ? Nag him ?

 

 

Yea... get all noober on his arse.

[213374U]

Source of the image.

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://heideg.livejournal.com/378761.html%3Fthread%3D35667081&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://heideg.livejournal.com/378761.html%253Fthread%253D35667081%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D8Tv%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D906

 

That's pretty cool. Especially the Anonymous one. What the hell is that, anyway? A RPG of sorts?

 

 

Well.. It's a little strange to hear about all this turmoil, because around here, everyone is minding their own business, but the media (any media from any country) has (always had) a tendency to blow everything out of proportion and a lot of people are ready to believe it, because the situation is actually pretty bad.

 

I know that Crimea is a very seasonal place with no real economy other than tourism in the summer time. There is usually a massive invasion of Russians in the summer time which infllates the prices and makes it too expensive for 'normal' Ukrainians to go there. On the other hand there are also lots of pensioneers there and with the chaos in Ukraine and with the delays of their pensions they got worried of course and the only thing that matters to anyone here is money. Doesn't matter where they come from or whose picture is on the note as long as it's valid. They panicked and someone was pushing them too. There were some really crazy propaganda at work to ensure the outcome of that vote.

 

Apparently there is a growing number of people who would gladly join Russia to dodge the responsibilities inherent to the budget deficit and whatever other action that would just fix it, but I don't see it, everyone around here where I live are too busy trying to make a living to make time for protests. It must be some very privileged people that can afford to spend so much time causing riots and they are all too happy about shouting and complaining and doing nothing to fix anything and most likely sponsored by the Russian Tsar (Putin). Maybe it makes sense, because a lot of the former U.S.S.R. leaders came from Ukraine and they have a strange fondness of totalitarian regimes.

 

It's actually a pity for Ukraine about the collapse of the U.S.S.R. because it was the only time they were brought together to act like one people and work together, but it also gave rise to the present situation partially caused by the Russian presence from immigration, which was quite normal, when it was part of the U.S.S.R. and the former government who drove the country into ruin - also sponsored by Putin. I think that little KGB dude is still working in his original field and I am afraid that he might be successful with his schemes to force the Ukrainians into joining Russia. There is really a nation-wide father/mother figure absent here.  

 

Thanks, I wish we would get input from people living there more often. So you believe the disturbances in south east Ukraine are being blown out of proportion by the media?

 

In addition, what exactly do you mean by "responsibilities inherent to the budget deficit", though? I'm really interested because it's something that's deeply ingrained in the austerity discourse, but in my experience, it amounts to "cut down on welfare, because". Can you shed some light on the fiscal situation of Ukraine and the measures announced by Kiev? What is the really unjustifiable public spending that absolutely must go to <insert meaningless economic jargon> the economy? Not being able to read Russian or Ukrainian, it's difficult to see the whole picture.

[Valsuelm]

Really, what should the mods do? Well, in this case I think it's a sticky subject. Certainly I do not think he should be banned or even sanctioned in anyway really.

 

That said, obviously his avatar is irking at least one person. And that said, there are avatars on this forum that irk me. Namely, pretty much any that has animations as they are distracting, and especially that one that Cultist has in his sig. Shoot me but I don't exactly enjoy seeing some retard wave a **** turd at me every time I come to this forum (and if you're read the books, you'd know that scene never happens, so the Song of Ice and Fire purist in me is slightly irked in that manner as well).

 

Also, I find it bothersome that I have to have the image of a fat man with an erection in my head every time I read the topics of this forum. And it's not because I have a lack of humor.

 

All that said, what to do? Well, once upon a time I actually used to be a moderator of a forum that's for the most part now defunct but had many thousands of posts and a few hundred posters over the course of a couple years. In all that time I only had to censor one post (I believe in free speech and abhor censorship), that post being one filled with an extra special amount of vitriolic vulgarity. I also censored an avatar that had bouncing naked boobs in it. Why? Because we had kids on the forum, fostered mature respectful conversation there, and some women (and men) found it disrespectful. In the case of the former the guy was booted from the forums permanently, in the case of the latter I just asked the guy to change his avatar, he understood why, and did so. No biggie and no harm done. Perhaps that's what should be done here.

 

But then, what if Oby doesn't want to change it? Well.... then perhaps we'll have to live with it.

 

Oby, really.... even though I don't find your symbol offensive and it definitely isn't antisemitic, I can understand and respect that someone of the Jewish faith might have an issue with their holy symbol being defiled in some manner (as might a Christian have an issue with a lizard eye in the center of a crucifix). So on that note, I humbly ask you Oby, to respectfully change your avatar, as well as humbly ask the Cultist to stop waving his **** turd, and someone to change the thread title of the baseball thread to not include words that invoke images of an aroused fat man.

 

Edit: LOL... the five letter word that starts with 'P' that is used to name part of male genitalia is automatically censored on this forum, yet it's apparently ok to have words describing a fat dude with a hardon in a thread title. Heck, hardon isn't censored but **** is. There is great inconsistency here.
 

Edited April 8, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Zoraptor]

I think there's a quote from Stephen Fry about people getting offended. Ah yes:
 

It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so asterisking what.

Unless of course it's me being offended, in which case it's well reasoned and objectively based; and a massive deal that should be taken Seriously by everyone.

 

May have taken a certain amount of liberty with the end of the quote though. Anyone convinced Oby is a troll should stick him on ignore but most of all stop following him around giving him attention. If he is a troll you are giving him exactly what he wants, ie suppurating haemorrhoid class butthurt.
 
Besides, this is taking attention away from the foreign sponsored non popular terrorism taking place in Ukraine that is trying to set aside a democratically elected government and will hopefully be suppressed peacefully by the riot police as occupying buildings and being violent is evil and should be suppressed with the perpetrators being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Something something Russians are responsible for all that is evil in the universe but this isn't bigotry something something Euromaidan was completely different something something no I don't use my irony to put creaseys in my shirtys but maybe I should thanks for the suggestion.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yes, this thread became a lot more readable since Oby got the honor of the first person I put on ignore.

[Valsuelm]

Yes, this thread became a lot more readable since Oby got the honor of the first person I put on ignore.

 

Some do say that ignorance is bliss.

[BruceVC]

I think there's a quote from Stephen Fry about people getting offended. Ah yes:

 

It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so asterisking what.

 

Unless of course it's me being offended, in which case it's well reasoned and objectively based; and a massive deal that should be taken Seriously by everyone.

 

May have taken a certain amount of liberty with the end of the quote though. Anyone convinced Oby is a troll should stick him on ignore but most of all stop following him around giving him attention. If he is a troll you are giving him exactly what he wants, ie suppurating haemorrhoid class butthurt.

 

Besides, this is taking attention away from the foreign sponsored non popular terrorism taking place in Ukraine that is trying to set aside a democratically elected government and will hopefully be suppressed peacefully by the riot police as occupying buildings and being violent is evil and should be suppressed with the perpetrators being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Something something Russians are responsible for all that is evil in the universe but this isn't bigotry something something Euromaidan was completely different something something no I don't use my irony to put creaseys in my shirtys but maybe I should thanks for the suggestion.

 

I detect the slightest whiff of sarcasm in your post Zora?