Uganda Criminalizes Homosexuality

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Insider perspective?

[Valsuelm]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/24/world/africa/uganda-anti-gay-bill/index.html

 

What can I say...what can I say. Its appalling, shocking and unacceptable but the Ugandan president has signed the bill into law.

The West should  immediately cut any and all aid to Uganda. Apart from the obvious issues I have with this legislation there is the following

 

• The member states of the African Union are suppose to adhere to the African Charter of Human rights which says you can't discriminate against people around points like there sexual orientation. So this is yet another example of the failure of the AU to pressure countries to stick to the manifesto of the AU that they agreed to. No wonder Africa keeps failing to achieve its true potential
• I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past. Hypocrisy anyone ?

 

Well done Uganda for this  step into anachronism

It takes a great deal of self-righteousness and/or hubris to call for sanctions on any nation over anything. 'Aid' from the west is generally really just bribes and funding of the west's agenda's and interests. Uganda would do well if it could to not accept any outside 'aid', just about any nation would. Of course leaders of such nations would likely find themselves facing opposition funded by the west if such opposition could be found, which it usually can.

 

Africa fails to achieve it's true potential because outside interests keep it in the dark ages to further their own interests, in particular European interests, though Asia and the U.S. also have their hands dirty there.

[BruceVC]

Insider perspective?

 

That's a good link, its a little frustrating but I understand what the author is getting at. He says if the West wants to enforce punitive economic measures on Uganda there will be a violent backlash against the LBGT community as they will get blamed. That does makes sense so he wants the current Western corporations invested in Uganda to educate the Ugandan people that the homosexuality always existed in Uganda and wasn't something that the West brought into the country with there liberal lifestyle choices. Okay but I question if this will make any difference as once people are fixated on hating a particular minority group its takes a paradigm shift to change it.

 

But end of the day I have to support what's best for the LBGT community in Uganda, so as much as it pains me to accept it maybe there should no sanctions or measures against Uganda from the West

[BruceVC]

abe

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/24/world/africa/uganda-anti-gay-bill/index.html

 

What can I say...what can I say. Its appalling, shocking and unacceptable but the Ugandan president has signed the bill into law.

The West should  immediately cut any and all aid to Uganda. Apart from the obvious issues I have with this legislation there is the following

 

• The member states of the African Union are suppose to adhere to the African Charter of Human rights which says you can't discriminate against people around points like there sexual orientation. So this is yet another example of the failure of the AU to pressure countries to stick to the manifesto of the AU that they agreed to. No wonder Africa keeps failing to achieve its true potential
• I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past. Hypocrisy anyone ?

 

Well done Uganda for this  step into anachronism

It takes a great deal of self-righteousness and/or hubris to call for sanctions on any nation over anything. 'Aid' from the west is generally really just bribes and funding of the west's agenda's and interests. Uganda would do well if it could to not accept any outside 'aid', just about any nation would. Of course leaders of such nations would likely find themselves facing opposition funded by the west if such opposition could be found, which it usually can.

 

Africa fails to achieve it's true potential because outside interests keep it in the dark ages to further their own interests, in particular European interests, though Asia and the U.S. also have their hands dirty there.

 

 

Hubris. Self-righteousness. Wow those are big words to describe something that is regularly implemented against countries when they make decisions that are unacceptable to many countries in the world. Uganda already gets aid, 20 % of its budget is outside aid, and Uganda as every country does is reliant on international investment in order to grow there economy.

 

And when you say "because outside interests keep it in the dark ages to further their own interests" you sound like Robert Mugabe trying to justify why his economic polices have destroyed the Zimbabwean economy.

 

You don't know much about how certain countries in Africa operate or how there governments manage there economies do you?

[Orogun01]

Like every political campaign you're not targeting the opposition, you're going for the undecided. The middleman that has no opinion and no bone to pick, you sway public opinion in favor of LGTB and turn the violent criers into a vocal minority. I doubt that any president feels so strongly about LGTB rights that they would go to war against their own people and I sincerely doubt that the majority of Ugandans are violent bigots by nature.

[BruceVC]

Like every political campaign you're not targeting the opposition, you're going for the undecided. The middleman that has no opinion and no bone to pick, you sway public opinion in favor of LGTB and turn the violent criers into a vocal minority. I doubt that any president feels so strongly about LGTB rights that they would go to war against their own people and I sincerely doubt that the majority of Ugandans are violent bigots by nature.

 

Valid point, I suppose that's the best way to address this decision by the Ugandan government.

[AGX-17]

Wonder if it's popular with Ugandans generally.

The fact that you're even entertaining the idea that the masses of Africa are friendly to the concept of homosexuality would be laughable if it weren't so sad. Africa is as backwards as continents get. This is a landmass where people are still regularly burned alive for witchcraft.

 

In Africa's most westernized/"civilized" country, South Africa, "corrective rape" of lesbians is commonplace.

[BruceVC]

 

Wonder if it's popular with Ugandans generally.

The fact that you're even entertaining the idea that the masses of Africa are friendly to the concept of homosexuality would be laughable if it weren't so sad. Africa is as backwards as continents get. This is a landmass where people are still regularly burned alive for witchcraft.

 

In Africa's most westernized/"civilized" country, South Africa, "corrective rape" of lesbians is commonplace.

 

 

A correction there Agx as you've raised this before. Corrective rape happens but it is unequivocally condemned and the perpetrators of this heinous act of ignorance and bigotry prosecuted  when they are caught. And to be fair its not common 

Edited February 25, 2014 by BruceVC

[Hiro Protagonist]

A correction there Agx as you've raised this before. Corrective rape happens but it is unequivocally condemned and the perpetrators of this heinous act of ignorance and bigotry prosecuted  when they are caught. And to be fair its not common 

 

I'd never heard the term before. After doing a google search and from news reports, it doesn't seem to be uncommon. Quite the opposite. I'm not sure why you're downplaying this. I'm appalled by just reading one story that was reported last month and this practice continues in South Africa.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist

[BruceVC]

 

A correction there Agx as you've raised this before. Corrective rape happens but it is unequivocally condemned and the perpetrators of this heinous act of ignorance and bigotry prosecuted  when they are caught. And to be fair its not common 

 

I'd never heard the term before. After doing a google search and from news reports, it doesn't seem to be uncommon. Quite the opposite. I'm not sure why you're downplaying this. I'm appalled by just reading one story that was reported last month and this practice continues in South Africa.

 

 

 

A correction there Agx as you've raised this before. Corrective rape happens but it is unequivocally condemned and the perpetrators of this heinous act of ignorance and bigotry prosecuted  when they are caught. And to be fair its not common 

 

I'd never heard the term before. After doing a google search and from news reports, it doesn't seem to be uncommon. Quite the opposite. I'm not sure why you're downplaying this. I'm appalled by just reading one story that was reported last month and this practice continues in South Africa.

 

 

I'm not sure where you are going with this, you are trying to make a oblique point and find a connection with what is happening in Uganda that doesn't exist. The fact that you had never heard of corrective rape before highlights your lack credibility or knowledge in this topic

 

But if you had read some of my comments in the past around discrimination you would  have been aware of corrective rape as I raised it before as an example of what happens when people are allowed to act on bigotry. Also corrective rape is not legal in South Africa, it is a hate crime and comes from ignorance and homophobia. There is absolutely no correlation between the homophobic law that has been passed in Uganda and the fact that corrective rape is perpetuated in South Africa

 

What are you trying to say?

[Hiro Protagonist]

 

I'm not sure where you are going with this, you are trying to make a oblique point and find a connection with what is happening in Uganda that doesn't exist. The fact that you had never heard of corrective rape before highlights your lack credibility or knowledge in this topic

 

But if you had read some of my comments in the past around discrimination you would  have been aware of corrective rape as I raised it before as an example of what happens when people are allowed to act on bigotry. Also corrective rape is not legal in South Africa, it is a hate crime and comes from ignorance and homophobia. There is absolutely no correlation between the homophobic law that has been passed in Uganda and the fact that corrective rape is perpetuated in South Africa

 

What are you trying to say?

 

First. can you tidy up your post please? You've been asked before to avoid mutli-quoting as it becomes a mess when you're quoting multiple posts within multiple posts.

 

I'm not trying to find an oblique point at all. I was responding to your downplaying of AGX-17's post. I didn't even see that part of AGX-17's post until you quoted him and tried to downplay what was happening in South Africa. AGX-17 made an offhand comment, you've also taken it off topic and I'm responding to your posts.

 

Also, just because I have never heard of a term before and go and do some research doesn't have anything to do with lack of credibility or lack of knowledge on the subject. In the last hour or so, I did some reading up on various sites and studies that have been quoted, to get different accounts of what it is. Also you say it's not common? Everywhere I've read (news reports, studies, etc) state the opposite. You say the perpetrators are brought to justice when they are caught. I guess the operative word here is 'when' because it seems according to a lot of reports and studies, most are never caught due to various (sometimes eyebrow raising) reasons.

 

You attack me about credibility and lack of knowledge (an ad hominem attack) but don't refute the news article. There seems to be an issue with lack of credibility Bruce, and it's not me.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist

[BruceVC]

 

 

I'm not sure where you are going with this, you are trying to make a oblique point and find a connection with what is happening in Uganda that doesn't exist. The fact that you had never heard of corrective rape before highlights your lack credibility or knowledge in this topic

 

But if you had read some of my comments in the past around discrimination you would  have been aware of corrective rape as I raised it before as an example of what happens when people are allowed to act on bigotry. Also corrective rape is not legal in South Africa, it is a hate crime and comes from ignorance and homophobia. There is absolutely no correlation between the homophobic law that has been passed in Uganda and the fact that corrective rape is perpetuated in South Africa

 

What are you trying to say?

 

First. can you tidy up your post please? You've been asked before to avoid mutli-quoting as it becomes a mess when you're quoting multiple posts within multiple posts.

 

I'm not trying to find an oblique point at all. I was responding to your downplaying of AGX-17's post. I didn't even see that part of AGX-17's post until you quoted him and tried to downplay what was happening in South Africa. AGX-17 made an offhand comment, you've also taken it off topic and I'm responding to your posts.

 

Also, just because I have never heard of a term before and go and do some research doesn't have anything to do with lack of credibility or lack of knowledge on the subject. In the last hour or so, I did some reading up on various sites and studies that have been quoted, to get different accounts of what it is. Also you say it's not common? Everywhere I've read (news reports, studies, etc) state the opposite. You say the perpetrators are brought to justice when they are caught. I guess the operative word here is 'when' because it seems according to a lot of reports and studies, most are never caught due to various (sometimes eyebrow raising) reasons.

 

You attack me about credibility and lack of knowledge (an ad hominem attack) but don't refute the news article. There seems to be an issue with lack of credibility Bruce, and it's not me.

 

 

So you have no interest in discussing the homophobic laws in Uganda but now want to the debate the fact I seemed dismissive of Agx's post. That's fine lets do that . I am also glad you are so interested in the scourge of corrective rape in South Africa. You have never really shown any interest when I raised issues of social justice before or what are some of the consequences of bigotry. I can only assume this will translate to you supporting me when I raise awareness that people who make rape jokes on forums need to be condemned. So its good to have you aboard. Any raised awareness around rape is good for us dealing with this serious problem

 

So what exactly do you want to discuss about my comment, is the fact I said that corrective rape isn't common or the fact I said its illegal? Or is it fact I said that corrective rape is considered an abhorrent behavior perpetuated by people who are ignorant and homophobic? You say I downplayed his comment, in what way do you feel I downplayed his comment because that's seems to be your concern?

[Valsuelm]

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/24/world/africa/uganda-anti-gay-bill/index.html

 

What can I say...what can I say. Its appalling, shocking and unacceptable but the Ugandan president has signed the bill into law.

The West should  immediately cut any and all aid to Uganda. Apart from the obvious issues I have with this legislation there is the following

 

• The member states of the African Union are suppose to adhere to the African Charter of Human rights which says you can't discriminate against people around points like there sexual orientation. So this is yet another example of the failure of the AU to pressure countries to stick to the manifesto of the AU that they agreed to. No wonder Africa keeps failing to achieve its true potential
• I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past. Hypocrisy anyone ?

 

Well done Uganda for this  step into anachronism

It takes a great deal of self-righteousness and/or hubris to call for sanctions on any nation over anything. 'Aid' from the west is generally really just bribes and funding of the west's agenda's and interests. Uganda would do well if it could to not accept any outside 'aid', just about any nation would. Of course leaders of such nations would likely find themselves facing opposition funded by the west if such opposition could be found, which it usually can.

 

Africa fails to achieve it's true potential because outside interests keep it in the dark ages to further their own interests, in particular European interests, though Asia and the U.S. also have their hands dirty there.

 

 

Hubris. Self-righteousness. Wow those are big words to describe something that is regularly implemented against countries when they make decisions that are unacceptable to many countries in the world. Uganda already gets aid, 20 % of its budget is outside aid, and Uganda as every country does is reliant on international investment in order to grow there economy.

 

And when you say "because outside interests keep it in the dark ages to further their own interests" you sound like Robert Mugabe trying to justify why his economic polices have destroyed the Zimbabwean economy.

 

You don't know much about how certain countries in Africa operate or how there governments manage there economies do you?

 

 

Hardly big words.

 

Regularly implemented yes. It's the norm for sure. It's one of the prime tools of the neo-colonialists of the last half+ century. That does not make it right or any less self righteous or audacious, or at the higher echelons of the decision making often downright evil.

 

As far as Mugabe and Zimbabwe, while I certainly don't agree with Mugabe on many things, he's right if he's ever said something along the lines of what I did. His nation's economy is in shambles largely due to U.S., U.K., et al intervention in the form of sanctions and other punishments, which is downright disgusting at best. How dare Mugabe leave the Commonwealth!

 

I know African geopolitics pretty well, and how the strings are pulled there and elsewhere subtly and overtly quite well as well. You certainly have no monopoly on knowledge of Africa just because you happen to live in South Africa, while most of the rest of us on this board do not.

 

For better or worse Uganda should be left alone to make it's own laws. Rather than get bent out of shape about their violations of real or perceived rights, look in your own backyard. Many folks in many nations (including my own) would do better to do so than worry about internal laws of Uganda which are by and large benign on the world stage. There are worse and more oppressive laws of a variety of different types on the books in both the U.S., South Africa, and most if not all other 'western' nations than what folks are decrying currently in Uganda. And it's possibly the very efforts of some of the organizations that are leading the charge in decrying Uganda's policy that influenced it's implementing. There certainly has been some backlash in places other than Uganda to the global steamrolled agenda known as LGBT rights.

[BruceVC]

n

 

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/24/world/africa/uganda-anti-gay-bill/index.html

 

What can I say...what can I say. Its appalling, shocking and unacceptable but the Ugandan president has signed the bill into law.

The West should  immediately cut any and all aid to Uganda. Apart from the obvious issues I have with this legislation there is the following

 

• The member states of the African Union are suppose to adhere to the African Charter of Human rights which says you can't discriminate against people around points like there sexual orientation. So this is yet another example of the failure of the AU to pressure countries to stick to the manifesto of the AU that they agreed to. No wonder Africa keeps failing to achieve its true potential
• I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past. Hypocrisy anyone ?

 

Well done Uganda for this  step into anachronism

It takes a great deal of self-righteousness and/or hubris to call for sanctions on any nation over anything. 'Aid' from the west is generally really just bribes and funding of the west's agenda's and interests. Uganda would do well if it could to not accept any outside 'aid', just about any nation would. Of course leaders of such nations would likely find themselves facing opposition funded by the west if such opposition could be found, which it usually can.

Africa fails to achieve it's true potential because outside interests keep it in the dark ages to further their own interests, in particular European interests, though Asia and the U.S. also have their hands dirty there.

 

 

Hubris. Self-righteousness. Wow those are big words to describe something that is regularly implemented against countries when they make decisions that are unacceptable to many countries in the world. Uganda already gets aid, 20 % of its budget is outside aid, and Uganda as every country does is reliant on international investment in order to grow there economy.

 

And when you say "because outside interests keep it in the dark ages to further their own interests" you sound like Robert Mugabe trying to justify why his economic polices have destroyed the Zimbabwean economy.

 

You don't know much about how certain countries in Africa operate or how there governments manage there economies do you?

 

 

Hardly big words.

Regularly implemented yes. It's the norm for sure. It's one of the prime tools of the neo-colonialists of the last half+ century. That does not make it right or any less self righteous or audacious, or at the higher echelons of the decision making often downright evil.

 

As far as Mugabe and Zimbabwe, while I certainly don't agree with Mugabe on many things, he's right if he's ever said something along the lines of what I did. His nation's economy is in shambles largely due to U.S., U.K., et al intervention in the form of sanctions and other punishments, which is downright disgusting at best. How dare Mugabe leave the Commonwealth!

I know African geopolitics pretty well, and how the strings are pulled there and elsewhere subtly and overtly quite well as well. You certainly have no monopoly on knowledge of Africa just because you happen to live in South Africa, while most of the rest of us on this board do not.

For better or worse Uganda should be left alone to make it's own laws. Rather than get bent out of shape about their violations of real or perceived rights, look in your own backyard. Many folks in many nations (including my own) would do better to do so than worry about internal laws of Uganda which are by and large benign on the world stage. There are worse and more oppressive laws of a variety of different types on the books in both the U.S., South Africa, and most if not all other 'western' nations than what folks are decrying currently in Uganda. And it's possibly the very efforts of some of the organizations that are leading the charge in decrying Uganda's policy that influenced it's implementing. There certainly has been some backlash in places other than Uganda to the global steamrolled agenda known as LGBT rights.

 

 

Firstly I am an afro-optimist, but I am also a pragmatist about the political and economic challenger's that face the continent. I also didn't say "I'm only the informed person on these forums because I live in Africa". I am saying you aren't very informed if you think the reason that Africa is on the state its in is because of Western countries and Neo-Colonialism  ( what does that even mean in the context of issues that Africa faces) Give me some examples of where "Neo-Colonialism " is relevant in Africa today and is the reason that certain African countries haven't achieved there full potential. That term is thrown around whenever people want to deflect attention from addressing the systemic problems that exist in certain African countries because some leaders in Africa love hating the West and blaming there own failures on imperialism and "Neo-Colonialism"

Certain Western and Eastern corporations have played there part in negatively impacting the economies of African countries, I know that. But the primary reason for the failure of Africa to achieve its full potential are reasons like corruption, lack of good governance, 30 year dictatorship, lack of education, lack of economic transformation and failure to uplift the lives of there people when the leaders of some countries live in the lap of luxury.

 

Finally I love Africa and I absolutely believe it can achieve great economic heights. But I am also not a denialist who refuses to acknowledge where the real issues that face transformation are. And I can promise you that integrity of Western and Eastern corporations that invest in Africa are a small part of the problem.

[Hiro Protagonist]

So you have no interest in discussing the homophobic laws in Uganda but now want to the debate the fact I seemed dismissive of Agx's post. That's fine lets do that . I am also glad you are so interested in the scourge of corrective rape in South Africa. You have never really shown any interest when I raised issues of social justice before or what are some of the consequences of bigotry. I can only assume this will translate to you supporting me when I raise awareness that people who make rape jokes on forums need to be condemned. So its good to have you aboard. Any raised awareness around rape is good for us dealing with this serious problem

 

So what exactly do you want to discuss about my comment, is the fact I said that corrective rape isn't common or the fact I said its illegal? Or is it fact I said that corrective rape is considered an abhorrent behavior perpetuated by people who are ignorant and homophobic? You say I downplayed his comment, in what way do you feel I downplayed his comment because that's seems to be your concern?

 

 

Stop with the straw-man tactics Bruce. Of course I have an interest in the homophobic laws in Uganda. It's why I was following this thread. Also, how do you know I have never shown any interest in any social justice issues that you've raised? Do I have to reply to a thread to show I show an interest? Is not reading a thread enough? Just because I haven't responded to a thread doesn't mean I'm not taking an interest in it. Also, I don't know what your hang up is with RPGCodex. It seems you bring this up on every thread (exaggeration I know but it seems to becoming the norm). I'm not a member of that forum and I don't need to bring up the Codex or other forums to know that there's some lunatics on the internet. If the Codex is the worse you've seen, then you must live a sheltered life which can be a good thing. You're not subjected to stuff that you aren't comfortable to see. Again, that may be a good thing for you. Because there's some really horrible stuff out there and you haven't even scratched the surface. That's what the internet is or what it seems to be. A free for all - good and bad.

 

And I clearly said what I said about your comments. Also, you're being very evasive and still NOT refuted the news article I linked. How about being honest and state the facts instead of dancing around the issue. Is it some sort of national pride, that you take issue with people highlighting bad stuff with South Africa, like stuff that happens in the news link I quoted? Because I've noticed a trend with you highlighting the good stuff in South Africa but always getting defensive and downplaying the bad things that happen there. Oh no, it's not common at all... Seriously? I wonder if this sort of stuff in South Africa is happening in Uganda. One can only hope it's not.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist

[obyknven]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/24/world/africa/uganda-anti-gay-bill/index.html

 

What can I say...what can I say. Its appalling, shocking and unacceptable but the Ugandan president has signed the bill into law.

The West should  immediately cut any and all aid to Uganda. Apart from the obvious issues I have with this legislation there is the following

 

• The member states of the African Union are suppose to adhere to the African Charter of Human rights which says you can't discriminate against people around points like there sexual orientation. So this is yet another example of the failure of the AU to pressure countries to stick to the manifesto of the AU that they agreed to. No wonder Africa keeps failing to achieve its true potential
• I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past. Hypocrisy anyone ?

 

Well done Uganda for this  step into anachronism

Westlings! In Central African Republic in present time genocide happened, people kill and eat each other - everything is ok, West don't worry.

http://www.elconfidencial.com/mundo/2014-02-12/somos-ya-inmunes-a-los-genocidios-las-matanzas-en-la-republica-centroafricana_88136/

Uganda restrict holy gayness, few gays begin cry - it's terrible crime, West outraged!    Guys, all this gay rights activism looks idiotic, people on Earth have more serious problems, but your "democratic" governments avoid solve them, they imitate solving of imaginary problems instead.

[BruceVC]

 

So you have no interest in discussing the homophobic laws in Uganda but now want to the debate the fact I seemed dismissive of Agx's post. That's fine lets do that . I am also glad you are so interested in the scourge of corrective rape in South Africa. You have never really shown any interest when I raised issues of social justice before or what are some of the consequences of bigotry. I can only assume this will translate to you supporting me when I raise awareness that people who make rape jokes on forums need to be condemned. So its good to have you aboard. Any raised awareness around rape is good for us dealing with this serious problem

 

So what exactly do you want to discuss about my comment, is the fact I said that corrective rape isn't common or the fact I said its illegal? Or is it fact I said that corrective rape is considered an abhorrent behavior perpetuated by people who are ignorant and homophobic? You say I downplayed his comment, in what way do you feel I downplayed his comment because that's seems to be your concern?

 

 

Stop with the straw-man tactics Bruce. Of course I have an interest in the homophobic laws in Uganda. It's why I was following this thread. Also, how do you know I have never shown any interest in any social justice issues that you've raised? Do I have to reply to a thread to show I show an interest? Is not reading a thread enough? Just because I haven't responded to a thread doesn't mean I'm not taking an interest in it. Also, I don't know what your hang up is with RPGCodex. It seems you bring this up on every thread (exaggeration I know but it seems to becoming the norm). I'm not a member of that forum and I don't need to bring up the Codex or other forums to know that there's some lunatics on the internet. If the Codex is the worse you've seen, then you must live a sheltered life which can be a good thing. You're not subjected to stuff that you aren't comfortable to see. Again, that may be a good thing for you. Because there's some really horrible stuff out there and you haven't even scratched the surface. That's what the internet is or what it seems to be. A free for all - good and bad.

 

And I clearly said what I said about your comments. Also, you're being very evasive and still NOT refuted the news article I linked. How about being honest and state the facts instead of dancing around the issue. Is it some sort of national pride, that you take issue with people highlighting bad stuff with South Africa, like stuff that happens in the news link I quoted? Because I've noticed a trend with you highlighting the good stuff in South Africa but always getting defensive and downplaying the bad things that happen there. Oh no, it's not common at all... Seriously? I wonder if this sort of stuff in South Africa is happening in Uganda. One can only hope it's not.

 

 

Okay I apologize if I seemed rude or dismissive. I really didn't think you cared about these types of social issues and it seems your post was rather aimed at trying to catch me out than the real issue at hand. I also got annoyed when it seemed that you were suggesting I don't take the issue of corrective rape seriously

 

Corrective rape happens in  South Africa, the article is correct. I never said it doesn't. I love my country but of course we face real social problems. In fact one of the main reasons for me being so concerned with bigotry and discrimination is because of the fact I live in South Africa, I have travelled extensively and worked in Africa and I have seen first hand what happens when people act on certain prejudices

 

The article says that a rape happens in South Africa very 17 seconds  and 500,000 rapes a year. Real and accurate rape statistics are hard to get but the number I base my discussions on are not as high as that

 

http://africacheck.org/spot_check/sa-radio-stations-rape-stats-factually-incorrect/

 

If you take the article though as completely accurate then it says there are 10 cases of corrective rape a week which is 520 cases a year. If you calculate that as a percentage of the total rape cases this is only 1/10 of 1 % ( 520/500000 * 100) of the total number of rapes committed in South Africa. That's why I said its not common, I was referring to the overall rape statistics

 

But I don't want to distract people from the crime and seriousness of corrective rape. Its a terrible outcome of the extreme actions of people who are homophobic and sexist and people living in South Africa think it is reprehensible.

[TrashMan]

 

Wonder if it's popular with Ugandans generally.

 

It is broadly supported. But what has that got  to do with morality of putting people in jail for consensual sex? In Rwanda the majority of people also supported the genocide and in Cambodia the Khmer Rouge also had popular support.

 

 

I believe that the retort to that would be that morality is subjective, and that humans don't have any inherent rights.

 

Of course, I don't believe that, but no one is asking me to make laws.

 

 

It is a oxymoron in some ways.

If you truly believe in a specific morality you feel compelled to enforce it, even tough forcing ones beliefs and values on someone can in itself be inherently immoral.

 

In other words, everyone is self-righteous. Everyone. No exceptions.

Edited February 25, 2014 by TrashMan

[BruceVC]

 

 

Wonder if it's popular with Ugandans generally.

 

It is broadly supported. But what has that got  to do with morality of putting people in jail for consensual sex? In Rwanda the majority of people also supported the genocide and in Cambodia the Khmer Rouge also had popular support.

 

 

I believe that the retort to that would be that morality is subjective, and that humans don't have any inherent rights.

 

Of course, I don't believe that, but no one is asking me to make laws.

 

 

It is a oxymoron in some ways.

If you truly believe in a specific morality you feel compelled to enforce it, even tough forcing ones beliefs and values on someone can in itself be inherently immoral.

 

In other words, everyone is self-righteous. Everyone. No exceptions.

 

 

I want to ask you a very important question, do you personally think its right to put someone in jail for life for having consensual same sex?

[Malcador]

The fact that you're even entertaining the idea that the masses of Africa are friendly to the concept of homosexuality would be laughable if it weren't so sad. Africa is as backwards as continents get. This is a landmass where people are still regularly burned alive for witchcraft.

 

In Africa's most westernized/"civilized" country, South Africa, "corrective rape" of lesbians is commonplace.

Well, actually it was a fairly loaded question.

[Mor]

In Africa's most westernized/"civilized" country, South Africa, "corrective rape" of lesbians is commonplace.

Sorry, I don't want to diminish the severity of any kind of rape, but "corrective"?! It made me think of old porn movie with cheesy music/lines. With the main actor wearing a ridicules costume flashing his badge, saying "Hi, I am the 'corrective' sex inspector" and boom chicka Wow Wow   Edited February 25, 2014 by Mor

[BruceVC]

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/24/world/africa/uganda-anti-gay-bill/index.html

 

What can I say...what can I say. Its appalling, shocking and unacceptable but the Ugandan president has signed the bill into law.

The West should  immediately cut any and all aid to Uganda. Apart from the obvious issues I have with this legislation there is the following

 

• The member states of the African Union are suppose to adhere to the African Charter of Human rights which says you can't discriminate against people around points like there sexual orientation. So this is yet another example of the failure of the AU to pressure countries to stick to the manifesto of the AU that they agreed to. No wonder Africa keeps failing to achieve its true potential
• I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past. Hypocrisy anyone ?

 

Well done Uganda for this  step into anachronism

Westlings! In Central African Republic in present time genocide happened, people kill and eat each other - everything is ok, West don't worry.

http://www.elconfidencial.com/mundo/2014-02-12/somos-ya-inmunes-a-los-genocidios-las-matanzas-en-la-republica-centroafricana_88136/

Uganda restrict holy gayness, few gays begin cry - it's terrible crime, West outraged!    Guys, all this gay rights activism looks idiotic, people on Earth have more serious problems, but your "democratic" governments avoid solve them, they imitate solving of imaginary problems instead.

 

 

Nah, its not that the West doesn't care about Cannibalism.  But in the example you mentioned the people were only eating Russians, so there was no need to make a big deal about it

[pmp10]

I'm wondering if the new Cold War will be a sort of kulturkampf between 'Western' enlightenment values and a new Eastern conservatism that allows for an Orthodox / Muslim world-view.

 

I hope not.

There isn't really any ideological material for a new cold war.

The difference between western liberalism and eastern conservatism is a simple matter of economics and population growth.

Countries that can afford emigrants will gladly take them.

Countries that cannot afford them will go back to the 'you shall procreate or else' conservatism.

[Mor]

I agree that by large West vs East is defined either by economics(industrialized countries vs developing countries) or development index.

 

Although I would be careful to generalize it as "western liberalism vs eastern conservatism". While the dentition of who is liberal or conservative is very subjective (e.g. with many western countries or even individual countries polarized between the two definitions e.g. US democrats vs republicans) I think that calling places where they practice corrective rape, genital mutilation, honor killings etc simply as conservatives leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Malcador]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uganda-tabloid-publishes-top-homosexuals-list-after-anti-gay-law-signing-1.2550260?cmp=fbtl

 

So absurd it's actually kind of funny.  Wonder if they have a Homosexual Watch List too, for travellers.