Armour & weapon designs (part V).

[Fluff]

Something that is historically accurate that you never really see in games that often take influence from historical armor (whether it be 100% authentic or more..fantasy-myth; ie viking armor) is classical lighter chain armors underneath cloths. It could be used for both lower level gear or just a lighter armor.

http://www.infohow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MA-13th-Century-Arms-Armor.jpg is a generic example.

 

I of course wouldn't want this to be the only type..but it would be some nice variation of the generic done to death systems of.

Leather->Studded->Chain->blah blah blah systems. are tired, and rather bland honestly, having variety within the types of armor is much better if possible (multiple types of armor/styles within similar tiers)

[Jarrakul]

Something that is historically accurate that you never really see in games that often take influence from historical armor (whether it be 100% authentic or more..fantasy-myth; ie viking armor) is classical lighter chain armors underneath cloths. It could be used for both lower level gear or just a lighter armor.

http://www.infohow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MA-13th-Century-Arms-Armor.jpg is a generic example.

 

I of course wouldn't want this to be the only type..but it would be some nice variation of the generic done to death systems of.

Leather->Studded->Chain->blah blah blah systems. are tired, and rather bland honestly, having variety within the types of armor is much better if possible (multiple types of armor/styles within similar tiers)

 

Agreed. I'd love to see multiple types of "equivalent" armors, even if their stats are totally identical (I have an inordinate love of purely cosmetic choices). I do understand this would take a decent bit of extra artist time for relatively little benefit, though, so I don't really expect to see it.

[Fluff]

Agreed. I'd love to see multiple types of "equivalent" armors, even if their stats are totally identical (I have an inordinate love of purely cosmetic choices). I do understand this would take a decent bit of extra artist time for relatively little benefit, though, so I don't really expect to see it.

 

Yeah, I've seen it done in a few games before.. but I understand that with it being a kickstarter driven game on a limited budget that it is unlikely.

A man can dream though.

[Karranthain]

 

Something that is historically accurate that you never really see in games that often take influence from historical armor (whether it be 100% authentic or more..fantasy-myth; ie viking armor) is classical lighter chain armors underneath cloths. It could be used for both lower level gear or just a lighter armor.

http://www.infohow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MA-13th-Century-Arms-Armor.jpg is a generic example.

 

I of course wouldn't want this to be the only type..but it would be some nice variation of the generic done to death systems of.

Leather->Studded->Chain->blah blah blah systems. are tired, and rather bland honestly, having variety within the types of armor is much better if possible (multiple types of armor/styles within similar tiers)

 

Agreed. I'd love to see multiple types of "equivalent" armors, even if their stats are totally identical (I have an inordinate love of purely cosmetic choices). I do understand this would take a decent bit of extra artist time for relatively little benefit, though, so I don't really expect to see it.

 

 

I'd love that too (though, ideally, there'd be slight variance between those "equivalent" pieces).

 

Check out this topic for some ideas.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Karranthain

[quest1on]

Something that is historically accurate that you never really see in games that often take influence from historical armor (whether it be 100% authentic or more..fantasy-myth; ie viking armor) is classical lighter chain armors underneath cloths. It could be used for both lower level gear or just a lighter armor.

http://www.infohow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MA-13th-Century-Arms-Armor.jpg is a generic example.

 

I of course wouldn't want this to be the only type..but it would be some nice variation of the generic done to death systems of.

Leather->Studded->Chain->blah blah blah systems. are tired, and rather bland honestly, having variety within the types of armor is much better if possible (multiple types of armor/styles within similar tiers)

I think the biggest problem with low level armours in game is the fact that they generally didn't exist in the real world. First of all, people don't usually realize how protective the everyday clothing of several (like, four at least) layers of thick wool was against cuts (but didn't realy work that well with stabs, that's why prefered civilian weapons were daggers and thrusting swords). Swords have their center of percussion close to the hilt so they rarely could chop straight trough, rather sliced the softer, more vulnerable parts of the body like hands and necks/faces. The second thing is that whith limited financial resources, you want every florin/guilder/whatever kind of used currency to be well spend, so you buy less of, but better armour. I can't find now the best picture ilustrating it with some 15th century halbardier in sallet, bevor and gauntlets as his only armour, insted of full leather armour or some ****. But I remember the picture is somewhere there in the interwebs.

Edited April 3, 2014 by quest1on

[quest1on]

It's not exactly the one I thought about, but the guy on the right ilustrates my point: state of the art protection of vulnerable parts of the body and just some ordinary purpoint/arming doublet instead of some imaginary leather pseudo-plate on the chest.

[Jarrakul]

So, what you're saying is, platemail bikinis actually make sense?

 

I kid, of course. but that does come disturbingly close.

[quest1on]

I'm sayin' if you can half-ass two things, better full-ass one thing (in context of arms & armour).

[Lephys]

So as long as the platemail bikinis cover the entire arse, we're golden? Got it.

 

(I jest... Your point is good, )

[quest1on]

Okay, so to move y'all in this thread, here are memoirs of sir John Smith (yes, the one who shagged Pocahontas) from the times he served under Habsburgs as mercenary:

 

"That to delight the Ladies, who did long to see some court-like pastime, the Lord Turbashaw did dene any Captaine, that had the command of a Company, who durst combate with him for his head: The matter being discussed, it was accepted, but so many questions grew for the undertaking, it was decided by lots, which fell upon Captaine Smith, before spoken of.

1st duel
Turbashaw with a noise of Howboyes entred the field well mounted and armed; on his shoulders were fixed a paire of great wings, compacted of Eagles feathers within a ridge of silver, richly garnished with gold and precious stones, a Ianizary before him, bearing his Lance, on each side another leading his horse; where long hee stayed not, ere Smith with a noise of Trumpets, only a page bearing his Lance, passing by him with a courteous salute, tooke his ground with such goode successe, that at the sound of the charge, he passed the Turke thorow the sight of his Beaver, face, head and all, that he fell dead to the ground, where alighting and unbracing his Helmet, cut off his head, and the Turkes tooke his body; and so returned without any hurt at all. The head hee presented to the Lord Moses, the Generall, who kindly accepted it, and with joy to the whole armie he was generally welcomed.

 

2nd duel

The death of this Captaine so swelled in the heart of one Grualgo, his vowed friend, as rather inraged with madnesse than choller, he directed a particular challenge to the Conquerour, to regaine his friends head, or lose his owne, with his horse and Armour for advantage, which according to his desire was the next day undertaken: as before upon the sound of the Trumpets, their Lances flew in peeces upon a cleare passage, but the Turke was neere unhorsed. Their Pistolls was the next, which marked Smith upon the placard; but the next shot the Turke was so wounded in the left arme, that being not able to rule his horse, and defend himselfe, he was throwne to the ground, and so bruised with the fall, that he lost his head, as his friend before him; with his horse and Armour; but his body and his rich apparcll was sent backe to the Towne.


3rd duel
The challenge presently was accepted by Bonny Mulgro.
The next day both the Champions entring the field as before, each discharging their Pistoll having no Lances, but such martiall weapons as the defendant appointed, no hurt was done; their Battle-axes *was the next, whose piercing bils made sometime the one, sometime the other to have scarce sense to keepe their saddles, specially the Christian received such a blow that he lost his Battleaxe, and failed not much to have fallen after it, whereat the supposing conquering Turk, had a great shout from the Rampiers. The Turk prosecuted his advantage to the uttermost of his power; yet the other, what by the readinesse of his horse, and his judgement and dexterity in such a businesse, beyond all mens expectation, by Gods assistance, not onely avoided the Turkes violence, but having drawne his Faulchion, pierced the Turke so under the Culets thorow backe and body, that although he alighted from his horse, he stood not long ere hee lost his head, as the rest had done."

[Calmar]

I like realistic armor, but the more nitpicky the the discussion becomes, the less fun it it. Why don't we just trust the devs to create armor that doens't look silly? I mean, IF they want totally unrealistic stuff in their game really hard, they'll include it no matter what.

[Gavinfoxx]

I want to know... has anyone talked about swords on the back, and the drawing of them?

 

Like, mentioned this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYiXEPHLeUY

 

And, a way to get over this issue:

 

 

Or possibly specialized gear, techniques, and animations that are more like the stuff seen in this video:

 

 

So... if characters are going to have huge swords on their backs cause it looks cool, can some effort be put into the sheathe or how they draw it and ready the weapon, so it isn't just 'hollywood'? Has this been talked about? Has something like this been done?

Edited April 19, 2014 by Gavinfoxx

[Karranthain]

Resting the greatsword on the shoulder is a simple yet elegant solution:

 

 

 

Not to mention it looks cool.

 

[Calmar]

Shoulder eats crossguard!

 

But it looks cool!

Where is this picture from?

[Labadal]

Resting the greatsword on the shoulder is a simple yet elegant solution:

 

 

 

Not to mention it looks cool.

 

What if you accidentally poke someone in the eye. Edited April 20, 2014 by Labadal

[Karranthain]

Shoulder eats crossguard!

 

But it looks cool!

Where is this picture from?

 

It's from Dark Souls.

 

What if you accidentally poke someone in the eye.

 

What do you mean accidentally?

 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Karranthain

[Gavinfoxx]

...That's what those parts are designed for? That's why they are often sharpened?  The entire sword is an integrated weapons system...

[Woldan]

Greatswords were often carried on the shoulder, there weren't many scabbards for them. For example the Doppelsöldner from the 30 years war carried their greatsword just like this: (The little Katzbalger shortsword is carried on the hip in a nice scabbard) 

 

 

  

Edited April 23, 2014 by Woldan

[Jumble Murdersense]

Something that is historically accurate that you never really see in games that often take influence from historical armor (whether it be 100% authentic or more..fantasy-myth; ie viking armor) is classical lighter chain armors underneath cloths. It could be used for both lower level gear or just a lighter armor.

http://www.infohow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MA-13th-Century-Arms-Armor.jpg is a generic example.

 

I of course wouldn't want this to be the only type..but it would be some nice variation of the generic done to death systems of.

Leather->Studded->Chain->blah blah blah systems. are tired, and rather bland honestly, having variety within the types of armor is much better if possible (multiple types of armor/styles within similar tiers)

 

What I'd like is for each type (or material) to have its own pros and cons, so the choice wouldn't be simple. One piece wouldn't necessarily be better than the other, as it is with the rags -> leather > chainmail etc system.

 

For example chainmail might offer good protection against slashing and piercing damage but do little to lessen crushing damage, while still being light (and if stuff degrades, it wouldn't last as long as other types). This way it is more interesting to match armour to your character, by considering where you want what types of protection, and what materials best fit the job.

[Elerond]

 

[Karranthain]

 

Something that is historically accurate that you never really see in games that often take influence from historical armor (whether it be 100% authentic or more..fantasy-myth; ie viking armor) is classical lighter chain armors underneath cloths. It could be used for both lower level gear or just a lighter armor.

http://www.infohow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MA-13th-Century-Arms-Armor.jpg is a generic example.

 

I of course wouldn't want this to be the only type..but it would be some nice variation of the generic done to death systems of.

Leather->Studded->Chain->blah blah blah systems. are tired, and rather bland honestly, having variety within the types of armor is much better if possible (multiple types of armor/styles within similar tiers)

 

What I'd like is for each type (or material) to have its own pros and cons, so the choice wouldn't be simple. One piece wouldn't necessarily be better than the other, as it is with the rags -> leather > chainmail etc system.

 

For example chainmail might offer good protection against slashing and piercing damage but do little to lessen crushing damage, while still being light (and if stuff degrades, it wouldn't last as long as other types). This way it is more interesting to match armour to your character, by considering where you want what types of protection, and what materials best fit the job.

 

 

Indeed. Though it should be noted that plate armour would be considered superior in most cases, as it was really the pinnacle of personal protection (and chainmail's actually more cumbersome to wear!).

 

On the other hand, you wouldn't want to wear plate when fighting in a desert.

 

That said, I do hope that the armour progression isn't as simple as it was in BG2, for an instance. It'd be really nice if we'd be encourged mix and match a little bit more, depending on the circumstances.

[Tsuga C]

<redhead shots>

I have to wonder if hair that long sometimes gets caught up in the armor. Perhaps plate isn't so bad, but about chain?

[Lephys]

I have to wonder if hair that long sometimes gets caught up in the armor. Perhaps plate isn't so bad, but about chain?

I figure for practicality's sake, someone with long hair would probably tie/braid it (just something to keep it from getting snagged in nooks and crannies), or at least wear some cloth cap/wrap thing under the helmet (if they're wearing a helmet).

 

I'm curious how this was handled, though, in actual history/record.

[Nonek]

 

I have to wonder if hair that long sometimes gets caught up in the armor. Perhaps plate isn't so bad, but about chain?

I figure for practicality's sake, someone with long hair would probably tie/braid it (just something to keep it from getting snagged in nooks and crannies), or at least wear some cloth cap/wrap thing under the helmet (if they're wearing a helmet).

 

I'm curious how this was handled, though, in actual history/record.

 

 

Probably shorn. Heat in a helmet is allready quite stifling with the arming cap or coif and that's without extra hair, add to that the lice and filth in a battle camp, the fact that bathing wasn't a fashionable thing and no sane opponent would look at long hair as anything but a useful handhold. I think most sensible knights would favour something like the Roundhead or Norman bowl haircut for these reasons.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Nonek

[Lephys]

Probably shorn. Heat in a helmet is allready quite stifling with the arming cap or coif and that's without extra hair, add to that the lice and filth in a battle camp, the fact that bathing wasn't a fashionable thing and no sane opponent would look at long hair as anything but a useful handhold. I think most sensible knights would favour something like the Roundhead or Norman bowl haircut for these reasons.

Yeah. As someone with approximately shoulder-length hair (and deceptively thick, at that), I can attest to the added heat of hair (even not confined to a helmet or cap).

 

I kinda figured that any actual historical instances of that whole Hollywood "young lordling with shoulder-length, Heath-Ledger-ish hair riding into battle in full plate" image were pretty much only spoiled noblefolk who really didn't see battle very often (and/or had their own lavish tents in the camps, with personal attendants and bathers and such) and simply rode around in the armor as much more of a symbol than a necessity.

 

I figure there were some who didn't have to deal, as much, with the practicality of such things, and they were the only ones who didn't just lop off the hair.

 

Basically luxury. 8P