Ukraine burns

[obyknven]

Everyone love Putin now! Cool guys support Putin! Be cool!

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/02/26/rand-paul-defends-putin-earns-scorn-from-the-right/

 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/.premium-1.576927

 

http://admin.savage.wp.wnd.com/files/2014/02/022714-SAVAGE-ROBERTS-PT-1.mp3

 

http://youtu.be/z5xUMMOPUHg

[obyknven]

Pro-Ukrainian Terrorists begin shoting in Crimea. Russian troops yet not sended here, everyoone await Putin's Order. Crimean selfdefence  control situation.

http://youtu.be/aMvgzsTDReE

[obyknven]

"Russian occupants" force Crimeans make photos together.

 

Kharkiv. Citizens rebels against Maidan and Nazi from Right sector! They win! Waaagh!

http://youtu.be/zGNAQi7o0Ic

[obyknven]

Nazi terrorists from Right sector in Crimea.

[obyknven]

Leader of Right Sector  propose alliance to international terrorist  and wahhabit Doku Umarow in war against Russians.  Part of current Ukrainian government are members of Right Sector. Kremlin await comments from EU and US about this.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/721610

 

“Ukrainian neo-fascist Yarosh has sought the help of terrorist Umarov. Does the West put its bets on such ‘democrats’ in Ukraine? Will there be a reaction from there [the West]?” the Russian Foreign Ministry’s commissioner for human rights, democracy and the rule of law Konstantin Dolgov wrote on Twitter on Saturday, March 1.

[HoonDing]

Better stop them right now before they march all the way to Brussels Berlin.

[obyknven]

"Evil Russian occupant" Member of Crimean selfdefence force Crimean woman to bow.

[obyknven]

 

Muricans are Ukrainians today. The next is pro-Russian Separatism in Alaska   :lol:

[Fighter]

Here is a good video by BBC about far right groups on Kiev streets and in politics right now.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26394980

[Zoraptor]

I am happy that you think that people like those in Caucasus should be free to choose who to join. Though Russian war in the Caucasus show that they don't really care about that.

Nobody cares about that, they care based on geopolitical goals. If they talk humanitarian or somesuch it's sugar coating for the public. Besides, it's by no means certain that you'd get a majority for secession even if you could hold a plebiscite on it, the autonomous Chechnya was an absolute disaster- for the Chechens.

 

Indeed it is rather humdrum and par for the course for you to deflect to the west again. Kind like with Robbed Cossack's before crying bias.

Deflection? Nah, it's pointing out that you can level the charges against everyone, you're just being selective on who is being accused. US supports separatists in Iranian Baluchistan, supported South Sudan, supported Kosovo. That's an enemy country, an enemy country (Sudan) and an ally of an enemy country (Serbia/ Russia).

 

Countries will do whatever they want and can get away with to expand their influence or reduce a rival's whether they be Russia or the US. That's the answer. May not be the one you're looking for, but it's the one based in reality rather than, per John Kerry, Rocky IV.

 

It is a gross simplification, especially the part where you make a false equivalence between the circumstances and the action taken by Russia and NATO. So I will reiterate what I said in my previous post, which despite being the first two goggle post result provide more nuance on the matter.

Sigh. You didn't read the link I posted, did you? And I see what numbersman says is, as it usually is, true- you're going to hide your opinion behind the bulwark of authority by, er, citing the first two things you find on google that support your view. Okey dokey, I'll run through Mr Hitchens' points, because he was a momentous goober with all the authority of stating a position, and stating it loudly and repeatedly. Still can't be bothered with the other one.

 

1) No Russia never had any interest in Abkhaz or Ossetia indepenence prior to the USSR breaking up. It'd be like Surrey county in England getting upset about bits of Cumberland County being given to Northumberland or Lancaster Counties. In the USSR they were part of the same country, the SSR divisions were administrative only. Classic non sequitur.

 

2)"Kosovo [..] was never manipulated as part of the partition or intervention plan of another country." Well yes, it was never manipulated by the Ottoman Empire. Oh wait, yes it was, for best part of 500 years. And yes, the partition was a plan, of the US/ NATO. They didn't wake up one day and find Kosovo was suddenly 'independent', they actively supported it with aid and political recognition. Ignorance, muppetry

 

2a) "Whatever may be said of Georgia's incautious policy toward secessionism within its own internationally recognized borders". There was extensive ethnic cleansing in Georgia, 100k + Ossetians ethnically cleansed- according to Human Rights Watch, not the Russians or any other interested party. To give the scale, SOssetia's current population is only around 50k ish. Of course, being Georgia this is "incautious secession policy". Specious, fatuous, selective/ ignorant, propaganda.

 

3) The Georgians deliberately killed Russian peacekeepers. You don't need a UN resolution to respond to that. OSCE itself agreed to that, indeed OSCE's main gripe was disproportionate response, not the fact there was one. Specious, muppetry, non sequitur.

 

4) Particularly amusing, since Russia has sponsored independence status for both Abkhazia and SOssetia. And, as comparison, EU members of NATO recognise NATO creation, news at 11. Incorrect, muppetry.

 

5) Oh those sainted westerners, always with the best of intentions! Oh those hideous eastern beasts, with their squinty eyes and inscrutable morals! Of course, those sainted westerners will never agree that Kosovo's oppressed Serbian minority should have the right to rejoin Serbia...

 

6) Long meditated is complete asterisks. Again, the OSCE report (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe) found there was no evidence of a troop build up by Russia prior to Georgia's- deliberate, planned- invasion, indeed most of the heavy fighting for the first 2-3 days was carried out by the SOssetians themselves, in Tskinvali. Incorrect, also use of shall we say "deflection".

 

Your articles are crap, rubbish. Penned by morons in ignorance or out of malice, unbalanced, specious, selective.

[Wrath of Dagon]

American war against Serbia was just pure Democrat party stupidity, fighting people who were semi-friendly and in any case not a threat to us to help the global Islamist movement. If this explanation doesn't seem plausible to some, consider that the same administration invaded Haiti to replace a somewhat pro-American government with a viciously anti-American one. Don't see how any of that justifies what's clearly Russian aggression in this case.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Wrath of Dagon

[Sarex]

@Zoraptor

 

You have the patience of a saint.

[Hildegard]

Nazi terrorists from Right sector in Crimea.

 

 

In fact, they're evil Nazi terrorists involved in a Zionist conspiracy against the Slav nations. 

[obyknven]

 

In fact, they're evil Nazi terrorists involved in a Zionist conspiracy against the Slav nations. 

 

True story bro. Leader of Right secror is Dmitro Yarosh.

Yarosh is Jewish family, originated from Yiddish  word  "yoyresh" - heir.

http://www.yiddishdictionaryonline.com/

http://search.ancestry.myfamily.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=REF_GUIDES&rank=1&sbo=t&gsbco=Sweden&gsln=Yarosh&gss=angs-c&so=2

Also he affiliated with SBU, probably he is just agent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Service_of_Ukraine

 The SBU closely tied with CIA and Yarosh is main architector of Euromaidan. Just imagine, jewish spy  play role of Nazi antisemitic leader and overthrow democratically elected Ukrainian president by hands of  retarded nazi mobs. It's just illustration how these movements ( and whole "Euromaidan" )  looks artifical.

 

UPD. Another  report about close relations between Ukrianian Nazi and CIA.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/02/20/cia-use-nazi-strategy-ukrainian-right-wing-nationalists-unabated-since-cold-war.html

Edited March 1, 2014 by obyknven

[Walsingham]

Is it just me, or does anyone get a bizarre 'rape-y' vibe from oby's posts.

[Walsingham]

@Zoraptor

 

You have the patience of a saint.

 

And the knees of a spaniel.

[obyknven]

From Russian Internets.

 

Hi Guys! Do you want moar autonomy?

 

Suddenly good mannered tourists

 

 

[Darkpriest]

To be honest I am fairly sure that this whole deal will end up with division of Ukraine and Crimea joining Russia.

 

Russians have too much to lose there, the naval base of Black Sea's Fleet is just too much to endanger for Russians from their military point of view. Only someone naive or without knowledge would think that Russians would just look at that passively.

 

Sure, it does not look nice and brings unneeded tensions in the whole region, waking up nightmares of Soviet Union days. IMO all should take a chill pill and then let it be decided by people in public voting, if they want to leave Ukraine or not. It's already a region with a lot of autonomy. 

 

In the end, nothing big will happen, no major conflict will erupt. I suspect it will end up in diplomatic punches and pushes, but eventually they will put a blind eye on Russians staying in Crimea and will get the promise of them leaving once the voting will take place, but since the population of Crimea will most likely vote pro-Russia, the case will be closed and Russians will stay there.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Darkpriest

[Mor]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

 

Duma approves military action.

Ukraine army on full alert as Russia backs sending troops

 

This is very concerning, but I still think that Troll Putin intentionally creating a crisis, the current protest are nothing compared to several month of Pro-Western protests. Russian goal is either to create a pliable government to its policy by deepening Ukrainian economical crisis (hard to find investors in such time) or by increasing Pro-Russian votes in the upcoming election by fear mongering and creating artificial division along sectarian lines as they did so well in Syria(Making into alawites vs sunni, instead of corrupt leader). After all this whole thing started as demonstrations against soviet era corruption and economy(and Russian influence).

 

But what I take away after that analysis is the knowledge that Russia means for every single one of its Western (as in direction) neighbours to be weak, supine, and fractured.

 

How ought those neighbours, and those looking to engage with them, feel about Russia? Like Russia are a screaming pack of ****. Quite frankly.

Which in turns play to the hands of Putin Pravda* that everyone are "biased" against them...

 

* Pravda is news outlet from the soviet times, whose name is literaly 'truth'. Russian popular saying was that in Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no Truth.

 

 

I am happy that you think that people like those in Caucasus should be free to choose who to join. Though Russian war in the Caucasus show that they don't really care about that.

Nobody cares about that, they care based on geopolitical goals. If they talk humanitarian or somesuch it's sugar coating for the public. Besides, it's by no means certain that you'd get a majority for secession even if you could hold a plebiscite on it, the autonomous Chechnya was an absolute disaster- for the Chechens.

 

Again you choose to avoiding commenting on the current issue at hand of possible Russian invasion in Crimea region of Ukraine i.e. making territorial gains if their bid for pliable Ukrainian government to pro-Russian policy and, potentially subordinating Ukraine economically and politically. And or possible consequence of it.

 

First you deflect by crying west(much like most of your posts), then that people should be able to choose where they want to join. (a good argument for Russian interest in Eastern Ukraine where there is a large Russian speaking population), but once I mention places such as Russian Caucasus(e.g. Chechnya) separatism (which was devastated by Russian interest), you start to play another tune, now it's ok as long as in your opinion it wouldn't be absolute disaster.

 

So far all you have been doing is to sugar coat and deflect from Russian systemic self interested trouble making in the region.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Mor

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So what is going on in the Ukraine? Did someone leave the oven on?

Edited March 2, 2014 by KaineParker

[Zoraptor]

I doubt there will be much violence, fortunately. Mainly because I doubt Ukraine feels it can rely on its own army to fight reliably enough, there are already a lot of rumours about defections. And I cannot see any of the western countries fighting Russia for Ukraine which is what it would take- unless they go for all of Ukraine, which seems very unlikely and would almost certainly be a momentous mistake. RT etc are running lots of video of pro Russia demos in Donetsk/ D'trovsk/ Kharkov/ Mariupol etc...

 

Pretty surprised Putin has gone all in so soon. Would definitely have thought there'd be more stage managing before anything happened. At the moment the contrast with Obama could not be more stark, albeit Obama's wobble was over a far more peripheral and distant issue, and Putin is likely to get broad support from population and politicians.

 

Is it just me, or does anyone get a bizarre 'rape-y' vibe from oby's posts.

I don't know about that, but he does seem to be enjoying himself rather too much considering things could get very serious, very fast.

 

And I have the knees of an emu, not a spaniel.

[Mor]

Russians have too much to lose there, the naval base of Black Sea's Fleet is just too much to endanger for Russians from their military point of view. Only someone naive or without knowledge would think that Russians would just look at that passively.

Russian naval base is leased to Russia for at least several decades, in return for semi-mutually beneficial gas deal to both Russia and Ukraine.

 

I am not sure why you decided that it was in danger, but I am certain that Russian wish to keep its real estate in Ukraine isn't a causes beli to invasion.

[Zoraptor]

Again you choose to avoiding commenting on the current issue at hand of possible Russian invasion in Crimea region of Ukraine i.e. making territorial gains if their bid for pliable Ukrainian government to pro-Russian policy and, potentially subordinating Ukraine economically and politically. And or possible consequence of it.

 

I answered it already. I'm perfectly happy for eastern Ukraine to rejoin Russia- or become The Republic of Novorussia for that matter- if it represents the will of the majority of the people. Even pro western news outlets suggest that is so for Crimea, at very least, and quite possibly so for much of the rest of the south and east. That isn't be any means perfect of course, but then while the new government talked reconciliation their actions did not match the rhetoric, indeed they actively antagonised areas that were politically opposed to them by threatening to ban their political parties, plus the repealing of the language laws. If they wanted territorial integrity then compromise was needed, not triumphalism. These things do not happen in a vacuum.

 

you start to play another tune, now it's ok as long as in your opinion it wouldn't be absolute disaster

 

 

I don't mind if the Caucasus republics secede from Russia at all. I wouldn't object to the South Island seceding from New Zealand, indeed it would be eminently sensible for them to as they're largely treated as a place to generate electricity for the north. I'd just question whether that would represent the will of the majority of the people in either place.

[obyknven]

Ukraine orders full mobilization of Ukaines armed forces to start at 8 AM . It's mean declaring war to Russia (on diplomatic language ).Russia can do everything now for protect yourself. Kievan usurpers are idiots.

[obyknven]