Update #70: New Year Project Update

[PrimeJunta]

Actually @Ganrich I see that as a strength, not a weakness. A party built around protecting a glass cannon will play differently from a party built around all characters having some measure of durability -- and I'm not at all convinced that it'll be easier.

[Metabot]

 

Also, as others have asked, will there be a guide to the language in the manual or some other document for our curiosity and edification?

 

Great thanks. I wonder if they'll fully flesh it out or just use it to make names and stuff like that.

[Ganrich]

Yes, ranged weapons are a potential threat. However, will the AI be good enough to discern optimal targets? In IE games we had enemies going after the first target in sight, and maybe switching later in the fight. We have 12+ years of AI development in games, but this ability will hinge on AI more than any other. If AI is subpar then Resolve becomes useless, but if it is really good Resolve may be necessary in most builds.

 

@PrimeJunta - you have a point, but my issue is that it goes against the no dump stat rule that has been laid out. If it makes it much more difficult to play that way then that is one thing, but if it becomes the optimal play-style we have an issue. I am not saying it is doomed, but that I think Resolve 'may' suffer from this change.

 

This is the only change to the Attributes I am worried about though. The rest looks fine.

[Tamerlane]

That's always a problem when you have stats that are entirely reactive. Health/stamina is a bit more inherently applicable, but even that's a little tricky to put up against active-use stats.

 

...

 

Put... put carry capacity on resolve?

[Ganrich]

Another issue with this system is Perception now effects interrupt capabilities which goes against concentration. So if most enemies don't have Perception then Resolve is less useful as a by product.

 

I was thinking of trying to come up with a scenario where each Attribute had 1 active and 1 reactive bonus. Might already has damage as an active bonus while having healing as reactive. Where intellect and possibly perception have 2 active bonuses, but constitution and resolve are only reactive. Dexterity has 1 Active, but it is a very good one. I don't know.

[TarponCrest]

I love the immediate nostalgic feeling the interface gives me (IceWind Dale 2 and Baldur’s Gate 2). Thank you!

I “studied/obsessed” over the character detail sheet, represented in this update. I can see that much of what was discussed in the forum over time has been taken into consideration, and I am very pleased to see that. All the statistics give some of us the information we need in order make the role playing experience that much more immersive.

It did occur to me (slightly off topic), that it would be nice if we could see a statistics sheet with equipment on and maybe one or two possible comparison “dolls” so that we can see the effects of different combinations pros and cons on our character at a glance.

For example, assume  I just acquired a new armor and do not wish to remove my existing armor to see what effects, if any, this new armor will give me (with the appropriate lore or/and magic that is) one can do so with relative ease as the game calculates everything in one simple to read manner.  

Also I think it would be good if the magic on items was to “fade” over time/use, and one has to do quests/rituals/crafting/tatoos, etc, to recharge them. And maybe even an item ware and tear option in the game option section (check or no to enable/disable).

Allow me to explain further. I think it could be beneficial to do an item replenishing system, outside of purchasing them or crafting alone. I think it adds more depth and strategy to the game when one has to consider how and when to use those favorite magical items or rare quest obtained goods rather than forgetting about them once acquiring them. It also brings more meaning to crafting, side questing, and the overall value of the items. So I would propose considering the idea of implementing item magic “degradation”, fast in combat, normal in use(adventuring), and slow in inventory. And such calculations, time left predictions, etc, displayed on the character sheet in detail as well as on the overall effects (positive and negative). For example an item that increases constitution +4 ring, degrades to +3,+2,+1,0,-1,-2,-3,-4. The negative is for someone who keeps an item on to long without “renovating it’s  essence” , doing a quest, enchanting, taking it to “x” location for recharge, etc. We could further allow for faster degradation when stacking magical items, or the converse extra bonuses to benefits if specific criteria is met. For example: If one has an armor provides a % of improved freedom of movement bonus/saves, one could “overcharge” the magic item for X time and get full immunity to movement impeding conditions, but at the conclusion of this effect/time the item is destroyed. The destroyed item now in the inventory (must have enough space and carrying capacity) could be restored by those skilled with crafting, but only into a non magical representation of its former self.

On another note, I am quite encouraged to see the amount of effort there seems to be placed on reputation and deities, as well as being represented on the character sheet interface. I can’t wait to see how all this wonderful work looks in it’s finished state.

One last note, I would love to have the ability to turn on and off many of the features/ideas mentioned above. For instance reputation, magic use, crafting, hardcore spell casting, etc. I believe that the more freedom to enable or disable features in the game, will help to bring a happier group of players who’s play styles are sure to differ.

Thank you for the update and the great work. I am very pleased I backed this project. Can’t wait to gather with my friends as I explore the wonders of this new and exciting adventure.  *dreams of a shape shifting playable class*.

[Tauron]

I don't know that stat "correction" is really an issue, so long as you know up front what's affecting what. Especially with percentages and such. You can't really put points into Might at the beginning of the game, see "+30% damage" out next to it, then 20 hours later go "Wait, I've been building everything to support Accuracy and AOE radius this whole time! I didn't know my Might wasn't helping that! Where can I fix my stats, lest I be doomed to a certainly unavoidable... erm... doom?!"

 

Sure, you might get somewhere and think "Man, I could use a little bit more Accuracy... I figured 12 Dex would do it, but I'd really like to have a bit more crit chance, statistically." But then, that's where items and such come in. Nothing needs to allow you to simply alter your character's innate attributes halfway through the game, is all I'm saying. By the same token, nothing really needs to give you stat points via progression. A few isn't such a big deal, but "get up to 10 more stat points simply be becoming better!" has always been a little weird to me in games.

 

Maybe it doesnt have to be issue, it really depends on game mechanics. Imo whatever we do, we trade something for other. We might not always be aware what other is, but it is.You can be warrior and put lot in your strength(this can reflect training or hard life conditions), but your phisical strength diminishes if your neglect your traning or by simple not doing same amount of workload for extended time. Also, if someone focus on pure strength and does 200kg in bench, doesnt mean he has endurance to run for extended period of time, this isnt case for all but is considered generall rule. So lets say I want to shift my characters focus, either its personal rp wise or simply gamewise and i dont want to wait next 5 lvls to stack other attributes.

 

Lets say I want to increase int for some reason...if I have been sitting in library evry day, focusing on learning, eating, drinking...being educated slob for some period, physical attributes ARE going to be lost. So I was just having that in mind, that lets say we have a tutor ingame, someone who can train you or coach you if you will in certain direction.

We doesnt have to rest all our stats, while there might be mods later prob. I think such option ingame is valid (realistic, dare i say). I am not saying..oh i have gold, let buy me some int or constitution. But in light of what i mentioned, make appealing trade off that makes sense. 

 

I keep in mind that I dont really know how stats and diff points will effect our character.

[MasterPrudent]

Also I think it would be good if the magic on items was to “fade” over time/use, and one has to do quests/rituals/crafting/tatoos, etc, to recharge them. And maybe even an item ware and tear option in the game option section (check or no to enable/disable).

 

Allow me to explain further. I think it could be beneficial to do an item replenishing system, outside of purchasing them or crafting alone. I think it adds more depth and strategy to the game when one has to consider how and when to use those favorite magical items or rare quest obtained goods rather than forgetting about them once acquiring them. It also brings more meaning to crafting, side questing, and the overall value of the items. So I would propose considering the idea of implementing item magic “degradation”, fast in combat, normal in use(adventuring), and slow in inventory. And such calculations, time left predictions, etc, displayed on the character sheet in detail as well as on the overall effects (positive and negative). For example an item that increases constitution +4 ring, degrades to +3,+2,+1,0,-1,-2,-3,-4. The negative is for someone who keeps an item on to long without “renovating it’s  essence” , doing a quest, enchanting, taking it to “x” location for recharge, etc. We could further allow for faster degradation when stacking magical items, or the converse extra bonuses to benefits if specific criteria is met. For example: If one has an armor provides a % of improved freedom of movement bonus/saves, one could “overcharge” the magic item for X time and get full immunity to movement impeding conditions, but at the conclusion of this effect/time the item is destroyed. The destroyed item now in the inventory (must have enough space and carrying capacity) could be restored by those skilled with crafting, but only into a non magical representation of its former self.

I'm not sure if you saw it but a long time ago on these very boards the developers unveiled their crafting mechanics (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64048-update-58-crafting-with-tim-cain/). One of these mechanics was a durability system which involved weapons and armour degrading over time. The response was not favourable, a truly epic thread resulted and the final outcome was the developers opted to remove said mechanic due to the overwhelmingly negative reaction. Long story short: there's no way that PoE is going to have any kind of durability system.

[Lephys]

@Tauron:

 

I wasn't meaning to say that you were intenionally in favor of unnecessary stat-point gains (like buying them, etc.). All I was saying was, I think that the whole "make sure everything's viable" goal they have is an admirable one, alone, and that, if met, that already accomplishes the elimination of really needing to "correct your stats" like in other games.

 

Look at D&D's ruleset, for example. In DnD games, if you pumped DEX as a Rogue, then decided to stop using crossbows, and switched to shortswords or something, then *poof*, you're suddenly needing that Strength modifier instead of that Dex modifier. But, in PoE, your Dex affects your Accuracy, no matter what.

 

So, what I'm getting at is, the only thing this doesn't really cover is just drastic mind-changing decisions, like "I no longer want to be accurate, I want to be super strong and have boatloads of Resolve!". But, I dunno that a game should really allow changes that drastic, or anywhere near that drastic.

 

I'm not against a handful of point differences throughout gameplay, whether it's gain a stat point every 5 levels, or occasionally come across items/quest solutions that will present you with one, etc. But, the whole point of an RPG system is that you build a character that is distinct from all other characters -- a point on a spectrum -- and you play through the game, and the game reacts accordingly. The more able you are to change the foundation of your character, the less of a point all that reactive setup has.

 

Also, in line with tutors and training, etc, that stuff is fine, but could easily apply to skills rather than stats. You don't lose the ability to think well just because you sit around for a while. You just fail to remember specific knowledge that you haven't used in a while. If you relearn that knowledge, you don't learn it again more slowly. You're still just as intelligent. Granted, with fitness, yes, there is flexibility, but this has been addressed before in similar discussions. STR (and, especially PoE's Might) is more a measure of your sort of permanent strength level. Essentially, I don't think an RPG adventure really supports you just sitting around and suffering muscle atrophy for 3 months, so, for all practical purposes, your Strength is supposed to represent whatever fitness lifestyle you led + whatever natural biological musculature/genetics you've got going on once you reached adulthood (Level 1 adventuring character, usually). It's abstract, yes. And, in a PnP game, it's much more likely to fluctuate more often. But, in a cRPG, it's a lot more permanent.

 

Plus, you could always have a fitness/physique "skill" rating, or something similar. Thus, your STR X your skill would be the full result of your immediate Strength. That would actually be pretty interesting. But... pegging your Strength as just the amount of time you've spent working your muscles recently is no more accurate than just having it be completely permanent and never change. Not many people are going to body-build for 7 hours a day, then go off adventuring and fail to keep up with their body-building regime. Nor are people likely to just sit around on their arse on a daily basis, for years, then suddenly begin a crazy adventure situation and just survive, even though they can't lift a 10-lb brick.

 

So, generally speaking, there's not going to be a whole lot of constant fluctuation in even something changeable, like Strength. Granted, maybe you go through a situation that's now become slightly cliche in RPGs: You get locked up for a manner of months, and just do hard/labor and/or are tortured for a while, thus your Strength/Constitution is increased permanently, once you get some food back in you and such. Again, I'm all for representing changes like that, when appropriate. But, I'm not sure the nature of the game and story really support a Strength fluctuation every month of travel or anything like that. I don't think it needs to be measured quite that accurately, for what it's worth.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Lephys

[Metabot]

Why are people against durability now? WTF

[Lephys]

Long story short: there's no way that PoE is going to have any kind of durability system.

I wouldn't say that. I think there's no way it's going to have a standard durability system that applies to all physical objects that just wear down over time/with use.

 

I mean, the pseudo-Vancian spell system is already sort of a durability system, for magic, really, so I dare say there might be other things that wear out or require replenishing, here and there. Just not all equipment, ever.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Look at D&D's ruleset, for example. In DnD games, if you pumped DEX as a Rogue, then decided to stop using crossbows, and switched to shortswords or something, then *poof*, you're suddenly needing that Strength modifier instead of that Dex modifier. But, in PoE, your Dex affects your Accuracy, no matter what.

 

It depends on the build and rule set. I played a Trickster Rogue in 4E pnp and Strength wasn't required. I only put the minimum amount of points in Strength to hold a shield (as there was a minimum strength requirement to hold shields) and that was it. I was a melee character starting out with a dagger and finally going to a rapier before I hit paragon. Therefore I didn't need that strength modifier.

 

However, it appears from the character sheet that Might will be a stat you will require for all classes in PoE as it affects damage.

[t_underbridge]

This may have been asked already and my search missed it, but how are those ruined arches in the ancient Engwithan ruins screen shot managing to float in the air like that when they no longer meet in the middle?  Is there some in-game explanation?

 

I have to say, it looks a bit silly to me and detracts from the scene. 

[Lephys]

It depends on the build and rule set. I played a Trickster Rogue in 4E pnp and Strength wasn't required. I only put the minimum amount of points in Strength to hold a shield (as there was a minimum strength requirement to hold shields) and that was it. I was a melee character starting out with a dagger and finally going to a rapier before I hit paragon. Therefore I didn't need that strength modifier.

 

However, it appears from the character sheet that Might will be a stat you will require for all classes in PoE as it affects damage.

I realize that, but the point was the effects of a simple choice on the benefit of stats. Doesn't matter if you have a "Use DEX instead of STR for to-hit bonus with such-and-such weapons" feat or not if DEX affects all the weapons from the get-go. I was keeping it simple, because it's just an example, and nothing further from D&D's ruleset is going to apply in PoE's case (as I said... not much room for a "use this stat instead of this stat" talent when one stat already covers everything).

 

And just to clarify (I'm not saying this isn't what you meant, btw), all classes will definitely benefit from Might, but I wouldn't say need. I mean, you can't have 0, obviously. But... It's not like you'll do 0 damage if you don't have enough Might or anything, is all.

[Metabot]

This may have been asked already and my search missed it, but how are those ruined arches in the ancient Engwithan ruins screen shot managing to float in the air like that when they no longer meet in the middle?  Is there some in-game explanation?

 

I have to say, it looks a bit silly to me and detracts from the scene. 

 

Presumable there's some kind of mortar there holding the bricks together....

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I realize that, but the point was the effects of a simple choice on the benefit of stats. Doesn't matter if you have a "Use DEX instead of STR for to-hit bonus with such-and-such weapons" feat or not if DEX affects all the weapons from the get-go. I was keeping it simple, because it's just an example, and nothing further from D&D's ruleset is going to apply in PoE's case (as I said... not much room for a "use this stat instead of this stat" talent when one stat already covers everything).

 

And just to clarify (I'm not saying this isn't what you meant, btw), all classes will definitely benefit from Might, but I wouldn't say need. I mean, you can't have 0, obviously. But... It's not like you'll do 0 damage if you don't have enough Might or anything, is all.

 

 

Perhaps using a better example because your D&D rogue example didn't make much sense when a rogue's biggest damage output will be sneak attack and it's harder to sneak attack with a crossbow than it is with a melee weapon. So most rogues will be melee characters to pull off a sneak attack every round.

 

Also, I see a lot of similarities with 4E and PoE, especially with a lot of comments from Josh. Similar with the classes, especially with the Rogue in PoE being a striker which is the same as in 4E.

 

I can see a lot of glass cannons with PoE with sacrificing other stats to pump up Might (Dex and Perception) to do max damage. And this will be for most classes. Resolve seems to be the dump stat to me. Even if there's negative effects with dumping Resolve, if my party is still doing damage every round then the characters are doing their job.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[t_underbridge]

 

This may have been asked already and my search missed it, but how are those ruined arches in the ancient Engwithan ruins screen shot managing to float in the air like that when they no longer meet in the middle?  Is there some in-game explanation?

 

I have to say, it looks a bit silly to me and detracts from the scene. 

 

Presumable there's some kind of mortar there holding the bricks together....

 

 

I'm not an architect or engineer, so I invite corrections from anyone that's an actual expert, but I doubt even modern mortar could suspend heavy stones horizontally like that -- certainly not for centuries.  Real arches are held together by compressive forces.

 

I suppose there could be reinforcement rods inside, but then we should see them protruding in places where the stones have been stripped away.  In any event, I think reinforcement rods (rebars) are a fairly recent innovation.

Edited January 16, 2014 by t_underbridge

[Sensuki]

If any more criticism is wanted regarding the character attributes I'm still seeing a little bit of a problem with the Perception attribute.

 

I like Might, Dex, Con, Int and (maybe) Resolve, but Perception seems a bit off.

 

Here are the issues I see (this may just be me not fully understanding but anyway)

 

Perception and Dexterity both raise Reflex Defense.

 

Dexterity gives you accuracy (always very good, on every character).

 

Perception gives you Penetration and Interrupt. If Penetration is staying, these are both once again reliant on the fact that you have to actually hit (Accuracy). Does Interrupt count on grazes? (I assume not, or at least, at a reduced amount) Because once again, the combat stats of the Perception attribute are highly reliant on the Dexterity attribute. It kind of seems like a similar situation to the last setup (but not as bad as the last Perception).

 

In order for Perception to be useful, you still need a high Dexterity as well.

 

Numbers aside, I can see Perception being useful for one or two characters - it would be beneficial to have a character with max Perception to be able to interrupt enemy spells and whatnot. Could be melee or ranged, with a fast and slow attacking weapon depending on the unit (Bow & Crossbow or maybe Pike & Maul). And depending on whether Penetration is kept it might be alright in a couple situations with slashing/piercing damage dealing characters as well, the penetration value could make a sword or axe more viable vs armor, depending on the math between higher might +dam and perception +pene).

 

So I dunno, maybe that's acceptable, maybe it isn't.

 

I know that the PE design philosophy likes mirrored mechanics, but perhaps Concentration (or Resolve) could square off against Bonus Damage (Might, which is importantly intuitive) for the purposes of determining whether a hit reaction is played or not and have something else on Perception?

 

I know I keep crying "Attack Speed", but with the right math it could work. Move Accuracy to Perception (also intuitive as hand-eye coordination comes from the brain as well as muscle) and put Attack Speed on Dexterity ?

Make it so that max Dexterity negates (or nearly makes up for) the action speed penalty to the heaviest armor (ie the max amount is the same - 20 Dex = +30% (1.5 per point)).

 

(for the record, that's probably not the best or only solution, just an example of one)

Edited January 16, 2014 by Sensuki

[Metabot]

 

 

I'm not an architect or engineer, so I invite corrections from anyone that's an actual expert, but I doubt even modern mortar could suspend heavy stones horizontally like that -- certainly not for centuries.  Real arches are held together by compressive forces.

 

I suppose there could be reinforcement rods inside, but then we should see them protruding in places where the stones have been stripped away.  In any event, I think reinforcement rods (rebars) are a fairly recent innovation.

 

 

If you're not an architect or engineer then what do you know at all? 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebar#History

 

Rebar has been in use since the 1700s, even though earth timeline doesn't really correspond directly to PoE's timeline (a fantasy setting). 

Not only that but mortar used in ancient structures still holds up today in some cases. 

Edited January 16, 2014 by Metabot

[Lephys]

Perhaps using a better example because your D&D rogue example didn't make much sense when a rogue's biggest damage output will be sneak attack and it's harder to sneak attack with a crossbow than it is with a melee weapon. So most rogues will be melee characters to pull off a sneak attack every round.

By all means, feel free to present a better example. I'm not about to claim my example was the absolute best one. It was the quickest one that came to mind that presented my point, is all.

 

That said, I don't comprehend how your example is tackling the same thing as mine. Maybe that's why mine didn't seem to make sense? My point was in relation to "correcting" your stats in the middle of a playthrough (basically, after character creation -- some degree of the "respec" feature seen in a lot of games). If you decide to use melee weapons instead of bows, all of the sudden, in D&D (3e, I guess... I haven't played 4e), and you'd allocated your stats with bows in mind, for example (high DEX), then you'd suddenly lose your +x to hit from DEX, because melee weapons use the STR modifier instead. Thus, unless you arbitrarily boosted the crap out of your STR, you would suddenly find yourself wishing you could alter your stats, because all that DEX isn't really helping you as much any more, and you could really use some STR instead.

 

That's an understandable scenario in which you'd desire to be able to alter stats, because going from mainly ranged to mainly melee is a perfectly reasonable course change with a given character. However, suddenly deciding you're going to focus on being a Wizard instead of on being a Fighter isn't a very reasonable change. That's a rather extreme change.

 

PoE is built so that you have no problem with changes like the first mind-change decision (ranged to melee weaponry). And the 2nd is just an example of something I think doesn't really need support. There's only so much of a degree of changing your mind that the game's design should really worry about supporting.

 

Besides, if you're allowed to simply re-allocate some stat points a bit in the middle of the game, you run into problems like "Now the player can just lack the Intellect to enter a significant branch of dialogue with someone, go re-allocate so that they have 2 more points of Intellect, then go back to that person and successfully enter that branch of dialogue to great effect."

 

*shrug*. I just think it's easy enough to design the game so that specific stat allocations don't really lock you into a ridiculously restricted role, so that there's no need for anything more than minor tweaking to your course of progression, rather than "Omg I want to do something a bit different, I've decided, but NOW MY STATS ARE COMPLETELY FUBAR'D!"

 

 

This may have been asked already and my search missed it, but how are those ruined arches in the ancient Engwithan ruins screen shot managing to float in the air like that when they no longer meet in the middle?  Is there some in-game explanation?

Two words...

 

Soul, Magic.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Lephys

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

By all means, feel free to present a better example. I'm not about to claim my example was the absolute best one. It was the quickest one that came to mind that presented my point, is all.

 

 

ROFL.

 

You gave an example that was wrong and then want me to do your work and come up with a better example for you. Nice try.

 

 

 

That said, I don't comprehend how your example is tackling the same thing as mine. Maybe that's why mine didn't seem to make sense? My point was in relation to "correcting" your stats in the middle of a playthrough (basically, after character creation -- some degree of the "respec" feature seen in a lot of games). If you decide to use melee weapons instead of bows, all of the sudden, in D&D (3e, I guess... I haven't played 4e), and you'd allocated your stats with bows in mind, for example (high DEX), then you'd suddenly lose your +x to hit from DEX, because melee weapons use the STR modifier instead. Thus, unless you arbitrarily boosted the crap out of your STR, you would suddenly find yourself wishing you could alter your stats, because all that DEX isn't really helping you as much any more, and you could really use some STR instead.

 

That's an understandable scenario in which you'd desire to be able to alter stats, because going from mainly ranged to mainly melee is a perfectly reasonable course change with a given character. However, suddenly deciding you're going to focus on being a Wizard instead of on being a Fighter isn't a very reasonable change. That's a rather extreme change.

 

PoE is built so that you have no problem with changes like the first mind-change decision (ranged to melee weaponry). And the 2nd is just an example of something I think doesn't really need support. There's only so much of a degree of changing your mind that the game's design should really worry about supporting.

 

Besides, if you're allowed to simply re-allocate some stat points a bit in the middle of the game, you run into problems like "Now the player can just lack the Intellect to enter a significant branch of dialogue with someone, go re-allocate so that they have 2 more points of Intellect, then go back to that person and successfully enter that branch of dialogue to great effect."

 

*shrug*. I just think it's easy enough to design the game so that specific stat allocations don't really lock you into a ridiculously restricted role, so that there's no need for anything more than minor tweaking to your course of progression, rather than "Omg I want to do something a bit different, I've decided, but NOW MY STATS ARE COMPLETELY FUBAR'D!"

 

 

Are you being argumentative for the sake of it because it sure sounds like it. If I'm playing a character and I want to change the characters weapons during the game, then it usually comes down to skills and if I can use a bow or sword, not the primary attribute points. The only reason I see in wanting to change primary attributes halfway through a game is if you wanted to change from say a Trickster Rogue to a Brawny Rogue. And PoE doesn't have kits.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Sensuki]

For the UI, you could also use two horizontal weapons to reflect the Accuracy values (or like one axe or maul head)

 

ie

 

[Metabot]

Re: arches

 

If you look at the stones, they aren't much bigger than the ones that make up the steps leading up to this ruined structures. They aren't really very large stones. This seems to be the ruins of a much larger structure. Maybe some of the ruined arches should have a few less stones left, I don't know but who cares, really? 

 

I don't know why I'm still talking about this...boredom?

[Lephys]

For the UI, you could also use two horizontal weapons to reflect the Accuracy values (or like one axe or maul head)

 

ie

 

-image-

I know it's not a huge problem or anything, but I was actually going to suggest two side-by-side icons. either two fists, or two weapons. I like the idea of using two DIFFERENT weapon icons, because it's visually intuitive which hand is which with that. But, I think it'd be a little easier to make the connection if they were side-by-side, instead of vertically stacked. My brain has to rotate it 90 degrees every time.

 

Again, not the end of the world, but then... most aspects of the UI aren't a super-specific way because it's the end of the world, but just to make the presentation if information and the player's interaction with the game as fluid as possible.

[Metabot]

@sensuki-

 

Aren't you building your party with each member being needed for different tasks?