Water

[mudd1]

While the gameplay trailer looked just as gorgeous as I had hoped given the decision to go with 2D backgrounds. One thing that I'm not sure about yet is the look of the water though. Maybe it's all pre-alpha and I just should stop worrying but let's take a look at the three scenes where water is most prominently featured in the trailer.

 

 

The water looks very different in all three of these scenes and I definitely like the first one the least while the second one looks pretty good actually. Of course the hard pixely edges of the foreground columns contributes its share to make the water stick out in the first screenshot but actually I'm not convinced this is the only reason. It just looks too "3D" to me.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited December 12, 2013 by mudd1

[PrimeJunta]

I thought the water looked particularly good actually.

[Pipyui]

I like the water, the only thing I fear is that, in that third screenshot of yours, the water in a closed pool in a closed cavern might display surface movement in a single direction.  I hate that.

[PrimeJunta]

True, that. It'd be cool to see some still water for a change, with maybe just the occasional circular ripple when a drop falls in.

 

I wouldn't prioritize that over a single branch in a dialog tree though.

[mudd1]

Just to be clear, BTW. I don't think the water looks bad per se. In any other game I'd probably like the effect. I don't like it here because I don't find it fitting for the painterly backgrounds. Just wanted to make sure this came across.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Maybe too many ripples, and too uniform, although I didn't notice it in motion so much.

[Solviulnir the Soulbinder]

It's more or less ok on the first two screens imho. 
The reflections are weird on the last screen though. Looks like an inside of a nuclear reactor illuminated with Cherenkov radiation.
I think that making it way darker would add a bit more realism.

Also, 3d water surface tends to look slightly more natural and life-like when two layers of displacement noise are mixed, one with a fine grain and the other of slightly higher amplitude.   

[LadyCrimson]

I like it and I don't think it clashes with the painted backgrounds at all.

 

I'd agree that perhaps they could reduce the number of ripples just a tad.

[Abel]

It's more or less ok on the first two screens imho. 

The reflections are weird on the last screen though. Looks like an inside of a nuclear reactor illuminated with Cherenkov radiation.

I think that making it way darker would add a bit more realism.

 

Also, 3d water surface tends to look slightly more natural and life-like when two layers of displacement noise are mixed, one with a fine grain and the other of slightly higher amplitude.   

 

 

Well i like the water, especially the fact that there are various kind of textures for it depending of the place. I wasn't shocked at all. Perhaps, in the third, there are too many ripples and the water should be still... But well, maybe there is a reason for it to be animated and highlighted... The trailer does not show enough to be sure there isn't.

[Frenetic Pony]

Thoughts? No reflections. Solution: Pre-render the reflection map like what's done with the background, light, apply, win. Problem: No skyboxes in the current game make for extra work for the artists. Or blank areas where the sky's reflection should be

Edited December 14, 2013 by Frenetic Pony

[mudd1]

Thoughts? No reflections.

 

Read that as "Thoughts? No, reflections!" Anyway, that's actually something that I can do without.

[T-8OO_1]

Hey,

 

I especially like the water from the first and third picture, but the Ilumination in the third picture is a bit weird. But maybe it's supposed to look like this because of magic in the pool or something like that :D

 

T-8OO_1

[Azmodan]

Water dynamics are actually really hard to get right, and I hope that the guys aren't going to be taking a single approach across the board.

 

The opacity, textures and specular reflection of water should be scene-specific. e.g.:

- a calm brook or lake

- a fast narrow stream

- a swamp (no, it's not as easy as turning the light map green)

- a muddy puddle

 

Similarly, other substances e.g.:

- Oil,

- Large vats of boiling blood

- Lava

- liquefied fears of children

 

Should not look like recoloured water.

[Orogun01]

Thoughts? No reflections. Solution: Pre-render the reflection map like what's done with the background, light, apply, win. Problem: No skyboxes in the current game make for extra work for the artists. Or blank areas where the sky's reflection should be

Be easier to use a Reflection Cube to bake into the texture, they don't need skyboxes just the scene files. 

Also; love the name. DXHR, right?