Begining/orgins and history of our character.

[Ulquiorra]

Hi

 

As a proud gamers we know that storyline and main plot is one of the most inportant part of the game. But before we enter epic main storyline we must at least create ouw character.

 

To this time we know that we will have possibility to play difrent races, classes and even cultures. But what about our characters past ?

 

One of the biggest issu i have when i start playing old D&D games is the "start of the game". Let's take Baldours Gate 1. How is it possible that are character learned how to become a druid if he didn't ever leave candlekeep before game events ?

 

Adding "one" start begining for our character will do if we have classes like rogue or fighter that mostly whoud gain expierience and knowledge by training alone. But for druids, paladins, wizards and mostly for barberians and druids this type of "simmilar" begining is in some way immersion breaking.

 

What type of history orgin and start of the game whoud you like to see in PE ?

 

Yes Yes, we have a poll

 

One thing, then i say orgins i mean our hisotry, race, class, culture and entire past before we "enter" main storyline

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[JFSOCC]

I like the concept of having origins as gameplay influence, but no background will ever be close enough to my imagination, so I prefer to write my own background and start young. My history will begin here.

 

The alternative is vague allusions you can pick up as traits, like "fought in the war" or "orphan" or "well to do" and just compile your own list. But you'd need a pretty wide range. IMO these traits don't have to have a gameplay effect, but they could have.

[Ulquiorra]

I like the concept of having origins as gameplay influence, but no background will ever be close enough to my imagination, so I prefer to write my own background and start young. My history will begin here.

 

The alternative is vague allusions you can pick up as traits, like "fought in the war" or "orphan" or "well to do" and just compile your own list. But you'd need a pretty wide range. IMO these traits don't have to have a gameplay effect, but they could have.

 

Mayby, but wheres roleplaying in this ?

 

If history orgin doesen't affect anything why those traits ? Is takeing "orphan" trait will give me some addictional dialogs in game like in NWN2 historical traits ? if yes i can understand .. but if this "orphan" trait gives me only +1 to sneaking that in me opinion it's better if it disapear compleatly.

 

Secondry, your orgin is also are class and race, and i can't imagine playing 100% the same as a dwarv or human ... if there are not plot-related or dialog/reaction related difrencec why wy put more then 1 race at all ? becouse dwaves gain +2 to constitution and humans have balaced stats ? .. please ..

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[CaptainMace]

JFSOCC is telling you that, actually, picking an origin between pre-generated ones and picking a trait is the same exact thing.
Plus, I didn't know it had any impact on Mass Effect storyline, whereas it really affected almost nothing for DAO.

 

For me, the best situation is the New Vegas one.

[Ulquiorra]

Plus, I didn't know it had any impact on Mass Effect storyline, whereas it really affected almost nothing for DAO.

 

For me, the best situation is the New Vegas one.

 

In mass effect it affected mostly dialogs, and based on your history and orgin you gained 2 possible sidequest missions that was desined for specific history, bah .. you history coud be slitle mentioned thru mass efect 2 and mass efect 3 if you imported your character. so if you combine it from whole 3 games it's something.

 

I DAO i can't agree, dwarven noble changed complatly the way how a gray warden looked at ech pretenders, human noble was at other hand have history that affected main quest mostly, a human noble gray warden coud even become a king/ queen and change another possible ending for chist sake .. if it is't "affecting" story line then i don't know what is ...

 

JFSOCC is telling you that, actually, picking an origin between pre-generated ones and picking a trait is the same exact thing.

 

Trait is something that gives you (+2 to hiding), orgin history is something that makes defrences in dialogs, reactions to you char, your opinion about some subject of world etc.

 

If you have something that gives you (+2) to hiding and gives you same thing as orgin, history (dialogs etc) then it is historical trait like in neverwinter 2 and im ok with that ..

 

But if history of character is only defined by "+2 or -2" to some statistic or ability and not giving anything more then whyare character needs any history .. why roleplay if you can take longswod +2 ? and have the same result ..

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[CaptainMace]

Ah well that explains why I didn't feel much when I played with my daish elf. I didn't know I had to choose an origin that actually affect the story

Because, to be honest, all impact it had was that dalish elves would ask me about my clan. That's all the impact it had on my game. So you'd understand how bitter i was (and still am) about origins in this game.

Edited November 29, 2013 by CaptainMace

[Ulquiorra]

Ah well that explains why I didn't feel much when I played with my daish elf. I didn't know I had to choose an origin that actually affect the story

Because, to be honest, all impact it had was that dalish elves would ask me about my clan. That's all the impact it had on my game. So you'd understand how bitter i was (and still am) about origins in this game.

 

In this point i agree and uderstand, not all Dragon age orgins was at the same level, sadly. There was 2 very good orhgins, 2 very lame and rest was "medium" at most. But that doesn't mean that becouse biowere didn't make good orgins we must complatly delate possibility of orgins in game ..

 

Race and class is for example a hudge part of orgin. But not all of it, for example Barberian .. is he a tribe barberian, or is he barberian that was living in tribe but was wondering and working as mercenery. Wizard ... is he arcane sholar type or warlock type who was his teacher, where he gain his powers etc. .. those are very important questions ..

[Ulquiorra]

 

Ah well that explains why I didn't feel much when I played with my daish elf. I didn't know I had to choose an origin that actually affect the story

Because, to be honest, all impact it had was that dalish elves would ask me about my clan. That's all the impact it had on my game. So you'd understand how bitter i was (and still am) about origins in this game.

 

 

BTW... Dalsh elf was one of most non-affecting story orgin, and possible the worst desingend ones. But becouse biowere didn't create good dalish elf, does we must completly delate possibility of having some history of our character ? If i remember coretly obsidian is makeing this game not bio ..

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[Silent Winter]

I initially voted for less impact but then I read that you meant to include class and race and dialogue choices/reactions so I'd like more of that.

As for character history - I still like BG-style, start out young, write your own bio, and go from there (although your mysterious origins in that and "why is everyone out to get me?" was fun too).

It's not that I wouldn't like a more complex system - but given the budget, I'd like more focus on what we can do in-game, and less on slight variations to some Char-Gen options.

I never played DA:O so I can't peak as to how well that worked but from the previous posts it sounds like a good idea that was implemented poorly as they may have run out of ideas/budget after the first couple *shrug*

[Ulquiorra]

I never played DA:O so I can't peak as to how well that worked but from the previous posts it sounds like a good idea that was implemented poorly as they may have run out of ideas/budget after the first couple *shrug*

 

Some orgins were good, human noble and dwarven noble. Dalish elf and dwaven commoner was horrible. Others where good at the begining but they had almost no inmpact on main story so ... BG style

 

 

 

I initially voted for less impact but then I read that you meant to include class and race and dialogue choices/reactions so I'd like more of that.

As for character history - I still like BG-style, start out young, write your own bio, and go from there (although your mysterious origins in that and "why is everyone out to get me?" was fun too).

It's not that I wouldn't like a more complex system - but given the budget, I'd like more focus on what we can do in-game, and less on slight variations to some Char-Gen options.

 

BG had no impact on the game, regardless of you class or race. The only thing that was difrent that some times someone respoundet to you like "hey your a dwav ? why your not in muntains ?".

 

By the way .. yest adding some addictional respoundes, reaction and dialogs or even tweek a little some quest will kill budged complatly ... Besides .. it's not our problem "bugdet" we give most we coud, this is obsidian problem to make "wonderfull" game as they sad. So if it means that adding orgins, history etc will make this game better and high impact of it to a plot is better then no impact then it's their problem...

 

I curious if they whoud give screenschots like this

with horrible graphic whoud any one say "hay then don't have bodget deal with it" intead of "what a ****"

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[Quetzalcoatl]

I don't think the poll options are very well-chosen. Like grouping in Arcanum with Mass Effect. The great thing about Arcanum's opening is that it's one of the best set-ups for a blank slate. You're a traveler who crashes in a land that's unknown to you. That's it. No history of being a veteran soldier or growing up at Candlekeep under the care of a wizard.

 

The problem with the DA:O origins is that they were a weak compromise between a blank slate and a more fixed character that ended up amounting to very little.

 

Ideally, I would want the player character to have recently travelled to the region for whatever reason, with the game leaving his/her past undefined.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Quetzalcoatl

[Ulquiorra]

I don't think the poll options are very well-chosen. Like grouping in Arcanum with Mass Effect. The great thing about Arcanum's opening is that it's one of the best set-ups for a blank slate. You're a traveler who crashes in a land that's unknown to you. That's it. No history of being a veteran soldier or growing up at Candlekeep under the care of a wizard.

 

Yeah but im not saying "what type of starting storyline" obsidan must input to make good start. Im only considered about ogins, biography history of our char. Brecouse "living" in a city beside wizard is beliveble if you are wizard or other clas that don't need trainer, but not for barberians, druids etc ....

 

In Mass Effect in general all classes are difrent only by abilitys becouse those are allways a "soliders", in some way simmilar to kotor 2 "jedi classes" ... i wonder why ... (sarcastic )

[Osvir]

I like Arcanum's way of handling it. A sort of "This is who you were before". But I also like Dragon Age: Origins too, you start off in a different place in the world. Actually I think Dragon Age: Origins way of doing it has many unexplored design areas, but Arcanum way of doing it gives more resources to the Developer to spend on other things.

What Origins lacks though, is kind of a "Saga Frontier"-esque story path. In Saga Frontier every character has their own story arch though, but they tackle their problems from various angles and that's kind of the idea.

Ostagar, I've spoken about it previously, is an excellent hub location for the different origins but I think it gets mundane and repetetive. All the Origins become 1 in Ostagar, which is a bit of a disappointment to be honest. Duncan recruits potential Grey Warden candidates, but I think Ostagar itself would be more fun if you'd, as a Circle Mage, gets to travel with Wynne to Ostagar as a mage and Duncan notices you there. As an Elf, perhaps you stumble across Ostagar camp (or a watcher, watching over the battle plans) amidst the deal Duncan or the soldiers finds the character and emprisons them.

A Dwarf Noble that is overlooking military investments made by the dwarven kingdom in Ostagar. Etc. etc. Lots of stuff can be done with it I believe.

[Mor]

I want to say "yes", the player origin(i.e Ethnicity, Race, Class etc) should play an integral part in the plot, not just some stat bonus for combat, after all such intricacies is what cRPG fans love, as it will make the story more "personal". However, as with all thing its all about balance, too much and it become blend and repetitive copy paste reactions(espcily with 11 races, and many subraces). Even in games where your past plays an important role with over reaching consequences, you don't want t be bludgeoned by it at every conversation.

 

In eternity, we already seen several examples of dialogues being designed to account to specific skills(our leveling choices), and the reputation/disposition systems as well as other quest specific "tickets" will track the consequences of our action. Overall the devs have a huge verity of tools to make unique quest, that fits the situations/NPC quirks etc. So to me it is about how meaningful such things as our origin will play out, not how many times.

[Ulquiorra]

I want to say "yes", the player origin(i.e Ethnicity, Race, Class etc) should play an integral part in the plot, not just some stat bonus for combat, after all such intricacies is what cRPG fans love, as it will make the story more "personal". However, as with all thing its all about balance, too much and it become blend and repetitive copy paste reactions(espcily with 11 races, and many subraces). Even in games where your past plays an important role with over reaching consequences, you don't want t be bludgeoned by it at every conversation.

 

I whoud say YES and NO at the same time

 

For example if you are highly known son of the prince/king etc. It whoud be beliveble that every one (or at least most) people know you so allmost every conversation shoud look difrent then a then from "commoner" orgin.

 

But f you are unknown assasin that whats to start something difrent and put his past behind him it whoud be beliveble that almost nobody knows your past or orgin ...

 

 

So it depends

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[mcmanusaur]

Voted. Also, some relevant threads.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Blank Slate please.

[Ulquiorra]

Blank Slate please.

 

Blank state like neverwinter nights 1, blak state like Arcanum or blank state like fallout New Vegas ?

 

Im asking becouse you didn't have time to chose an answer in poll

[Tale]

I prefer RPGs to look forward, not back. My PC's history prior to the time I played as it has no value to me. Only the things I choose with the character now matter.

 

I have played and enjoyed enough games that were designed to the contrary that I'm not going to be upset about it. But if I'm given the opportunity to be picky, that's what I pick.

[Ulquiorra]

I prefer RPGs to look forward, not back.

 

Sorry if im wrong but if im picking "Dwarv" that meats that he is Dwarv and will be Dwarv but also that he WAS dwarv. Picing a character and bulding their history i future is one, but roleplaying also combains a part of reacting for previous events. For example, if someone kill entire familly of that dwarv this event will in some way effect his whole future life ...

 

Today and future are one of the factors that bulid character, but past is also bulding it. Not knowing your characters past is like not knowing you character entierly, and i like to feel like im acting like living person, not a doll that whanna-be

[Tale]

For example, if someone kill entire familly of that dwarv this event will in some way effect his whole future life ...

Then don't kill his family until after I control him.

 

If it happened before I controlled the character, then I have no investment in it.

[Pipyui]

I went for DAO history.  I liked having introductions that varied from race and class, and sometimes having those histories coming back to us in the main storyline.  As for effect on story, I like to see it brought up where appropriate, but not all too frequently, to be honest.  If nobles often talk down to me because I was born a peasant, that's alright, but anything less general shouldn't need be brought up in conversation too regularly.

 

"Hello, hobo!"

"Heaven's smiles, sir.  So you're a veteran of the Kilban War?"

"Ah yes, you see back in the day ..."

 

Stick to dialogue poking passive reference at your PC's race, status, religion, whathaveyou.  The more specific elements regarding events of my history should certainly pop up now and again to haunt me, but don't need to follow me around constantly.  I prefer to define my character or the evolution of my character by virtue of the game itself, and presumably the character I roleplay is going to be defined by history and the better part of society by his/her actions in it as well.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Pipyui

[Ulquiorra]

 

For example, if someone kill entire familly of that dwarv this event will in some way effect his whole future life ...

Then don't kill his family until after I control him.

 

If it happened before I controlled the character, then I have no investment in it.

 

 

But there are more things then "killing familly" for christ sake ...

 

If you want to control your character "Whole history" game must start few weeks after character are born ...

 

Or you just say to your self "ok i have 20 yoers old char that knows nothing, where nothing and whole his entire live where living in sterille home".. sorry but i can't imagine that fully grown char has no previos history but after we "magicly" starts to conroll him he becomes "from zero to hero" ... it's simply not beliveble ...

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[Tale]

But there are more things then "killing familly" for christ sake ...

 

If you want to control your character "Whole history" game must start few weeks after character are born ...

 

Or you just say to your self "ok i have 20 yoers old char that knows nothing, where nothing and whole his entire live where living in sterille home".. sorry but i can't imagine that fully grown char has no previos history but after we "magicly" starts to conroll him he becomes "from zero to hero" ... it's simply not beliveble ...

There's a massive distinction between a character with no history and a character with no relevant history.

 

If it's not relevant, it doesn't need to be brought up. If it's relevant, it can happen during the course of the game, not before.

[teknoman2]

i went with what can be realistically implemented in the game and would be good to have
arcanum style background, that has medium effects on the game. so depending on your past, there are some people who know you and you know them, and places you are familiar with (unless your background is "a guy who lived since he was born in a monastery")

the "make your own story" box is... meh! it offers nothing to the game. the DAO approach is not possible with the budget in question and the rest are uninteresting

as about the level of change the background brings, i went with medium, because if less you may as well not have it at all (just think of how idiotic arcanum was, where you could be anyone from the Caladon region, you boarded the blimp in Caladon and yet, after the crash, you have no idea where Caladon is... or Tarant, your destination), and more is not possible budget-wise