GDC slides including new awesome screenshots

[Lephys]

Characters of the same race and sex had the same sprites with different tints.  Due to weapon and armor proficiency restrictions, you could often tell a character's class pretty easily.  In PE, it's more difficult because those restrictions don't exist.

This is a good thing, methinks. I want to bump into a combat encounter, see a guy standing around behind other obviously front-line plate-clad folk, wearing a robe, and assume "that guy's a Mage. Better go take him down fast!", only to get within range of him, and have him pull a greatsword out from under his robe, slashing the robe off as he draws it out, screaming "Ha-HAH!" as he Warriors me to death.

 

[Mornmagor]

 

I forget if we could easily distinguish a fighter/paladin/cleric in plate-mail in BG before they performed some class specific action (?)  Mages in robes were easy of course and rogues would often wear a hood but I'm not sure about the others.

 

Characters of the same race and sex had the same sprites with different tints.  Due to weapon and armor proficiency restrictions, you could often tell a character's class pretty easily.  In PE, it's more difficult because those restrictions don't exist.

 

 

By the way, in all the screenshots we've seen so far, we took a look at some armor, which is ok, but every plate armor was always in the upper body, with leather everywhere else. I assume that full plate armor, aka from head to toe literally, will be in the game for us to wear as well, but i can't help but ask, is this the case? I haven't seen any screens with it, only some concept armor in the beginning.

 

As i said, i assume there will be full plate, i was just a bit worried about the screenies we saw so far.

 

There is a character in the screenshot where they are about to enter the monster filled room, that seems to have more plate on him, but still it's not full plate.

[coffeetable]

There is a character in the screenshot where they are about to enter the monster filled room, that seems to have more plate on him, but still it's not full plate.

 

maybe leg armour is separate idk, but im thinkin 1/2 to 3/4-length armour as shown is more likely. you ain't goin for a hike in full plate

Edited November 21, 2013 by coffeetable

[SophosTheWise]

I sincerely hope leg armour is separate, as leg armour (and clothing) always seems to get neglected, as if there was only one type of leather pants and and some silly skirts.

[J.E. Sawyer]

3/4 armor is about as much coverage as we have, mostly so there's still visible cloth you can tint.  If there's nothing to tint, then you're really not going to be able to tell people apart.

[Nonek]

Sir do you mean to inform me that I shall not be able to equip my fighting trousers? For shame sir!

 

Edit: In all seriousness though I think half armour is quite sensible for a hiking, jumping and climbing sellsword. Full harness would be reserved for the battlefield I assume. The important thing is the feathered hats.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Nonek

[Cubiq]

just a thought.. perhaps making metal armor just a bit brighter/shinier would help create a higher contrast between clothes and armor on people, and should help distinguish a bit more between less armored and more armored characters?

[JFSOCC]

Feathered hats are key. How else are we supposed to differentiate between the dashing rogue and the stumbling barbarian?

[Mornmagor]

3/4 armor is about as much coverage as we have, mostly so there's still visible cloth you can tint.  If there's nothing to tint, then you're really not going to be able to tell people apart.

So there's no leg armor in the game? No knee-guards, shin-guards and sabatons?

 

To be honest, this is disappointing, if i want to be clad in full plate, why can't i have the option to do so, in a fantasy game? Where else am i going to wear it?

 

I was able to do that in Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale, and i was still able to tell people apart.

 

Or is that 3/4 different for each class? We saw some concept art of priests(? not sure), that had armor pretty much everywhere except head, but they also had a skirt of sorts.

 

If you haven't understood yet, i have a passion with armors, and leg/boot armor is pretty important for me.

 

 

maybe leg armour is separate idk, but im thinkin 1/2 to 3/4-length armour as shown is more likely. you ain't goin for a hike in full plate

 

Well, i was able to go for a hike in full plate in BG, and this is a fantasy game. I like my character in full plate armor.

 

You can call me shallow if you like, but fantasy games and full plate armor are a pretty big thing for me. It's a pretty big disappointment, to suddenly find out, accidentally even, that my character will be able to have 3/4 armor tops.

 

It's not what i expected, to say the least. Having the option to be fully armored is almost a given in most RPGs i've played :/

 

P.S. This is the concept art i was talking about, i don't know if it's a priestess or a fighter/musketeer whatever. Why introduce something like this in art, only to come now and say we're not gonna see it?

 

 

If i misunderstood, i apologise, but no full plates in a fantasy RPG like this was a big shock, and i sincerely hope you reconsider, Josh, finding another way to tell people apart, than making them less armored.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Mornmagor

[coffeetable]

P.S. This is the concept art i was talking about, i don't know if it's a priestess or a fighter/musketeer whatever. Why introduce something like this in art, only to come now and say we're not gonna see it?

 

funnily enough, this is exactly why devs don't release more material earlier: because people assume the things they're shown are set in stone, when really they're in flux right up until the gold disc is printed. that lass is in full plate because a concept artist thought it'd look cool when she was asked to sketch up a character design back in week 2 of a >18 month project.

 

also from what's been posted elsewhere, ~my guess~ is that full plate was originally intended. then it was realised that back in the IE games, where only a handful of characters could wear heavy armour, telling those characters apart wasn't so bad. in PE where anyone can wear anything though, things might be a fair sight more confusing

 

as to why they can't just colour the armour instead of the clothes: ~my complete guess~ is that because armour designs are reasonably reserved (there're no daft pauldrons or anything), the silhouette isn't a great help at identifying what armour NPCs are wearing. start letting the player colour their armour whatever they feel and suddenly leather is indistinguishable from scale

Edited November 22, 2013 by coffeetable

[Silent Winter]

I actually think the Magic Missiles are the worst effect of the lot, but it's hard to tell because it probably looks better in fast motion.

 

The best magic missile spell effect is the original Baldur's Gate one, but it doesn't look as good in a still screen as the darker red orb surrounding the screen isn't very noticeable in motion, and I think it changes in size?

I also liked the MM effect in BG - it's the best implementation of MM I've seen too - doesn't come across well in the screen shot because yes, they change size and zoom around - look more glowing etc.  I'll reserve final judgement on PE's effects til I see them in action but I don't think those firey missiles are overdone.

I guess it depends on how much is going on at once - during a couple of NWN2 fights it became hard to see the action because the whole screen was filled with effects.

I'll agree that lens-flare is unnecessary but that's not the be-all-and-end-all of 'effects' - if it looks like fire / lightning / etc then I'll be happy.

[Silent Winter]

as to why they can't just colour the armour instead of the clothes: ~my complete guess~ is that because armour designs are reasonably reserved (there're no daft pauldrons or anything), the silhouette isn't a great help at identifying what armour NPCs are wearing. start letting the player colour their armour whatever they feel and suddenly leather is indistinguishable from scale

That could be done with specular though - leather of any colour should be distinguishable from steel.

With only 6 party members, colouring your characters' armour shouldn't be a big problem - my druid dyes his half-plate lime-green and my battle-mage dyes his hot-pink (hey, he likes it that way).

[ok, I'm not serious]

 

Then again - for those of us who want their armour to be armour-like - it would make sense to account for a natural steel-colour on all, and only dying the cloth...

(and that feathered cap - we could dye the feathers )

 

Can't say I'll be too bothered either way, full-plate v. 3/4.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Silent Winter

[JFSOCC]

put a feather on the helmet on your full plate guy and you can colour the feather to distinguish players. problem solved?

Personally it doesn't matter much to me, but I think there are a lot of people passionate about their armour, as evidenced in the armour thread.

[Mornmagor]

If Josh would be kind enough to answer, a lot of light would be shed on the situation.

 

3/4 armor, means the classic no plate gauntlets and no plate armored boots as shown in the internet with the name "three quarters armor"? Or depending on your class, the "tints" change? And we will have armor in the legs and boots as well for some?

 

Because i can't seriously imagine that, we will be able to distinguish armored characters apart based on their leather boots alone. Letting their faces seen, or some cloth hanging from the belt or the arms even, i can get, but boots? And if i can paint my boots, why can't i paint my armor in general so that people are distinguishable by color?

 

If this is a consequence of "everyone being able to wear plate", then i think i'm not too fond of this system, and i certainly don't like the implying that everyone will look the same in heavy armor, unless we make them less armored.

[teknoman2]

well, in a game that used the same visual style as PE (3D models over 2D enviroment), temple of elemental evil, i had no problem telling who is who. even if i had all fighters with the same armor on everyone, there was always something that looked different. at most you just select them by clicking the portraits and let the circles tell you who you control

[Tamerlane]

I'll confess I'm surprised by the "3/4 at most" thing. It makes sense, but I'd figured they would just throw surcoats over them and rely on those/cloaks/feathered hats for colour and differentiation.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Tamerlane

[decado]

3/4 armor is about as much coverage as we have, mostly so there's still visible cloth you can tint.  If there's nothing to tint, then you're really not going to be able to tell people apart.

 

Some other people interpreted this in way I found odd.  It seemed to me that he was saying that armor coverage is going to account for a maximum of 3/4 of a body's "costume" so you can tell them apart.  Not that you will only be able to armor 3/4 of the body (3/4ths of what?).  Or another way of saying it is that in 100% armor, you will still have about 1/4 of unique space per character so you can tell them apart.

[Nonek]

Very nice idea Tamerlane, I did like the look of surcoats in Drakensang. With hats, cloaks and other items of apparell in ones choice of colour I can imagine that distinguishing ones avatars becomes quite simple, along with the elipsoid marker under their feet lighting up when moused over.

[Tamerlane]

I will not sleep soundly until we get another game with Daggerfall-esque armour.

 

 

You just know that dude has asymmetrical pauldrons on under his robe.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Tamerlane

[coffeetable]

 

3/4 armor is about as much coverage as we have, mostly so there's still visible cloth you can tint.  If there's nothing to tint, then you're really not going to be able to tell people apart.

 

Some other people interpreted this in way I found odd.  It seemed to me that he was saying that armor coverage is going to account for a maximum of 3/4 of a body's "costume" so you can tell them apart.  Not that you will only be able to armor 3/4 of the body (3/4ths of what?).  Or another way of saying it is that in 100% armor, you will still have about 1/4 of unique space per character so you can tell them apart.

 

what

 

3/4 plate leaves the lower leg unprotected, so a tad more than the armoured dude here

 

 

far right of left screenshot.

Edited November 22, 2013 by coffeetable

[J.E. Sawyer]

3/4 is the rule we have for base armor suits because they are the common baseline shared between most folks in the world.  Unique suits can have more coverage.  All of the armor in the concept art is base armor with the exception of the "fancy" bronze plate on the far right.  That's a suit of armor from an animat.

 

"Full plate" is not separate category from "plate armor", but a suit of fine (quality) plate armor will resemble something closer to field/full plate.

 

Tinting materials other than cloth tends to produce bad results.  Shiny metal and leather are two of the worst things to tint because the way in which tinting works (multiplicatively with the RGB value) requires a low contrast, light greyscale base texture.  You'd think this would be perfect for something like steel, but it usually looks strangely anodized/not good.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Given the historical era that PE adapts and expands into a fantasy setting, I'd say that headgear will be the character marker of the day!

I mean, look at all the hats and the hoods, as well as the plumes and feathers that come with them. Also, several types of hoods were long and pointed back then. Shoes as well can serve as identity markers. I'm so curious if Obsidian has gone all-in garment-wise.

[Nonek]

Helmets as well hopefully, Karranthian has some lovely examples currently on display in his armour thread, from various sources. NWN2 had quite a nice variety of headgear as I remember.

[Mornmagor]

3/4 is the rule we have for base armor suits because they are the common baseline shared between most folks in the world.  Unique suits can have more coverage.  All of the armor in the concept art is base armor with the exception of the "fancy" bronze plate on the far right.  That's a suit of armor from an animat.

 

"Full plate" is not separate category from "plate armor", but a suit of fine (quality) plate armor will resemble something closer to field/full plate.

 

Tinting materials other than cloth tends to produce bad results.  Shiny metal and leather are two of the worst things to tint because the way in which tinting works (multiplicatively with the RGB value) requires a low contrast, light greyscale base texture.  You'd think this would be perfect for something like steel, but it usually looks strangely anodized/not good.

 

So, you're saying that we will see something that has plate coverage in boots(shins and sabatons) as well? For the more "unique" armor suits? And that just the base suit is 3/4 but we will see something resembling a "full plate" as well?

 

I didn't understand 100% from your answer ;x

 

By the way, cloth hanging from a belt could not be used as the material for tinting? Like a half skirt or something.

[Mor]

On slide 27 we see Constitution attribute and Athletics skill(?). Do we know anything else on the subject? like what are the primary attributes, how they are tied with skills or what exactly is Athletics? Because all I can think of is that none specific interview by Tim Cain about none combat skills.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Mor