The littlest events

[Yonjuro]

While I enjoyed NPC interactions in these games, I can't say I'm in agreement with your post. NPCs enhance the narrative and give life to what is otherwise a chess piece

 

 We agree on that. (And this is a major difference between BG and IWD.)

 

 

 

I feel as though I am digressing, but I can make my message very succinct. I'm play this game for the adventure itself, not "Tea-time with Minsc". I want NPCs to support that, not divert it.

 

 These don't need to be strictly 'flavor' elements; it could work like this:

 

 Since you brought up Minsc, as it is now, when you get to the gov't district, if Minsc is in your party, the messenger from the Umar Hills will approach him and give him the quest (otherwise, you approach the messenger to get the quest). If Minsc were not in your party, and you bump into him in the Copper Coronet, he could tell you about the Umar Hills quest there.  Or, maybe he tells you about a completely new quest (that you only hear about if you traveled with him at some point in the game).

 

 It just seems really strange that you can talk to just about any character on any map and get an interesting interaction (e.g. in Imnesvale/Umar Hills everybody has an opinion about what is going on; all of them wrong but some that point you in the right direction), but someone that you know and have traveled with tells you nothing except: 'do you want me to join you again?' so there is no point in doing anything but ignoring them.

 

And, if you think about it, you totally want to have tea time with Minsc, admit it 

[Lephys]

I just want to say that the characters, themselves, serve to support/advance the story. So, even something that "just" develops the character and doesn't tie directly into the story still ties IN-directly into the story. Unless the narrative doesn't take advantage of character development... in which case... shame on you, narrative! *finger waggle*

 

Also, everyone knows Minsc is a coffee drinker. u_u

Edited November 22, 2013 by Lephys

[Hassat Hunter]

 

...without VO as PE is...

Wait... it's completely devoid of VO? I thought it was just going to be limited.

 

Yeah, BG2 level. So full VO (Irenicus) very rare, mostly just a single line or nothing, just the way I like it.

 

Also, this way no-one would go 'you can't add an interjection of a teammate here, VO!' and writers can just live themselves out filling a convo with all kinds of stuff from all teammates without worrying about it being so lengthy and costly due to VO.

 

That's mostly what I was talking about. In modern games teammates interject very limited, since it would cost money if the do so, and ("Oh no") someone might not see it if other teammates are seen. Since adding text in PE would only cost the writer time, not a cost in VO-actor time, they could add much more, longer and a bigger variety of party members responding to the happenings and your decisions.

Which is a great thing to have back, that that VO-requirement took from us.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Don't get me wrong. I very much enjoy NPC interjections and interactions. These are the things that made those games great. Learning the Path of Zerthimon with Dak'kon, musing with Fall-from-Grace, and insulting people with Morte were absolutely inspired. The NPCs in the Baldur's Gate series bickering at each other or even with you were terrific as well. Interactions with Virgil in Arcanum were similar. They possessed depth, but didn't pull me out of the story to engage in some contrived buddy time. They were woven into the fabric of the story.

 

To me, these anecdotes were semi-frequent but brief. They occured within the pace of the adventure and never operated as an aside which paused or forced my path elsewhere. Their brief and random nature also gave them a more natural feel, rather than the obvious script rehersing of NWN2.

 

Ultimately what I don't want to see in P:E are the "Inn Scenes" of NWN2, where the NPCs all yammered on while the player was mostly a spectator. To me, I felt like the game was being put on hold while I was being forced to watch characters I didn't care about yuck it up. NWN2 possessed many such moments like this, and I did not generally enjoy them. NPC interaction should be fluid and seemless within the game, or be player invoked like with Planescape: Torment or Mass Effect when length/depth is required.

[Yonjuro]

Don't get me wrong. I very much enjoy NPC interjections and interactions. These are the things that made those games great. 

.......

Ultimately what I don't want to see in P:E are the "Inn Scenes" of NWN2, where the NPCs all yammered on while the player was mostly a spectator. To me, I felt like the game was being put on hold while I was being forced to watch characters I didn't care about yuck it up.

 

 Oh, I see. So by 'tea time with Minsc' you mean something that takes up too much time and isn't optional - sure, I don't want that either (especially on the nth play through).

 

 I would like to be able to talk to a recruitable NPC, especially one who used to be in the party, and have something more than: 

 

'Do you want me back in the party?'

 

1. Yes

2. No

 

 Maybe you would get some useful info, something for flavor or character development or ... (and, presumably, it would depend on what quests you have completed etc. and maybe your PCs charisma: 'Minsc, did you talk to Lord Jierdan Firkraag? Is there something odd about him or is it just my imagination?').

[MemnochPSA]

I'm sure Obsidian already know about this, but what Auxilius said is extremely important for a game of this characteristics. This is, basically, the difference between a great game and a game remembered over the decades. Please, write a lot of events, move your characters between zones doing their things, make them alive. I want to feel like I was in the world of Project Eternity. And how achieve that? I think you should observe yourselves when you're working or with your family and friends. I bet you make jokes, talk about something meaningless, future plans, weather, some thoughts you suddenly remember, serious issues... I don't know. Something like the relations between characters in The Wire but in PE. Of course, I don't want my character to be the centre of the universe, either, at least in this kind of things, just a mere spectator or a advisor in some cases.

 

Please, it's very, very important.

[Walsingham]

Don't get me wrong. I very much enjoy NPC interjections and interactions. These are the things that made those games great. Learning the Path of Zerthimon with Dak'kon, musing with Fall-from-Grace, and insulting people with Morte were absolutely inspired. The NPCs in the Baldur's Gate series bickering at each other or even with you were terrific as well. Interactions with Virgil in Arcanum were similar. They possessed depth, but didn't pull me out of the story to engage in some contrived buddy time. They were woven into the fabric of the story.

 

To me, these anecdotes were semi-frequent but brief. They occured within the pace of the adventure and never operated as an aside which paused or forced my path elsewhere. Their brief and random nature also gave them a more natural feel, rather than the obvious script rehersing of NWN2.

 

Ultimately what I don't want to see in P:E are the "Inn Scenes" of NWN2, where the NPCs all yammered on while the player was mostly a spectator. To me, I felt like the game was being put on hold while I was being forced to watch characters I didn't care about yuck it up. NWN2 possessed many such moments like this, and I did not generally enjoy them. NPC interaction should be fluid and seemless within the game, or be player invoked like with Planescape: Torment or Mass Effect when length/depth is required.

 

Bang on.

[Nonek]

Personally I found the little scenes in NWN2 quite amusing but I do get Mr Magniloquent's point in regards to not caring for the characters, that game had possibly the weakest roster of characters that Obsidian have ever produced. Hopefully the characters in Pillars of Eternity will be vibrant, distinctive and thematically interesting enough that we are enthralled by any glimpse into their private lives.

 

It might be interesting to have an npc stop say by a crumbling old house in a part of Defiance Bay, and ask the protagonists permission to investigate the place for a moment, for personal reasons, with the appropriate affects on disposition should one refuse, agree or delay their request.

 

Edit: As others have pointed out I believe that downtime in camp would be a perfect opportunity for most interjections by the npc's, thereby making an oft debated feature far more palatable by taking advantage of the opportunity for character growth and plot advancement.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Nonek

[IndiraLightfoot]

Personally I found the little scenes in NWN2 quite amusing but I do get Mr Magniloquent's point in regards to not caring for the characters, that game had possibly the weakest roster of characters that Obsidian have ever produced. Hopefully the characters in Pillars of Eternity will be vibrant, distinctive and thematically interesting enough that we are enthralled by any glimpse into their private lives.

 

 

I usually liked them too, and I do agree that NWN2 had several annoying characters, unlike MotB, which was a gem in that regard.

And Mr. Magniloquent is right that sometimes you got locked up in annoying yapfests that were too long and included a few characters you'd rather not have there at all. Teenage-bratsie Neeshka got on my nerves big time, for instance.

[Mor]

Yeah some characters make you smile, some grow on you and some are just going to have an accident, its just the way it is in a party based game. IMO it means that dev's are doing something right, because the only way that no companion will be objectionable is if you make them blend stat list that follow you around to compliment your skill set. So to me many of the complaints above speaks to verity/quality rather than the concept it self.

 

The good thing about PE is that there are no niche class, nor your characters progress is locked into certain path. which means that you won't have to drag along some NPC which annoys you, just because he is the only rouge available. You'l be able to make due with other NPCs with similar skill sets, or if you really hate banter and person stories, you'd be able to pick a generic NPC from that recruitment "inn"(i don't remember how its called)

[nikolokolus]

 

that they end up with an extra month of development time

you dont work in software do you

 

 

I never said I expected them to have extra time. Just what they could do if they run out of things to do. This idle banter thing would be "nice" but not something I'd want to see them waste a lot of time or resources on if there are bigger issues left to tackle (like making sure the game is rock-solid stable, no game breaking quest bugs, few if any spelling errors, no half-finished content, etc.).

Edited November 24, 2013 by nikolokolus

[JFSOCC]

Edit: As others have pointed out I believe that downtime in camp would be a perfect opportunity for most interjections by the npc's, thereby making an oft debated feature far more palatable by taking advantage of the opportunity for character growth and plot advancement.

I'd like to be able to tell campfire stories during downtime. each companion has a few stories to tell, listening to them will tell you more about their character, cultural background, personal experiences, etc. Maybe you can "relive" a story (game loads a map with the protagonist as your player character, and you proceed to play the story)

[Boox]

As long as the little events fit into the wider scope of the game and they written well, I'm all for them.

 

I agree with MemnochPSA. In my opinion, the Wire really hits all the right notes by slowly revealing more and more about characters' personalities and backgrounds without being overwhelming. Characters are gradually fleshed out over the course of the longer plot lines. So, I guess I'd go for sprinkling small conversations and remarks here and there while avoiding heavy handed scenes.