Animations, and more!

[m0ha]

Hello,

 

I am a big fan of not being a fan of floaty combat, magnetic weapons etc. 

Things like this may not bother everyone, but i know alot of people really hate it. 

It should really be a thing of the past by now.

 

That is why i obviously think combat should be made impactful, and with this type of game i feel it should be easy to achieve.

Impactful, what do you mean?

 

A few examples;

 

- Shield block: When a strike is blocked you can see the weapon hitting the shield, and the shield bearer receiving the impact. 

- Parry: both weapons hitting simultaneously, sparks flying

- Humanios vs humanoid actions: If a rogue-character dealt the finishing blow on an opponent it could result in for instance a backstab animation (% chance of happening?).

- X vs humanoid actions: Animation of a humanoid getting pinned (stunned) by a dog etc. 

- Spells resisted: Perhaps some sort of mental sphere pulsating for an instant.

 

Many of these things was done successfully (to an extent) in DO:A (2009)

Small things often have a very large effect!

 

Also we need a voidwalker-ish thief/wizard class that can blink-backstab. 

Edited October 22, 2013 by m0ha

[SophosTheWise]

 

Also we need a voidwalker-ish thief/wizard class that can blink-backstab. 

Maybe a bit off-topic but you can actually melee with a mage. So maybe...

[AGX-17]

 

Also we need a voidwalker-ish thief/wizard class that can blink-backstab. 

Maybe a bit off-topic but you can actually melee with a mage. So maybe...

 

Grimoire bash > cowardly teleportation (how does a straight rogue even teleport?)

[Lephys]

Grimoire bash > cowardly teleportation (how does a straight rogue even teleport?)

Verrrry carrrefully...

 

Or... soullll magggiiicccc!!!

 

[FacelessOne]

In NWN 1 is very similar system of fight to your propositions, characters during fight are parrying with blades, shields you can even see sparkles when one weapon meets another it looks awesome, but I don't see the need of this in Project Eternity.

[teknoman2]

In NWN 1 is very similar system of fight to your propositions, characters during fight are parrying with blades, shields you can even see sparkles when one weapon meets another it looks awesome, but I don't see the need of this in Project Eternity.

you do, you just dont know it yet

[Sabotin]

I really hope the running animation is good. That's what you're looking at for the majority of the game I think. In NWN2 for example I've found it to be kinda "floaty"...

[Kjaamor]

I'm not sure that reactive combat animations are possible in a system that is not turn-based and acts in its own free time. Reactive animations really either demand structured rounds (NWN), or wrestling the combat from the player for the sake of graphics (DA:O).

 

I'd sooner have my character blandly swinging his sword as long as those hits/misses arrive in the stats at the same time they arrive in the animations.

[Sabotin]

For an example of exciting looking combat in real time, look for videos from "Overgrowth".

[J.E. Sawyer]

Eternity's combat is very stat-driven and fairly zoomed-out, so it's rare that the characters play hit reactions, blocks, or parries.

[Lephys]

I'm not sure that reactive combat animations are possible in a system that is not turn-based and acts in its own free time. Reactive animations really either demand structured rounds (NWN), or wrestling the combat from the player for the sake of graphics (DA:O).

I beg to differ. What DA:O did was unnecessary. Not the inherent qualities of reactive animations. Do they have to "wrestle control" from the player? Not really. No more than the sheer existence of an animation wrestles control from the player. You want to attack 5 times, right now, but your character gets the attack command from the game code, and executes the attack. You can either allow the animation and attack to continue for its entire duration and take effect, or, possibly, cancel it.

 

Basically, there is stuff that's already outside the player's control. Therefore, you have a zone to alter without actually wrestling anything away from anyone. The reason DA:O wrestled control is because it made long-duration things happen without the player's choice. You couldn't choose NOT to spend the next 15 seconds taking down an Ogre. It just happened.

 

Then, you've got things like stuns/knockdowns, etc. Interrupts, if you will. If my character is performing a little multi-hit combo attack, and some mage smashes a boulder into his head, I expect him to fall down and/or stagger. I expect a reaction. The same I'd expect if MY mage were doing the same thing to a foe. We don't shun these types of effects simply because it means the player can't control things 24/7, because, again, there's an understandable zone of uncontrollability that we know and expect. It's got a purpose.

 

Granted, if you're going to utilize any of this, the player needs to know about it. You need to know that things striking you CAN stun you, and now you're allowed to deal with it. And if you could feasibly cancel mid-attack to perform some kind of dodge roll or something, it needs to be possible to do so, either actively, or as a passive mode/stance that's actively set. I don't care if my character's going to automatically break casting at 4.9 seconds out of 5 for that Fireball spell and dodge that incoming spear if I've expressly told him to do so when the opportunity arises. Control isn't wrestled because my character reacts to things. It's wrestled when I have no say-so in the matter.

 

 

Also, it makes sense that they're planned to be rare in Eternity (thanks for the point-out, Josh!). The less focus the perspective has on the detailed motions of the combatants on screen, the less benefit there is to increased detail.

[Junker]

 

- Shield block: When a strike is blocked you can see the weapon hitting the shield, and the shield bearer receiving the impact. 

- Parry: both weapons hitting simultaneously, sparks flying

- Humanios vs humanoid actions: If a rogue-character dealt the finishing blow on an opponent it could result in for instance a backstab animation (% chance of happening?).

- X vs humanoid actions: Animation of a humanoid getting pinned (stunned) by a dog etc. 

- Spells resisted: Perhaps some sort of mental sphere pulsating for an instant.

 

I agree. Stuff like this goes a long way towards delivering an enjoyable gaming experience. These details are  the only redeemable aspect of Diablo 3 and actually kept it in the realm of relevance for more than a week post-release. For the naysayers; all of this is very possible regardless of combat systems or perspectives. Also, do not dismiss the importance of sound for immersion. Physical depiction of a parried attack is all well and good but it's nothing without a satisfying "clunk" or "clank". Some more ideas:

 

- I like the idea of random death animations based on weapon or spell. YES PLEASE!

- Resisted Spell: animation dissipates around the character or breaks into pieces upon contact and flies in different directions.

- Blood flying in realistic and dramatic arcs with slashing weapons. Blood squirting with piercing weapons.

- Dramatic, delayed responses. The victim remains still for moments before a huge guyser of blood shoots fourth (ala Vandal Hearts) or their torso/head/limbs slide from their orignal position in a nonchalant fashion.

-DUST! When moving or fighting on dirt terrain.

-Death animations based on monster type. Skeleton bones go flying. Different "levels" of death for the undead including permanent "blind" if their head is removed, decreased damage and defense for a missing limb, etc.

 

Oh, the list goes on and on.

[Sensuki]

Eternity's combat is very stat-driven and fairly zoomed-out, so it's rare that the characters play hit reactions, blocks, or parries.

 

Does this differ to the IE games where every hit played a hit animation ?

[teknoman2]

I'm not sure that reactive combat animations are possible in a system that is not turn-based and acts in its own free time. Reactive animations really either demand structured rounds (NWN), or wrestling the combat from the player for the sake of graphics (DA:O).

 

I'd sooner have my character blandly swinging his sword as long as those hits/misses arrive in the stats at the same time they arrive in the animations.

indeed. it was pretty annoying in IE games that the character did like 5 or 6 melee attacks in a round when it came to animation, but of these, only 2 had an attack roll attached so it seemed like the character was missing all the time when he actually didnt even attack

[Kjaamor]

I beg to differ. What DA:O did was unnecessary. Not the inherent qualities of reactive animations. Do they have to "wrestle control" from the player? Not really. No more than the sheer existence of an animation wrestles control from the player. You want to attack 5 times, right now, but your character gets the attack command from the game code, and executes the attack. You can either allow the animation and attack to continue for its entire duration and take effect, or, possibly, cancel it.

 

The DA:O system was rather more ridiculous than it first appeared, and you would be surprised to see just how seperate the graphical combat and stat combat were. When things are running smoothly, it looks like they're joined very nicely, but if you stick the graphics up and watch what happens, you'll see the two seperate entirely. When I did the final level, I was "battling" enemies that I was unable to select because they were already dead. The statistic battle was still going on, but the graphical representation had become utterly irrelevant, and was purely a distraction.

 

Finishing off Ogres and (to a lesser extent) Dragons was less of an issue.

[JFSOCC]

Eternity's combat is very stat-driven and fairly zoomed-out, so it's rare that the characters play hit reactions, blocks, or parries.

that's a shame, I liked the movements in KOTORII a lot, but I get that it would be a constraint of resources to make this when you guys have a lot more important stuff to do.

 

So my question is this: would it be possible for us zealous nerds to mod this in when(if) mod tools are released?

[PrimeJunta]

I vote no on this one. Getting animations like that right is a lot of work, and the work goes up exponentially the more types of critters you have. A "hit with spear" animation will turn into "hit small humanoid with spear/hit medium humanoid with spear/hit large humanoid with spear/hit small quadruped with spear/hit medium quadruped with spear/hit large quadruped with spear/hit small tentacle-monster with spear" etc., and the same for all weapon types.

 

So, no. Fewer animations, more critters plz. I'd rather not fight only bugbears all the time, however pretty the hit animations.

[Malekith]

The only animations i care about is death animations ala Fallout.  Hit reactions and parries...no

[Sensuki]

IE games had hit reactions, they interrupted movement, spellcasting, all sorts of stuff. The default ones were short.

 

It would be weird if Eternity didn't have them. I know a lot of newer games don't have them but that's something that I think is a regression. DotA 2 style game - yeah okay fair enough but in this style of game, yes please. They only need to be short like the IE ones.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Other than interrupting spellcasting, that's actually very un-D&D-like (and un-RTS-like).  In D&D, even "interrupt" actions don't truly delay or abort actions (including movement) unless the interrupting action explicitly changes the character's state/stance.  If a barbarian tears through 8 squares threatened by over a dozen enemies and takes hits from half of them, he or she still gets to take his or her full movement.

[Sensuki]

Fair enough, and yes it's definitely a 'computer game' thing.

[J.E. Sawyer]

BTW, just to be clear, successful Disengagement Attacks always play a hit reaction (unless the target has temporary immunity to the reaction, like a Wild Sprinting barbarian).  That's one of the main reasons they exist.

[Junker]

I'd also like to see cool stuff such as:

 

-A "torch toggle" button that has your character automatically pull out a torch during night hours. When combat is initiated the torch can be dropped to the ground if the character uses both hands. When combat ends a new torch is produced if you have one in your inventory. Wind and rain should require you to "relight" the torch every couple minutes.

 

-A random spilling of gold from slain characters that hold it. Should be auto-collected within proximity.

 

-Splashing water, not just ripples! So few games do this and the ones that do are remembered by me to this day.