Might and Magic series

[decado]

There are two massive RPG series I've never really played: Might and Magic, and Ultima.  I've decided I want to educate myself on the first one, and then move on to the Ultima series.

 

So my question is, where should I start with Might and Magic? And can anyone familiar with the franchise break down the various games and spin-offs?  I've tried to do some research via Wikipedia but there are a lot of games.  

 

This is a Might and Magic thread.  All opinions and/or advice are welcome! Tell me where I should start, and if the answer is "Start at the beginning!" then okay. Alternatively, if you want to pick one or two MM games that distill the essence of the series to most its most perfect form, you can suggest those and I will play them instead.

Edited August 30, 2013 by decado

[BruceVC]

There are two massive RPG series I've never really played: Might and Magic, and Ultima.  I've decided I want to educate myself on the first one, and then move on to the Ultima series.

 

So my question is, where should I start with Might and Magic? And can anyone familiar with the franchise break down the various games and spin-offs?  I've tried to do some research via Wikipedia but there are a lot of games.  

 

This is a Might and Magic thread.  All opinions and/or advice are welcome! Tell me where I should start, and if the answer is "Start at the beginning!" then okay. Alternatively, if you want to pick one or two MM games that distill the essence of the series to most its most perfect form, you can suggest those and I will play them instead.

 

mmm...good question. To be honest I think the early M&M and Ultima's will be too dated for you to enjoy from a graphics and gameplay perspective. Do you have patience? I tried to play the early M&M but I couldn't handle them...so I suppose I'm not the right person to give advice

[Keyrock]

The core series breaks down into two parts:

 

M&M 1-5: Turn-based

 

M&M 6-9: Real-time

 

Then there are the spinoffs:

 

Heroes: Turn-based strategy

 

Crusaders: Garbage

 

Dark Messiah: Action, first person

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'd go for Ultima 7 first, I couldn't ever get into M&M myself.

[BruceVC]

I'd go for Ultima 7 first, I couldn't ever get into M&M myself.

 That's exactly where I would start as well, that's weird how we have  the exact same view on this topic

[LadyCrimson]

Anything specific you were wanting to know? Others are more versed in what's what, I think (I've only played MM7/MM8 and some of MM6) ... but imo they sort of break down into two categories: before MM6, and after MM6.

 

MM8 is the easiest, but it also has the advantage/interest of being able to switch party members in and out at will (when you find them), so you can play with different ones and different party makes ups if you want. Where the others you have to create the full party upon game start and use that party the whole time.

 

MM6 and, reputedly, below MM6 are a lot harder, imo. Quite a lot harder.

 

Edit: The MM series is very action/combat oriented imo. Yes there are quests, yes there are decisions and skills to level and all of that. But it's a whole lot of combat combat combat - eg, it's not like/doesn't play/feel like BG2 or something.

[Gorth]

Watching thread with interest

 

My limited experiences with Might and Magic is really limited to Heroes of Might and Magic III (plus various expansions). That was a turn based strategy game (with light rpg elements) only ever matched by Disciples II in quality.

 

It did a decent job of giving some insight into the setting and the universe though. Unfortunately it didn't give any pointers where to go to scratch your crpg itch (and there are like what, 9-10 M&M titles out now?).

 

Edit: As for Ultima, anything pales compared to Ultima IV (IMNSHO)

[Tigranes]

Ultima VII is a great game and not too dated if you put in a couple hours into it. Sadly, the combat is utterly broken and you are best of pretending that it isn't there and it's just a weird DRM where you have to hold the left mouse button for a while every now and then.

 

M&M is still on my to-do list...

[BruceVC]

 

 

MM6 and, reputedly, below MM6 are a lot harder, imo. Quite a lot harder.

 Can you have a cat hireling in MM6? Also are there any spells that allow you to summon cats ?

[Keyrock]

In my opinion 4-7 is where the core series peaked.  4+5, which can be played as one huge game and collectively known as World of Xeen, are my personal favorites.

 

Heroes is a good series if you're into strategy, it peaked with 3 and has been going slowly, but steadily, down hill ever since.

 

Crusaders is complete and utter garbage, forget it ever existed.

 

Dark Messiah I never could get into, but a lot of people love it.  If nothing else, it features the Ultimate Boot of Fear and Destruction, which is pretty fun.

[decado]

The core series breaks down into two parts:

 

M&M 1-5: Turn-based

 

M&M 6-9: Real-time

 

Then there are the spinoffs:

 

Heroes: Turn-based strategy

 

Crusaders: Garbage

 

Dark Messiah: Action, first person

 

See, this is interesting.  I was under the impression that all of the MM games were turn based strategy, or at least all the older ones.  But it Heroes of MM that are the strat games. Hmm... 

[Keyrock]

 

The core series breaks down into two parts:

 

M&M 1-5: Turn-based

 

M&M 6-9: Real-time

 

Then there are the spinoffs:

 

Heroes: Turn-based strategy

 

Crusaders: Garbage

 

Dark Messiah: Action, first person

 

See, this is interesting.  I was under the impression that all of the MM games were turn based strategy, or at least all the older ones.  But it Heroes of MM that are the strat games. Hmm... 

 

Yes, Heroes was a spinoff that wound up being a bigger deal (at least recently) than the core series, much the same as World of Warcraft.

[decado]

 

There are two massive RPG series I've never really played: Might and Magic, and Ultima.  I've decided I want to educate myself on the first one, and then move on to the Ultima series.

 

So my question is, where should I start with Might and Magic? And can anyone familiar with the franchise break down the various games and spin-offs?  I've tried to do some research via Wikipedia but there are a lot of games.  

 

This is a Might and Magic thread.  All opinions and/or advice are welcome! Tell me where I should start, and if the answer is "Start at the beginning!" then okay. Alternatively, if you want to pick one or two MM games that distill the essence of the series to most its most perfect form, you can suggest those and I will play them instead.

 

mmm...good question. To be honest I think the early M&M and Ultima's will be too dated for you to enjoy from a graphics and gameplay perspective. Do you have patience? I tried to play the early M&M but I couldn't handle them...so I suppose I'm not the right person to give advice

 

 

I like the older games, to a point.  I mean, I still bust out my old Quest for Glory and Bard's Tale copies every now and again. But I fully realize that I may like them purely for the nostalgia value.  So I dunno.

 

The upside to all of this is that these games are incredibly cheap and will most likely be bought in a bundle off of GoG or whatever.  So if they don't pan out, I'm not really out a large chunk of change.

Edited August 30, 2013 by decado

[LadyCrimson]

I liked the real-time of MM7/MM8. I used the pause feature a lot in the dungeons, but outside I'd often just run around firing bows and spells instead. And then of course, later ... flying. Totally breaks the difficulty when outdoors. Invisibility indoors. But it was so much fun. Water and Air magic ftw. Also, MM8, party of dragons. Hahaha...

 

I liked working to get the pedestal challenges, too...it was hard to get them all. And horseshoes. Loved them horseshoes. They made many things possible.

 

Never played the Ultima series. I bought a pack or something off GoG, tried to play one. It seemed ok in the first bits but as usual I was distracted away from it and never went back.

[Hurlshort]

I was a huge fan of M&M games, starting with MM3 in 8th grade and continuing to MM6 in my early 20's.  With the development of MMX I also thought it would be cool to try one of the later releases, so I picked up MM8 for a few bucks on GoG.  Surprisingly it has not aged well at all.  I love to go back to the hand drawn games of the 90's, but for some reason the polygon style of MM8 just killed me.  I found in unplayable.

 

I wish I had bought the earlier ones that were more cartoony, I think they might have been less harsh.  As is, I'd recommend Wizardry 8 over any of the MM games until MMX comes out. 

[LadyCrimson]

What a bunch of graphic ho's we have here!

 

I don't think the graphic aging of MM7/8 would bother me personally. Last time I played them was probably 4-5 years ago and didn't bother me then. Sure they don't look good but imo they never looked good. If larger monitors makes them ickier just play them not full/wide screen or something.

 

My main problem is I played both too much (over-analyzing them for speed runs and other such obsessive things), so I can't play them for very long anymore.

[Zoraptor]

Yep, the later M&Ms were graphically dated even when released. Compared to something roughly contemporary like BG they haven't aged well in appearance at all.

 

The VI+ formula is actually one of the most difficult to describe systems in existence as it sounds terrible but is far greater than the sum of its parts in execution. It's glitchy, 'sploity, ill balanced, looks bad and has a story that is vestigial at best. Yet somehow it is just really fun to play.

[Humanoid]

You should play Might and Magic 4 and 7. And Ultima 4 and 7.

 

 

Huh, funny how that works.

 

 

Detail:

 

Ultima 4 is the oldest recommended title here, and I have to admit the reasons are as much academic curiosity rather than gameplay. As far as I know, it's the first RPG to go beyond the kill everything, loot everything design that had been the sum total of the genre up to that point.

 

Ultima 7 is plainly the best CRPG ever. Ultima 7 Part 2: Serpent Isle is a worthy follow-up if you want more, it's a more directed, less open-world experience, relatively speaking, though it's still pretty dang open compared to anything else.

 

Might and Magic 4 and 5 are two sides of the same coin, and that's meant to be taken literally as well as metaphorically: they happen on the two sides of the titular world, XEEN. Gameplay doesn't really differ, so play four first so you can logically continue to five if you find yourself wanting more. That said, it's largely a moot point: you can install both games into one super-installation that is both games combined.

 

Might and Magic 6 was the return of the series after a fairly lengthy hiatus, during which the developers focused on the first two instalments of the strategy spinoff. Heroes of Might and Magic was so successful that it overshadowed the core series to the extent that it became the core series (and the same happened again when Ubisoft acquired the property, until the recent MM10 reveal, the purchase was solely to continue making the Heroes games). Anyway, unlike its predecessors, it's fundamentally real-time, although it has a pseudo turn-based mode. Might and Magic 7 is essentially the same game, but with some of its more annoying rules streamlined, and is a bit of a tighter experience than the huge, sprawling MM6, hence the recommendation.

[HoonDing]

Only played Heroes of Might & Magic 3-5 + Dark Messiah.

[Lady Evenstar]

I've only completed VI and VII, so I can't speak for the series as a whole, but I think of Might & Magic as an RPG/strategy hybrid rather than as a true RPG. You can play the games simply as open world adventures, but you do get a score at the end based on the efficiency of your play, so if you want a high score you need to keep close track of transit and other schedules and give thought to whether you really want to clear whole areas or only what you need to clear. Of course there may be interesting fountains and obelisks in areas you choose not to clear ... I really enjoy adventuring against the ticking clock, but the games are definitely more about strategic choices than subtle moral ones and character development is about skills and stats, not dialogue choices.

 

I'm currently playing MM VIII and don't enjoy it as much. There are definitely OP classes (dragons!) and the opportunity to trade characters that you pick up early for more developed ones really undermines the point of the game for me. That said, in MM VIII I've been picking up everyone I could and stashing them as mules in the Adventurer's Inn while basically playing with my starter party.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Lady Evenstar

[Keyrock]

The VI+ formula is actually one of the most difficult to describe systems in existence as it sounds terrible but is far greater than the sum of its parts in execution. It's glitchy, 'sploity, ill balanced, looks bad and has a story that is vestigial at best. Yet somehow it is just really fun to play.

Yeah, that's for sure.  The real-time M&M games had some ridiculous exploits, often due to dumb as a bag of rocks (Sorry, bag of rocks) AI.

[Nightshape]

It depends how you are as a gamer - I'd encourage you to go back as far as you can handle with the M&M games.

 

Get the graph paper ready and have at it - it's a lost art that, the whole mapping of levels - and have at it.

 

If anything it'll show you how far games have come, and how hardcore gaming used to be.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Nightshape

[decado]

After reading through the responses, I've decided I'm going to give the World Of Xeen a playthough.  And if I like them, I will move on from there.

 

Regarding Ultima, I was under the impression that the "Best" Ultima game was 8.  I guess I was wrong about that?

[Keyrock]

World of Xeen is a good choice, if for no other reason than it will give you a good idea of what to expect in Might & Magix X, which is currently in development, as that was the game(s) they patterned it after.  In case you had any interest in M&MX.

 

As far as Ultima goes, like with M&M, you'll get a variety of responses as to what the best game is, but, boy, I never thought anyone would mention 8.  7 is the one that's likely most often touted as the best in the series, or 4.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Keyrock

[decado]

World of Xeen is a good choice, if for no other reason than it will give you a good idea of what to expect in Might & Magix X, which is currently in development, as that was the game(s) they patterned it after.  In case you had any interest in M&MX.

 

As far as Ultima goes, like with M&M, you'll get a variety of responses as to what the best game is, but, boy, I never thought anyone would mention 8.  7 is the one that's likely most often touted as the best in the series, or 4.

That could have just been me, forgetting how to read those goddamn Roman numerals.