Dragon Age: Inquisition

[Malekith]

Seriously, guys, no love for Miéville? I think he's at least on par with Sanderson in almost every respects. 

I haven't read him yet, but he is in my list to be read. What do you think of him?

[Malekith]

As for 1/3 of the books being filler (not true), people think that because they only want to read about Rand and thus any book that he is not in they consider it a filler. Wot has the largest amount of named characters and thus is very complex and comprehensive, so yeah it's not everyone's cup of tea, but in no way does that make it filler.

If i never read a line about that idiot never again i would be more than happy. If anything i would prefer he had less screen time. Largest amount of named characters doesn't mean much when all sould the same. Jordan must had a random Aes Sendai name generator installed in his computer.

 

I read the books back to back. until book 5-6 it was fine, if too wordy without reason, a flaw Erikson shares in his latter books. But books 7-10 bleed into one another, and i don't remember where ends one and starts the other. And when i stoped and asked  myself what happened in the whole mess, i couldn't come with a good answer. The situation was the ****ing same as 3 books before. The only thing that changes were the locations of some people,more Aes Sendai groups(that are all the same) introdused, but the plot was completely stale.

 

The 2 annoying girls traveled in a circus for 2 books without reason other than for other characters to catch up in the plot. Perin search for his wife who is kidnaped for god knows how many pages for the same reason.

Watch some interviews from fantasy writers, whenever someone mentions prose and good writing, they will count Robert Jordan among the best. So it's not like I'm talking out of my ass.

The only one that i have seen to regurarly praise Jordan's writing is Sanderson,who is a known fanboy of Jordan. But maybe i don't follow the right writers.

As for you talking about plot being a mess, I don't see it personally, there where no contradictions in the plot and it flowed nicely to the end.

See my first answer. I was talking about the pacing and not of contradictions in the plot. Jordan loses control of his plotlines, and in order for some characters to catch up in their plots, he has ten others sitting in their asses for whole books. Perin chasing Faile,Nynave in the circus, book ten where absolutely nothing happens etc.

I think you are being very biased. What you have to consider is that Wot is an old book and the people who didn't pick it up as their first fantasy probably read a lot of books that followed in the vein of Wot, thus thinking "nothing new" when in fact it was the first to do it. The new books will always refine what the old ones did, but that in no way makes them better.

Maybe. And since you are very biased in favor of WoT, we are a great pair for discusion .

Agreed, when compaired with his clones, i prefer Jordan as well. But my favorite authors are Wolfe,Martin,Erikson,Bakker,Abercrombie,Lloyd,Cook,Donaldson etc.

These authors don't follow Jordan's school, so there isn't about immitators, or who did it first.

[anubite]

Okay, you guys can take your totally irrelevant fantasy writing debate elsewhere.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

Okay, you guys can take your totally irrelevant fantasy writing debate elsewhere.

...ye musta fergot yer MOD tag, did ya??...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Malekith]

 

Okay, you guys can take your totally irrelevant fantasy writing debate elsewhere.

...ye musta fergot yer MOD tag, did ya??...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

 

Yes, but he is right about that. We have gone off-topic.

[Amentep]

I believe that's "driven off the cliff of off-topic mountain, plunging Hollywood style in an exploding car through the thread", to be fair. (just kidding, I was enjoying the debate)

 

That said, China Miéville, an avid RPGer at one point, is often accused of swiping large parts of the PLANESCAPE setting of Sigil for his first novel, PERDIDO STREET STATION.

 

Planescape was the setting used for BIS' PLANESCAPE: TORMENT which used Bioware's Infinity Engine which was also used for Baldur's Gate which Dragon Age: Origins was said to be the spiritual successor to, of which Dragon Age: Inquisition is the second sequel.

 

There back on topic.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Amentep

[Malekith]

I believe that's "driven off the cliff of off-topic mountain, plunging Hollywood style in an exploding car through the thread", to be fair.

So we are on topic after all?

What you describe qualifies as a "cinematic experience"

[Sargallath Abraxium]

I believe that's "driven off the cliff of off-topic mountain, plunging Hollywood style in an exploding car through the thread", to be fair. (just kidding, I was enjoying the debate)

 

That said, China Miéville, an avid RPGer at one point, is often accused of swiping large parts of the PLANESCAPE setting of Sigil for his first novel, PERDIDO STREET STATION.

 

Planescape was the setting used for BIS' PLANESCAPE: TORMENT which used Bioware's Infinity Engine which was also used for Baldur's Gate which Dragon Age: Origins was said to be the spiritual successor to, of which Dragon Age: Inquisition is the second sequel.

 

There back on topic.

...ya can always count on 'Tep ta be our voice o' reason an' guidin' light...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Hurlshort]

Dragon Age Inquisition doesn't come out for another year, so staying strictly on topic would be pretty boring.

 

We were talking about David Gaider and his place as a fantasy writer, so all this fantasy writer talk is plenty relevant.  

[Malcador]

Hm, I realize I barely read much fantasy from this discussion

[HoonDing]

Joe Abercrombie is the best current fantasy writer. I appreciate he doesn't write neverending book series.

[Orogun01]

Dragon Age Inquisition doesn't come out for another year, so staying strictly on topic would be pretty boring.

 

We were talking about David Gaider and his place as a fantasy writer, so all this fantasy writer talk is plenty relevant.  

I think we have firmly established that David Gaider is a fantasy writer.

[Sarex]

-If i never read a line about that idiot never again i would be more than happy. If anything i would prefer he had less screen time. Largest amount of named characters doesn't mean much when all sould the same. Jordan must had a random Aes Sendai name generator installed in his computer.

 

-I read the books back to back. until book 5-6 it was fine, if too wordy without reason, a flaw Erikson shares in his latter books. But books 7-10 bleed into one another, and i don't remember where ends one and starts the other. And when i stoped and asked  myself what happened in the whole mess, i couldn't come with a good answer. The situation was the ****ing same as 3 books before. The only thing that changes were the locations of some people,more Aes Sendai groups(that are all the same) introdused, but the plot was completely stale.

 

-The 2 annoying girls traveled in a circus for 2 books without reason other than for other characters to catch up in the plot. Perin search for his wife who is kidnaped for god knows how many pages for the same reason.

 

-The only one that i have seen to regurarly praise Jordan's writing is Sanderson,who is a known fanboy of Jordan. But maybe i don't follow the right writers.

 

-See my first answer. I was talking about the pacing and not of contradictions in the plot. Jordan loses control of his plotlines, and in order for some characters to catch up in their plots, he has ten others sitting in their asses for whole books. Perin chasing Faile,Nynave in the circus, book ten where absolutely nothing happens etc.Maybe. And since you are very biased in favor of WoT, we are a great pair for discusion .

 

-Agreed, when compaired with his clones, i prefer Jordan as well. But my favorite authors are Wolfe,Martin,Erikson,Bakker,Abercrombie,Lloyd,Cook,Donaldson etc.

These authors don't follow Jordan's school, so there isn't about immitators, or who did it first.

 

 

-Well seeing as you don't like Rand, now I at least get why you don't like Wot. As for the random name generator, I would have to say that every named character had some impact on the story and wasn't there just for the sake of being there.

 

-Ok first about the story. I read Wot about 4-5 times, and each time I figured out something new (an example would be phrases alluding to our time line (cold war) and the Mercedes emblem and lots of more important thing which I won't spoil). I don't think that I ever memorized all the characters, but there where some that did small things in the beginning that where huge later in the series, so yeah the characters mentioned in the book usually served a purpose. The plot was maybe slow paced at times, but only because there was character development happening. I will give you that Jordan was very descriptive, he was also very well know for that, but that is also something that some people like and others don't.(Thou it will help greatly when they make a tv series or a movie XD)

 

-They where traveling through enemy territory with a clear purpose, so I don't get what you mean there.

 

-See what Martin has to say about Jordan.

 

-A important thing to mention there, is that the time lines aren't concurrent for all the characters. For an example one character will be doing something in one book, and then in the next book the other character would be covering the same timeline from his pov.

 

-But those are all different genres, so there is no comparison that can be made, except in the quality of writing where most of the mentioned are on equal footing.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Sarex

[Sargallath Abraxium]

 

I think we have firmly established that David Gaider is a fantasy writer.

 

...jus' not a great one...he needs ta do a story 'bout a half-orc named Karzak...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

If DAI doesn't let me play an Arcane Warrior or equip a Warrior with some kind of ranged weapon, I will teepeee alanshu's house.

[Amentep]

If DAI doesn't let me play an Arcane Warrior or equip a Warrior with some kind of ranged weapon, I will teepeee alanshu's house.

 

But where are you going to get a conical tent of the right size to fit a house in?

[Hurlshort]

Like everyone in Edmonton, alanschu lives in an igloo, so the teepee doesn't need to be that big.

[Azure79]

I always though Alan was an Asian man with the name Alan S. Chu, for some reason. I'm Asian so I must see them everywhere. 

 

I echo ranged and dual wield weapons for warriors please! 

[Amentep]

Like everyone in Edmonton, alanschu lives in an igloo, so the teepee doesn't need to be that big.

 

Well depends, you still need something wide enough to cover the dome as the teepee would narrow.

Wigwam would fit better, to be honest, with its curved structure over an igloo.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Amentep

[Volourn]

"Probably not to what salvatore was during those days, but the last two efforts by him I read sucked hard vacuum."

 

I can't say. haven't read him in a long time. I haven't really read much in a  long time til I started again a few months ago.

 

 

"I echo ranged and dual wield weapons for warriors please!"

 

Agreed. It was dumb to ban them from warriors in DA2. It was completely illogical.

[Malekith]

I think we have firmly established that David Gaider is a fantasy writer.

That is true. He writes as a living, he is publised, so he is. How good he is is irrelevant.

 

 

 

-Well seeing as you don't like Rand, now I at least get why you don't like Wot. As for the random name generator, I would have to say that every named character had some impact on the story and wasn't there just for the sake of being there.

 

But a 14 book series, a "sprawling fantasy epic" with a "cast of thousands" etc.etc.etc. should not depend in sympathize with one single character, unless it's writen in first person.

As for the impact named characters had in the story, i agree only to a point. My problem is that in most cases the amount of screen time some characters had, that was way more than their tiny role in the story.

 

-Ok first about the story. I read Wot about 4-5 times, and each time I figured out something new (an example would be phrases alluding to our time line (cold war) and the Mercedes emblem and lots of more important thing which I won't spoil). I don't think that I ever memorized all the characters, but there where some that did small things in the beginning that where huge later in the series, so yeah the characters mentioned in the book usually served a purpose. The plot was maybe slow paced at times, but only because there was character development happening. I will give you that Jordan was very descriptive, he was also very well know for that, but that is also something that some people like and others don't.(Thou it will help greatly when they make a tv series or a movie XD)

I agree that foreshadowing is the biggest strenght of Jordan's and there are layers in his series. That wasn't what i complained about.

 

 

 

 

-They where traveling through enemy territory with a clear purpose, so I don't get what you mean there.

The amound of pages Jordan wastes is a cituation that doesn't changes and nothing importand happens. The whole thing should be two-three chapters max, not two books.

 

 

-A important thing to mention there, is that the time lines aren't concurrent for all the characters. For an example one character will be doing something in one book, and then in the next book the other character would be covering the same timeline from his pov.

 

Yes. But instead of Jordan leaving the character that doesn't do anything relevant out of the narrative or simply mention him and focus on the active one, he decided too strech the inactive one's arc so he has page time. That is the whole filler in WoT

 

But this has gone long enough in this thread. Let's leave it for a book thread in off topic

Edited August 23, 2013 by Malekith

[Sargallath Abraxium]

Like everyone in Edmonton, alanschu lives in an igloo, so the teepee doesn't need to be that big.

...all that wind up there would cause a need fer multiple layers o' teepee ta weigh it down, though...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Sarex]

"I echo ranged and dual wield weapons for warriors please!"

 

Agreed. It was dumb to ban them from warriors in DA2. It was completely illogical.

 

They did it because they wanted to make a distinction between a warrior and rogue (in da:o a warrior did everything better then a rogue), but the system was not complex enough for that, so they did away with dual wield for warriors.

 

@Malekith

 

I think we just ended up on the matters of taste. It seems that the things you consider filler, I consider quality character development time.

 

Edit for rogue

Edited August 23, 2013 by Sarex

[Azure79]

I always thought the rogue had his own place in DAO. The rogus was a great damage dealer to a single target with momentum, coup de grace and backstabs. Definitely distinctive from a dual wield warrior which I found more effective in dealing damage to a large group of enemies. 

[Volourn]

"They did it because they wanted to make a distinction between a warrior and rouge (in da:o a warrior did everything better then a rouge),"
 

But, this isn't true.