Update #61: In-game Art

[Theedarkcorner]

That looks soooo pretty. It also gives me an idea. If fog of war/view blocking is being implemented then perhaps characters can peak through keyholes, when close enough, to see into the next room. I loved comical moments in BG2 when I'd open a door, see hords of monsters running at me, then close it again. But moments like that require having your party be the only ones that can move through doors, which can be used as a really cheap tactic.

 

Advantages to "sometimes" being able to peak through keyholes:

- level designers can garauntee players get to scout out certain areas where the need to scout might not have been obvious, such as boss battles, to give players a chance to prepare themselves

- can allow players to witness scenes that would have otherwise been interrupted by the player's presence

- can create an unsettling moment when the player opens a door and sees evidence that someone, or something, was spying on them through the keyhole

[Yaruj]

 

The character models only have one shadow cast from the scene's directional light.  Per-character point light shadows (especially multiple point light shadows) would get computationally expensive very fast.  The characters are lit using dynamic lights placed in scene, but real-time lighting is never going to perfectly match the pre-rendered lighting of the scene.

Don't get me wrong, I like the picture. But the game is going to be released in 2015 and dinamic lighting was a "must have" thing a long time ago. I'm affraid that some new age players may find this a good reason not to buy the game. Less sells - less hope for next game.

 

P.S. Sorry for my bad English

[centurionofprix]

I don't think the specifics of shadowing mechanics will affect too many potential customers of PE since the game is being designed and marketed for classic RPG sensibilities in the first place. Single graphical details like this are a bit incidental.

 

The game does use dynamic lighting for illuminating 3D character and environmental models from what I understand, but the character shadows and the pre-rendered backgrounds don't (the latter of which, I'm sure, is exactly how the great majority of PE backers and buyers would have it).

Edited August 10, 2013 by centurionofprix

[Osvir]

 

Shouldn't they all be facing the Animat thing in the middle? It looks like they are expecting the party, but how would they know they are coming? (Unless something happened before that caused them to get alarmed)

 

Picture the room with the glowing tube hidden by FoW; the party enters through the only door into the room and the two nearest creatures immediately turn to face them. In this case it can be more efficient to pre-position the two facing as shown than to put in the code to have them detect the door opening then turn to face the party. Since the room was hidden by FoW, the player sees no difference between the two approaches.

 

I agree that there is little difference when you put it like that.

 

But!

 

There is a difference still. Because entering the room and then getting vision in the Fog of War and then see them turn is quite a different experience from them already looking towards you. Albeit it is a very slight difference, it is still a difference.

 

In example A, which would be as seen in the picture, you imagine them turning towards you. If a dialogue is initated, "text" could symbolize them turning towards you (even if they already are turned towards you). In essence:

 

- "You notice the blood-stained robes, the knifes and axes in hands and the chittering chatter of what seems to be cultists of some kind. Did they sacrifice something? *gulp* Are we the sacrifice? Turning towards your presence, snickering slightly, one of them begins to speak..."

 

In example B, which is what I was trying to picture, they physically turn before the Players eyes. The above example (A) is an indirect presentation, kind of "But lol! He's already facing me!", this example (B) is a direct presentation.

 

- "You notice the blood-stained robes, the knifes and axes in hands and the chittering chatter of what seems to be cultists of some kind. Did they sacrifice something? *gulp* Are we the sacrifice?" [The Cultists turn towards the party] "Turning towards your presence, snickering slightly, one of them begins to speak..."

 

It does set the scene differently. Does it not?

 

Which I will follow up with a question at Obsidian:

 

What kind of aesthetic~choreography are you looking at when setting scenes? Will it be as rjshae presents or will it be "acted" out (so to speak)?

 

An example to better clarify my question, for instance... a Wizard in his Wizards tower, you enter a library (not an enemy but simply a Wizard). He is looking through his books in his bookshelves for things to read or simply looking for a book he thought he had lost.. regardless.. will he be static and pre-positioned and text in the [Dialogue Tab] explaining what he does in his tower as you enter or will you physically see him roam about?

 

Not talking cutscene per say, but simply a matter of "setting the scene". Is it going to be text-heavy or a combination between text and possibly some "acting" by the character models? Will we see head shakes ("No no, I don't know what you are talking about") and nods ("Yes! I've heard about it")? Shrugs ("Maybe") and arm/hand motions ("Why hello there!")?

 

Will characters "act"? That is pretty much the jist of my question.

[Yaruj]

 

I don't think the specifics of shadowing mechanics will affect too many potential customers of PE since the game is being designed and marketed for classic RPG sensibilities in the first place. Single graphical details like this are a bit incidental.

I realy hope that you're right.

For me personaly graphics is not so important. I just want the game to become a new franchise like BG which is impossible without commercial success

[rjshae]

 

 

Shouldn't they all be facing the Animat thing in the middle? It looks like they are expecting the party, but how would they know they are coming? (Unless something happened before that caused them to get alarmed)

 

Picture the room with the glowing tube hidden by FoW; the party enters through the only door into the room and the two nearest creatures immediately turn to face them. In this case it can be more efficient to pre-position the two facing as shown than to put in the code to have them detect the door opening then turn to face the party. Since the room was hidden by FoW, the player sees no difference between the two approaches.

 

There is a difference still. Because entering the room and then getting vision in the Fog of War and then see them turn is quite a different experience from them already looking towards you. Albeit it is a very slight difference, it is still a difference.

 

In example A, which would be as seen in the picture, you imagine them turning towards you. If a dialogue is initated, "text" could symbolize them turning towards you (even if they already are turned towards you). In essence:

 

- "You notice the blood-stained robes, the knifes and axes in hands and the chittering chatter of what seems to be cultists of some kind. Did they sacrifice something? *gulp* Are we the sacrifice? Turning towards your presence, snickering slightly, one of them begins to speak..."

 

In example B, which is what I was trying to picture, they physically turn before the Players eyes. The above example (A) is an indirect presentation, kind of "But lol! He's already facing me!", this example (B) is a direct presentation.

 

- "You notice the blood-stained robes, the knifes and axes in hands and the chittering chatter of what seems to be cultists of some kind. Did they sacrifice something? *gulp* Are we the sacrifice?" [The Cultists turn towards the party] "Turning towards your presence, snickering slightly, one of them begins to speak..."

 

It does set the scene differently. Does it not?, you've inserted an additional element into the scene that wasn't there before: a monologue by the head cultist.

 

Well obviously, since you've inserted an element into the scene that wasn't there before: a monologue by the head cultist. If you want that type of drama, then the additional animation may be warranted. It all depends on how they write up the scene.

[Osvir]

Well obviously, since you've inserted an element into the scene that wasn't there before: a monologue by the head cultist. If you want that type of drama, then the additional animation may be warranted. It all depends on how they write up the scene.

 

Absolutely, but it is also important to note that if the Enemy AI will have any type of "Vision Cone" where they see, if they are facing the door directly it is going to be difficult to sneak by mechanically, unless it is one of those rooms where you just "can't" sneak by.

 

Oh and I am inserting speculation that such an element will be present in this scene. It looks like a Dialogue will start with the Male and Female Cult/Skaen/"Robe-guys-around-the-Animat-Soul-thing" up front when you enter the room.

 

This is what I imagine and speculate when I look at the screenshot:

 

1. You are in front of the door, you have 4-5 triggers.

- A: Click the door -> Open the door (Door opens)

- B: [Thievery] equivalent on the door -> Open the door slightly and take a peek (Door is still closed)

- C: Attack the door -> Kick the door open (Same as A)

- D: Trap the door (Pick Trap -> Click Door)

(Only 1 Door Opening Animation, just noting that I am suggesting something simple)

 

A1: Simple Approach

- Dialogue Pause/Cutscene (As seen in the IE games)

- Choices (A2)

 

A2:

- Talk to the guys inside (They turn around)

- Listen to the guys inside (Gather information)

- Close the door and turn around (They look creepy, stay away/better go back to camp and prepare)

- Use Special Ability/Dialogue Ability/Perk/Trait or something. Example: The Cipher manipulates the Animat Factory to do something~

 

B1: Stealth Approach

- Listen, Look, Limited Vision through Fog of War in the room (more "keyhole = beam-like")*

- Distract/Whistle/Yell/Trick/Knock

- Dialogue Pause/Cutscene (As seen in the IE games)

- Conversation through the door "Hey is there anyone in there" "Yes... who is it?" etc. etc.

 

C1: Aggressive Approach

- Kick the door open (Bash) and engage in battle directly, or a very short Dialogue Pause a la "Wha....? To arms!!!" from the guys inside.

- Makes most noise.

The reason why I look at the picture like this is because it looks like a typical Dialogue Scene has been set up in the room when you enter it. I'm simply trying to expand on possibilities- if this would have been an old-school Text-Only cRPG, this screenshot would've said something like:

 

"You are in front of a door. What do you want to do?"

 

That's how I am looking at it ^^

Post 2-in-1

I also noticed another thing, a suggestion (if Obsidian hasn't already thought of it), there is a piece of cloth hanging on the wall behind the Brown/Leather Armored Party Character (Aumaua?). Could it possibly lead to a secret path? It caught my eye and it looks almost like there could be a hole behind it, and no it's not the shadows from the cloth itself, but if you look on the right side of it, it looks like a stone arch... or is it simply cracks in the wall?

* I came up with a spell. "See Through Doors", but perhaps a better name should be required. Make doors transparent for the eyes of the Wizard. It might sound OP, but I think it could be a cool utilitarian ability.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Decided to see what this would look like with the Baldur's Gate side and bottom bars. Really hope they take advantage of widescreen monitors

 

 

Apologies for the BGEE skin.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Silent Winter]

Decided to see what this would look like with the Baldur's Gate side and bottom bars. Really hope they take advantage of widescreen monitors

[pic]

Apologies for the BGEE skin.

I'd like this kind of layout (though not the BG:EE colouring - more like the IWD or BG2 style).

I like the idea someone had in another thread of the environment intruding on the UI (like making its edges frosty in icy areas).

(The opposite way - having NWN-style floating UI intruding on the game-window spoils the immersion for me - I like a separate screen to look in my pack etc)

[Chrononaut]

 

Too bad those good graphics will be ruined by a horrible "streamlined" UI with no side-bar

Considering the prolification of wide screen 16:9 or 16:10 monitors, if the screen is not mainly side bars, I am concerned that you won't be able to utilize the setting as well as you could.

 

But side-bar UI's scale fine to 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions, as the high-resolution mods for the Infinity Engines clearly show. You just need to make the UI bigger and more detailed than those that were designed for 640x480.

 

Also from a purely thematic POV, side-bar with portraits is much more reminiscent of the IE feel. The IWD2 style single bottom-bar is not unique and thematic because it's the same style that almost all the modern RPG's (well mostly action-RPG's) that followed it used.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Chrononaut

[C2B]

 

 

Too bad those good graphics will be ruined by a horrible "streamlined" UI with no side-bar

 

Considering the prolification of wide screen 16:9 or 16:10 monitors, if the screen is not mainly side bars, I am concerned that you won't be able to utilize the setting as well as you could.

But side-bar UI's scale fine to 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions, as the high-resolution mods for the Infinity Engines clearly show. You just need to make the UI bigger and more detailed than those that were designed for 640x480.

 

Also from a purely thematic POV, side-bar with portraits is much more reminiscent of the IE feel. The IWD2 style single bottom-bar is not unique and thematic because it's the same style that almost all the modern RPG's (well mostly action-RPG's) that followed it used.

Again, which?

 

There's tons of modern rpg's that use a floating UI placement, but a single bottom bar?

 

Dragon Age is the most prominent example of a 'modern' RPG and it doesn't utilize one.

Edited August 11, 2013 by C2B

[Chrononaut]

 

 

 

Too bad those good graphics will be ruined by a horrible "streamlined" UI with no side-bar

Considering the prolification of wide screen 16:9 or 16:10 monitors, if the screen is not mainly side bars, I am concerned that you won't be able to utilize the setting as well as you could.

But side-bar UI's scale fine to 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions, as the high-resolution mods for the Infinity Engines clearly show. You just need to make the UI bigger and more detailed than those that were designed for 640x480.

 

Also from a purely thematic POV, side-bar with portraits is much more reminiscent of the IE feel. The IWD2 style single bottom-bar is not unique and thematic because it's the same style that almost all the modern RPG's (well mostly action-RPG's) that followed it used.

Again, which?

 

There's tons of modern rpg's that use a floating UI placement, but a single bottom bar?

 

Dragon Age is the most prominent example of a 'modern' RPG and it doesn't utilize one.

 

Single-character Action-RPG's, Diablo clones, MMO's, MOBA's.

[C2B]

 

 

 

 

Too bad those good graphics will be ruined by a horrible "streamlined" UI with no side-bar

Considering the prolification of wide screen 16:9 or 16:10 monitors, if the screen is not mainly side bars, I am concerned that you won't be able to utilize the setting as well as you could.

But side-bar UI's scale fine to 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions, as the high-resolution mods for the Infinity Engines clearly show. You just need to make the UI bigger and more detailed than those that were designed for 640x480.

 

Also from a purely thematic POV, side-bar with portraits is much more reminiscent of the IE feel. The IWD2 style single bottom-bar is not unique and thematic because it's the same style that almost all the modern RPG's (well mostly action-RPG's) that followed it used.

Again, which?

 

There's tons of modern rpg's that use a floating UI placement, but a single bottom bar?

 

Dragon Age is the most prominent example of a 'modern' RPG and it doesn't utilize one.

 

Single-character Action-RPG's, Diablo clones, MMO's, MOBA's.

 

You see you say that, but

 

Dungeon Siege III doesn't

 

 

Diablo III doesn't (Well, most of the information is displayed in the bottom bar (which I wouldn't say has the same asthetics as the IWD II one), but still supplemented by floating ui elements.

 

 

WOW doesn't

 

 

League of Legends doesn't

 

 

Well, I guess you could say that all of these games have bottom bars as well (though still somewhat *floating*), but so does Baldur's Gate II. So, I really don't get your point in the sense of *Modern games overflow with single bottom bar UI's.*

Edited August 11, 2013 by C2B

[Sensuki]

And those are all horrible examples, lmao. All popamole derpy games.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Sensuki

[C2B]

And those are all horrible examples, lmao. All popamole derpy games.

Well, yes. But those are the genres he named. What modern RPG has a single bottom bar UI?

Edited August 11, 2013 by C2B

[Chrononaut]

All those games have a dominant bottom-bar, taking exception because they see a few floaty bits at the sides/top is semantics.

[Sarex]

All popamole derpy games.

 

League of Legends?

Edited August 11, 2013 by Sarex

[Sensuki]

 

All popamole derpy games.

 

League of Legends?

 

League of Legends is the absolute trailer trash of MOBAs/aRTS and incorporates Zynga-style ethics (absolute no). DotA is far, far superior (as a competitive game especially).

[Sarex]

League of Legends is the absolute trailer trash of MOBAs/aRTS and incorporates Zynga-style ethics (absolute no). DotA is far, far superior (as a competitive game especially).

 

Yeah, I see someone couldn't get out of bronze.

[Lephys]

Man I'm late... (internet-less vacation'll do that). That gamecap ("gameplay" spliced with "screencap") looks gloriously splendidful! ^_^

 

Also, in full honesty, I think I'd love a career in game QA, but I sadly lack both the proximity AND the credentials to be an Obsidian QA lead. *le sigh*

 

And yes, I know those "YOUR JOB COULD BE PLAYING GAMES ALL DAY!" commercials are just plain silly. I would legit test the crap out of games. Literally. They would be crapless when I was done with them. I'd find so many bugs, you'd think I was an electronic entomologist. 8P

 

Thanks for the update! Can't wait for the Vertical Slice's completion! 8D. I really can't. I'm getting on a plane, right now, and flying east, so as to transport myself into the future. u_u

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Not to be difficult, but would it be a lot of extra work to make at least one character left handed? I think honestly in 30 years of gaming the only left handed character I've ever played as was Link back on the Snes. I really would prefer to choose either or, or dual wielding if applicable, but I just wondered why there was never the option in games.

[Sensuki]

Yeah, I see someone couldn't get out of bronze.

If that was a stab at me, I played it in the beta in 2009 when there were no 'ranked tiers'. I find it funny that you assumed that I tried to play it lost and then called the game ****. At the time Heroes of Newerth was a much more appealing game as it was pretty much not-DotA in a new engine, but it went downhill FAST when it became Free to play and they changed a lot of the core mechanics of the game to try and monetize it.

 

I've played DotA since DotA Allstars 5.54b (back in 2004). League of Legends has succeeded at making a popamole/casual gamer style game out of the basics of DotA and incorporating it with the zynga-style pay2win (or pay to progress) to make it a money-making machine.

 

DotA 2's model is much better with real money only being able to purchase cosmetic items and access to tournaments.

 

LoL is an inferior competitive game compared to DotA 2, there is just no comparison.

 

I am not a great DotA player but I am not terrible, I don't put enough time into it. My game is Call of Duty I guess, I've competed at national level in Australia since 2007 and I placed 1st or 2nd in every tournament my team competed in between 2010-2012 across Call of Duty 2, 4 and Black Ops on PC online and on LAN

Edited August 12, 2013 by Sensuki

[Sarex]

 

Yeah, I see someone couldn't get out of bronze.

If that was a stab at me, I played it in the beta in 2009 when there were no 'ranked tiers'. I find it funny that you assumed that I tried to play it lost and then called the game ****. At the time Heroes of Newerth was a much more appealing game as it was pretty much not-DotA in a new engine, but it went downhill FAST when it became Free to play and they changed a lot of the core mechanics of the game to try and monetize it.

 

I've played DotA since DotA Allstars 5.54b (back in 2004). League of Legends has succeeded at making a popamole/casual gamer style game out of the basics of DotA and incorporating it with the zynga-style pay2win (or pay to progress) to make it a money-making machine.

 

DotA 2's model is much better with real money only being able to purchase cosmetic items and access to tournaments.

 

LoL is an inferior competitive game compared to DotA 2, there is just no comparison.

 

I am not a great DotA player but I am not terrible, I don't put enough time into it. My game is Call of Duty I guess, I've competed at national level in Australia since 2007 and I placed 1st or 2nd in every tournament my team competed in between 2010-2012 across Call of Duty 2, 4 and Black Ops on PC online and on LAN

 

 

I started playing lol pre season 1 also. So I know that it was never pay to win, the whole system was there as a learning curve and pretty much everything you can buy is cosmetic. Runes which are the only thing that could make you win cannot be bought with money.

 

As for lol being inferior to Dota 2 in the competitive scene, well there is not one example that would support that. The LOL e-sport scene is much bigger, the game is much more popular and both games require skill to play.

 

While for me personally lol is better, dota is not by any means a bad game.

 

You are classic example of a Dota fan boy.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Sarex

[Sensuki]

Last I checked you got access to 3 heroes in League of Legends upon starting a new account. You then have to play games to unlock more heroes OR you can choose to buy them. This is (as much as you may try to deny it) Zynga's Monetization model in play. It's not a learning curve man, it's a way to make money. You're kidding yourself if you believe anything otherwise.

 

DotA 2's game mechanics are way more complex and deeper than League of Legends. LoL's community probably is bigger because it's an easier and more accessible game with more game modes than the original DotA-style one just like Dragon Age would be more popular than Baldur's Gate. It also went into full release long before DotA 2 did (which was only like 2 months ago), previously the game was invite only. The amount of unique players per month has jumped from 2 Million to 6 Million over the span of those two months.

 

DotA 2 TI3 concluded today with the biggest first place prize in e-sports history, btw.

 

Sure call me a DotA fan. From the sounds of it you probably weren't around from near the beginning or just don't like all the tricky mechanics like denies *shrug*.

[Raiga]

@Sarex, @Sensuki

 

Not sure how discussing about gameplay mechanics of Dota, Dota 2, League of Legend is relevant to the topic at hand (which is the UI).