Syrian civil war

[kgambit]

 

If you have the stomach look at the entire video in the link and read the article: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b57_1372272008

 

You mean "the footage, said to show Father Francois Murad, 49, as the victim in a brutal summary execution by foreign jihadists is likely to be an older video that bares no relation to the death of the Catholic priest." 

 

"Father Franҫois Mourad, a Syrian, was shot eight times and killed June 23 at a Catholic monastery in Gassanieh, said Friar Pierbattista Pizzaballa, head of the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land."

 

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/02/cnn-exclusive-syrian-monk-not-beheaded-by-rebels-friar-says/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10153954/Priest-beheaded-in-Syria-video-actually-shot-dead.html

 

That doesn't mean he was not killed by anti-Assad rebels.  Just not in the way the video depicts. 

[Hildegard]

 

 

If you have the stomach look at the entire video in the link and read the article: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b57_1372272008

 

You mean "the footage, said to show Father Francois Murad, 49, as the victim in a brutal summary execution by foreign jihadists is likely to be an older video that bares no relation to the death of the Catholic priest." 

 

"Father Franҫois Mourad, a Syrian, was shot eight times and killed June 23 at a Catholic monastery in Gassanieh, said Friar Pierbattista Pizzaballa, head of the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land."

 

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/02/cnn-exclusive-syrian-monk-not-beheaded-by-rebels-friar-says/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10153954/Priest-beheaded-in-Syria-video-actually-shot-dead.html

 

That doesn't mean he was not killed by anti-Assad rebels.  Just not in the way the video depicts. 

 

 

Don't even matter who this poor people were that got executed in the video, priests, clerks or farm workers. That Sunni extremist bunch funded and backed by SA and indirectly by the West are killing innocent people in Syria based on their religion and ethnic background like these people: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/25/shock-video-allegedly-shows-al-qaeda-linked-terrorists-stopping-truck-drivers-on-side-of-road-then-executing-them-for-not-being-sunni-muslims/ To them this is Jihad in which they get a chance to kill the infidels. These are the same bunch the US fought and struggled in the Sunni triangle, the same ones that were destroyed and mostly kicked out of Iraq by the Sunni moderates when they saw they were just about killing pretty much everyone without any regard. And when I think of Chemical weapons, nerve gas, I don't have a hard time picturing people like in these videos using them on Shia infidels.   

[Guard Dog]

Well, GD. With respect for your normal good sense, you will need to try a bit harder to convince me that the rebels are all terrorists.

Well the Syrian Liberation Front and Syrian Islamic Front are both backed by Hezbollah according to the BBC & Reuters. The Al-Nursura brigade in the south has come out and publicly pledged loyalty to Al-Qaeda. Between the three they have some 60k fighters and are far more organized and better armed than the one group me MIGHT be able to work with, the Free Syrian Army. If Assad is deposed do you think these three groups who all want different things will site down and compromise on a government? Do you think there will be a vote? No, they will do what they do best in the Middle East, start killing each other. And everyone else in the way. Why in the world should we expend our blood and treasure to make that happen? And anything that hurts Assad helps them.

[Guard Dog]

 

Syrian SAM defence shut down F-22 Raptor.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f4_1377959586

 

 

 

Liveleak source has more holes than a sieve: 

 

There is no newspaper called the Oklahoma Post

A google search of John Blue Reed the alleged defense expert finds nothing

There were no Tomahawk launches from the Med.  The two observed "ballistics" were likely from the Israeli Sparrow Missile Test.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/world/middleeast/israel-us-missile-mediterranean.html?_r=0

 

The picture is of an F-22 Raptor that crashed outside of Nellis AFB on Wednesday, Dec. 22, 2004.

And here's two shots of the original

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/happyhappyjoyjoy/1302616031/

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?113454-F-22-crash-video   (scroll down to post #11 on 06-05-2007 by He219 )

 

 

According to multiple sources, the S-300 system has not been delivered (yet) . 

 

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/09/01/report-russia-suspends-delivery-of-s-300-missile-defense-system-to-syria/

http://rt.com/news/syria-s-300-delay-russia-277/

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2013/07/22/Syrian-deputy-PM-set-for-Russia-talks-as-violence-rages.html

 

And the S-400 is not yet available for export

 

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070823/73849589.html

 

Got to be one of the lamest troll attempts I've seen, Oby.   

 

Oby is getting lazy in his old age!

[obyknven]

Few years ago John Kerry is best  friend of Bashar al-Assad

 

Typical USA-style "friendship". Today Americans pretend be your "friends", but tomorrow they kill all your family, invade your country and destroy your nation.

Peaceful coexistence with such aggressive treacherous conquerors is нот possible, WWIII will happen anyway.

 

Meanwhile Russia send moar military ships in Mediterranian Sea.

[kgambit]

 

Well, GD. With respect for your normal good sense, you will need to try a bit harder to convince me that the rebels are all terrorists.

Well the Syrian Liberation Front and Syrian Islamic Front are both backed by Hezbollah according to the BBC & Reuters. The Al-Nursura brigade in the south has come out and publicly pledged loyalty to Al-Qaeda. Between the three they have some 60k fighters and are far more organized and better armed than the one group me MIGHT be able to work with, the Free Syrian Army. If Assad is deposed do you think these three groups who all want different things will site down and compromise on a government? Do you think there will be a vote? No, they will do what they do best in the Middle East, start killing each other. And everyone else in the way. Why in the world should we expend our blood and treasure to make that happen? And anything that hurts Assad helps them.

 

 

GD, any chance you have a link from either Reuters or the BBC claiming that Hezbollah is supporting either the Syrian Liberation Front or the Syrian Islamic Front?  It would surprise me since Hezbollah has been providing support and ground troops to Assad.  It's not out of the realm of possibility that they (Hez) would play both sides, but I don't recall reading anything that supported that notion.

 

Al-Nusra and the Al-Qaeda is a given but they represent a small fraction (at least according to my sources) of the total opposition.

 

FWIW, here are some links that I found that break down the opposition into it's component parts with an overprint on their ideologies and funding as opposed to using a broad brush to characterize the entire oppositions as "terrorists" or "Jihadists".

 

http://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/The-Free-Syrian-Army-24MAR.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15798218

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

http://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/opposition-advances-damascus

Edited September 3, 2013 by kgambit

[kgambit]

 

 

 

If you have the stomach look at the entire video in the link and read the article: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b57_1372272008

 

You mean "the footage, said to show Father Francois Murad, 49, as the victim in a brutal summary execution by foreign jihadists is likely to be an older video that bares no relation to the death of the Catholic priest." 

 

"Father Franҫois Mourad, a Syrian, was shot eight times and killed June 23 at a Catholic monastery in Gassanieh, said Friar Pierbattista Pizzaballa, head of the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land."

 

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/02/cnn-exclusive-syrian-monk-not-beheaded-by-rebels-friar-says/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10153954/Priest-beheaded-in-Syria-video-actually-shot-dead.html

 

That doesn't mean he was not killed by anti-Assad rebels.  Just not in the way the video depicts. 

 

 

Don't even matter who this poor people were that got executed in the video, priests, clerks or farm workers. That Sunni extremist bunch funded and backed by SA and indirectly by the West are killing innocent people in Syria based on their religion and ethnic background like these people: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/25/shock-video-allegedly-shows-al-qaeda-linked-terrorists-stopping-truck-drivers-on-side-of-road-then-executing-them-for-not-being-sunni-muslims/ To them this is Jihad in which they get a chance to kill the infidels. These are the same bunch the US fought and struggled in the Sunni triangle, the same ones that were destroyed and mostly kicked out of Iraq by the Sunni moderates when they saw they were just about killing pretty much everyone without any regard. And when I think of Chemical weapons, nerve gas, I don't have a hard time picturing people like in these videos using them on Shia infidels.   

 

 

My points were:  a) It does matter when the video is distorted (or faked) and used as evidence of a crime (in this case against Christians).  and b) Liveleak is generally a crap source. 

 

I'm not going to get into a discussion on the ideologies or fundings of the various opposition groups.  I don't think it would productive. I'll concede as I already have that there are certainly terrorists merged in with opposition.  Al-Nusra and it's links to Al-Qaeda are no secret.  I just don't believe they represent the majority. YMMV

[Sannom]

I'm not going to get into a discussion on the ideologies or fundings of the various opposition groups. I don't think it would productive. I'll concede as I already have that there are certainly terrorists merged in with opposition. Al-Nusra and it's links to Al-Qaeda are no secret. I just don't believe they represent the majority. YMMV.

They probably never represent the majority. However, it seems that in most of those conflicts, the islamists are always the loudest, most agressive, best organized, best armed and best funded group among the rebels. You never know where Western money and arms go, but you can be sure that Saudi Arabia, the Qatar and Turkey make damn certain that their help goes to the sunni extremists.

[Zoraptor]

I'm sorry I can't find a link about the story I've read once where most pro-rebel videos from Syria come via office in London under the control of a certain Syrian immigration. 

Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, most likely. An utterly partial propaganda organisation (allegedly funded by MI6) that was run by a single person from his basement in Coventry (?) but regarded as the Last Word by many media outlets because they collated and showed what they wanted in a convenient way plus had a 'nice' authoritative sounding name, as opposed to less partial organisations that weren't quite so prone towards saying what people wanted to hear like HRW.

[Blodhemn]

 

There is a problem because we have no business interfering, picking and choosing the good guys from the bad. They just want Assad out because he doesn't bend over and kiss their collective asses. 

 

 

It was the same with Hussein, Milosevic, and a host of other, previously western supported leaders. For as long as they did what they were told everything was fine and they could do what they wanted unchecked, when they eventually held enough power to lead their own politics they became a barrier to US political and business interests.

 

The US found out that its much easier to have all or most sides in a quasi democracy on your payroll while playing them against each other than it is to control one man who is not entirely spineless. With his back against the wall he will fight (like Assad is doing) - with a pretend democracy you can always blackmail or pay off someone, somewhere to get the government to collapse.

 

So yeah. This was is about Assad being an independent leader in an area where everyone else is a US puppet or vassal.

 

Neighboring countries:

Turkey - NATO vassal

Iraq - occupied territory

Israel - US policy maker/ally

Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc. - all US puppets

 

Syria and Iran are the only strictly independent and sovereign countries left in the region. If I was in Iran I'd be pretty worried now. Specifically about 6 years from now.

 

Unless the whole Syria thing escalates into something more.

 

Yeah, it's all too transparent at this point. I just don't understand how some people are so willing to be told the same story over and over and simply go along with it. It's just mind boggling. If anyone listens to congress, they're all spouting the same crap as usual. They're actually calling Assad the jihadi terrorist now. Hahahahahahaha.

[Gorgon]

So anyone engaged in a strategic alliance is a vassal now. What is Kazakhstan then. How about Georgia. Why is it better to have so much stink on you that no one will ally with you.   

 

Paul Wolfowitz is not dictating US forgein policy anymore. As already pointed out the cost is too great and the sense of adventure and willingness to out troops in harms way is entirely gone. 

[Zoraptor]

Meh, any country that kowtows to the US line no matter what is a vassal, to all practical purposes. It doesn't matter if you're put in chains or put them on yourself, you're still a slave even if you don't acknowledge it.

 

Wolfowicz, Dumsfeld et alia were not the real problem in any case, they were the symptom. The current admin is trotting out exactly the same stuff as last time almost down to the word. Same vague "trust us" information, same promises of quick, glorious victory at no cost and no risk, same WMD justification. Only difference is instead of Ronald Dumsfeld saying "We know where they are! Trust Us!" you have JFK the far far far lesser saying "We know they've been used and who used them! Trust us! I'm OUTRAEGED!!!" and the wrapping is less overtly bellicose and imperialistic, dressed up in the political necessity of apparent reluctance. Same feeble, expatriate political facade group set up mainly to appease foreigners rather than Syrians to take over which is disconnected from the reality of the situation, same (worse really) sectarian problems, same 'coalition' of lickspittles, same reliance on intelligence sources with no equivocation, same it's OK for some to have WMD (and even use them without even a skerrick of doubt, cue more Kerry OURAEG!!! at ten minutes to never) but not others. I find it completely plausible that there are plenty of the more informed US military personnel who will not be very happy at all with fighting for 10+ years against the Taliban in Afghanistan to then be asked to fight for the Taliban-with-good-PR in Syria.

 

The ultimate problem with US foreign policy is the "Trust us, we know what we're doing" attitude. And in reality land we don't get to have a prequel season after Mr Hammer fails to defuse the nuke.

[pseudonymous]

Same vague "trust us" information, same promises of quick, glorious victory at no cost and no risk, same WMD justification. Only difference is instead of Ronald Dumsfeld saying "We know where they are! Trust Us!" you have JFK the far far far lesser saying "We know they've been used and who used them! Trust us! I'm OUTRAEGED!!!" and the wrapping is less overtly bellicose and imperialistic, dressed up in the political necessity of apparent reluctance.

 

Umm... no.  Just no.  Turn off cable news, stop listening to that drug addict Limbaugh, shutdown your computer, go outside, take a deep breath, and gain some perspective. 

[obyknven]

[Drowsy Emperor]

Actually Zoraptor's observation is quite accurate. The similarities are so many that at this point the propaganda is so worn out its only any good for internal use. Even Americans aren't buying it, if they're asked directly and not ethically "blackmailed" by the chemical weapons nonsense.

 

If it wasn't so terrible it would actually be amusing, the way Obama drew the line for intervention at chemical weapons and Assad, if you trust CNN, happily obliged to use them just a week later.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I have no clue what the Russians are doing at this point. I suppose they sent the ships to protect their naval base against "accidents"

[Malcador]

I have no clue what the Russians are doing at this point. I suppose they sent the ships to protect their naval base against "accidents"

Don't want things accidentally bombed, after all. Also I guess it plays well at home to make a show of that - standing up to the West or something along those lines.

[Gfted1]

Puhlease, the Russian navy would be swept from the sea in days. Maybe Oby can link a picture of some WWII carrier burning and try to pass it off as Russia sinking something.

 

Aside, I found it interesting that the four countries represented on the map all have red, white and blue flags, just in different orientations.

[HoonDing]

[Hildegard]

 

I'm sorry I can't find a link about the story I've read once where most pro-rebel videos from Syria come via office in London under the control of a certain Syrian immigration. 

Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, most likely. An utterly partial propaganda organisation (allegedly funded by MI6) that was run by a single person from his basement in Coventry (?) but regarded as the Last Word by many media outlets because they collated and showed what they wanted in a convenient way plus had a 'nice' authoritative sounding name, as opposed to less partial organisations that weren't quite so prone towards saying what people wanted to hear like HRW.

 

 

Thanks for that info, I couldn't remember their name. And a good last post!

 

In other news, Syrian Army has taken control of the strategic town of Ariha and by doing so killed approximately around 390 members of the Al-Nusra movement according to some other reports http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09/03/321889/syrian-forces-retake-strategic-town/

 

 

EDIT - just a note that a few days ago pro FSA media reports were trolling how Assad's forces are cut off in that town and going on about their great offensive. So much about clear facts from the ground. 

Edited September 4, 2013 by Hildegard

[Walsingham]

Settle down, Zor. It's stretching the definition of slave to suggest that playing the US' game makes you a slave.

 

The important part about being a slave is that you don't have a choice. It's not like millions of Africans were shipped overseas because they thought that in the long run they'd benefit from improved trade, security, and investment opportunities.

[obyknven]

 

All talks about importance of Russian military base in Syria make me lol. This base is consist from two small supply depots, even without military personnel. Anyway any military base in Mediterranean sea quite useless until Russia don't control Mediterranean Straits.

 

Importance of Syria for Russia is another. Syria is a Trap created by Russians for USA. As Che-Guevara say: "Create two, three… many Vietnams, that is the watchword.” US government do everything as planned.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

I have no clue what the Russians are doing at this point. I suppose they sent the ships to protect their naval base against "accidents"

Don't want things accidentally bombed, after all. Also I guess it plays well at home to make a show of that - standing up to the West or something along those lines.

 

 

Its a wonder how quiet the Chinese are too. They took the loss of their assets in Libya (I read they had something in oil there, a concession or whatever) without so much as a blink.

 

But their first aircraft carriers haven't started rolling out yet so that might be less surprising. You can't really play poker without cards after all.

[Hildegard]

Came across an article that drew my attention in which Kerry admits there are many Al Qaeda leaders in Syria at the moment. I was under the impression he used different rhetoric in front of the commission the other day. Here's the article: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/kerry-admits-many-al-qaeda-leaders-now-operating-syria

 

Things I should point out that Kerry said:

 

''where President Barack Obama decided two months ago to provide military support to rebel forces fighting alongside al Qaeda to overthrow the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Asad.'

 

and

 

''In December 2012, the Obama administration designated the Nusra Front as a Foreign Terrorist Organization and as an alias of al-Qaida in Iraq," said CRS. "Reactions from some Syrian opposition leaders and armed groups were negative. Several armed groups made statements of solidarity with al-Nusra, and prominent civilian figures, including then-President [Ahmed] Khateeb of the SOC [syrian Opposition Coalition], requested that the U.S. government reconsider the designation."

 

''In June, six months after his administration designated the Nusra Front an al Qaeda alias and terrorist group, President Obama decided to provide military support to the Syrian opposition. ''

 

So let me get this right:

 

1. US declares Al Nusra a terrorist organization affiliated with Al Qaeda

2. FSA and other rebel fractions are mad about it and protest

3. Different fractions declare solidarity with Al Nusra

4. US six months after continues to provide military and other support anyways 

 

Makes sense. 

 

 

[Drowsy Emperor]

Nothing new. The albanian UCK was designated as a terrorist organization by the State Department (?) right up to the bombing of '99. With ties to islamic fundamentalism no less.

 

Didn't stop the US supporting them.

 

The business interests that drive US foreign policy have a habit of ignoring their own intelligence organizations whenever they do their job - in other words, speak the truth.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Drowsy Emperor