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Romance, Marriage, Pregnancy and having Children.


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Funny thing is despite all these discussions and evidence that the majority of people want some form of Romance\Sex I still see some of the more regular members opposed to the concept :unsure:

Generally speaking, when we discussed this before, the main points - and I feel they are fair - come down to:

  • games aren't best designed to take into account complex human interactions ("Hi, I'm so glad to meet you, is that an Amulet of Mara?" *sexy wink*)
  • romance/sex isn't practical in most situations ("Hey baby, after 2 days in the sewer of the Unholy Underground City of Pestilence, I'm feeling a bit randy. Fancy a roll in the hay?" "Sure!" *rips off clothes*)
  • romance tends to curtail the viability of joinable NPCs (Romance dialogue translates to 30 pages of text. Non-Romance dialogue translates to a fortune cookie)

 

 

 

I hear you but for every point around why the implementation of Romance\Sex is impractical I can give 2-3 counter arguments why its not, so the debate goes on. This should then boil down to what the majority of fans want. And since we know the majority of fans do want it then some form of Romance\Sex should be implemented in PE, so there is no issue :yes:  Its more about people just accepting the reality of the situation

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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This should then boil down to what the majority of fans want.

I hope it doesn't. I hope it boils down to what works for the game obsidian is designing and not a "well the masses wanted this, so lets fling it at them". Because that approach never goes down well.

 

Also since romance is a singular emotional outlet, I think its possible to create a narrative that just doesn't sustain it. As long as the NPCs are interesting and responsive in their relationship to the PC and the remainder of the party, I don't think there has to be a romance in the game. Romance is a spice, not what you're cooking (unless you're making a romance/dating sim) so its not necessary by any means.

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This should then boil down to what the majority of fans want.

I hope it doesn't. I hope it boils down to what works for the game obsidian is designing and not a "well the masses wanted this, so lets fling it at them". Because that approach never goes down well.

 

Also since romance is a singular emotional outlet, I think its possible to create a narrative that just doesn't sustain it. As long as the NPCs are interesting and responsive in their relationship to the PC and the remainder of the party, I don't think there has to be a romance in the game. Romance is a spice, not what you're cooking (unless you're making a romance/dating sim) so its not necessary by any means.

 

 

I agree its not necessary but then we could start excluding many things that aren't necessary, who would decide what's necessary? A very important objective to Obsidian would be the overall sales figures of PE. So logically they would want to make a game that appeals to the widest audience without compromising there core principles. So by excluding Romance\Sex just because a small but vociferous group of fans object to it makes no business sense. Of course PE will still sell well without Romance\Sex but by including it you will only increase the fan base. The success of Bioware games are testament to this formula

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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and how they add to the realism of party interaction

o rly?

 

The thing that comes closest to this is soldiers in the field, so it would be interesting to know what their behaviour tends to be like in this regard nowadays, where men and women often serve together. Do they foster romances? Do they even tend to have sexual relations with each other? Do they tend to drift off into deeply emotional discussion?

 

Unless these questions are answered and someone can tell me why this is also how it should be in RPGs, I'll continue to view CRPG romance as highschool fantasy roleplaying.

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Ok, did I miss something?

When was this poll that Obsidian send out to all the Kickstarter backers quizzing them on their preferences regarding romance/sex/marriage in the game?

Did they weight the pros and cons of implementing any of those? Can I see the results?

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I agree its not necessary but then we could start excluding many things that aren't necessary, who would decide what's necessary?

 

Obviously the game being designed determines what is and isn't necessary. Which is in Obsidian's hands.

 

 

The thing that comes closest to this is soldiers in the field

I'm not sure that really compares to the adventuring party.

 

Its probably more like Marco Polo traveling to the east combined with Howard Carter discovering Tutankhamen's tomb laced together with the Conquistadors running roughshod through the Americas with just a dash of hot military army-on-army action and the occasional purchasing of supplies from the locals and terrorizing their livestock for flavor.

 

Or, imagine maybe more practically its like an old military clipper where the hard work and long hours might not lead to anything happening during the tour (although not impossible either) but shore leave tends to be where the action was at, so to speak.

Edited by Amentep
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How I feel about this post right now, this came to mind and seems to fit. I mean romance bad, murder okay? Double standards but that is common this subject.

 

 

 

 

Lets use this as common ground for the popularity of romance mods.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/romanticencounters/

 

“Romantic possibilities are endless. It could be a bit of flirting. Or several. Some innuendo. A lovers' quarrel. A one-night stand. Or even several nights together - with a 'morning after' and without. A dream. Or something else?”

 

“We are attempting to give the protagonist of the game Baldur's Gate II these opportunities. Some of the encounters are not explicit (PG-13, teen content), some have adult content.”

 

23065 downloads (9988 views)
Updated 20 Aug 2012

 

That was uploaded almost a year ago and has a lot of downloads for a game that is really old now.

 

Some people that play RPG's also play it for the romance. I am just stating that I feel romance has a place in games like this, and there is fan base for it.

 

Perhaps love was to strong a word but I do remember the romance fondly, and I did experience it as a 14 year old boy, so maybe that's why I feel so strongly about it? I don't know, was a cool gaming experience none the less. That is also were I found my love for the Drow race, not only are they incredibly strong, they are very unique in a game setting. Viconia's romance was like a double edge sword, I felt like I was playing with fire every time I spoke with her.

 

(For my Avatar, I re-textured the Anna the Nymph art work from NWN 1 to look like a Drow).

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I'm not sure that really compares to the adventuring party.

 

Its probably more like Marco Polo traveling to the east combined with Howard Carter discovering Tutankhamen's tomb laced together with the Conquistadors running roughshod through the Americas with just a dash of hot military army-on-army action and the occasional purchasing of supplies from the locals and terrorizing their livestock for flavor.

 

Or, imagine maybe more practically its like an old military clipper where the hard work and long hours might not lead to anything happening during the tour (although not impossible either) but shore leave tends to be where the action was at, so to speak.

I think neither Marco Polo's expedition or the crew of a navy ship are valid comparisons, numbers being one thing. The dynamics are simply different in a small group of 6 people max. While it may be more intimate in a way, OTOH no one can really let their guard down while you're a) in hostile territory or b) navigating the seedy underbelly of a medieval city/ prancing about on the slippery ground of feudal politics, and RPG companies tend to be always at a or b.

I think where my example falls short is that, with adventuring companies, they make their own rules, i.e. no one tells you that you can't have sex or hold hour long discussions of your traumatic past. They could do that.

 

I think time is a critical factor; most RPGs don't have a timed main quest. You can take all your sweet ass time. I guess that when you are whiling away the time resting in a grove for days, some romance may start to blossom.

But this is usually at odds with the story; you're supposed to get somewhere or someone, or else. Drastic consequences etc. That's why I find it so irritating when all of a sudden, someone's petty private life takes center stage.

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In the interest of not being in here just to drink tears, I'll use this statement to make a point. The biggest problem IMO isn't romance, it is self-insertation. You aren't the PC. The PC is a fictional character and is not your alter ego or whatever. You can create a PC that is like you(despite living in a fictional world and likely being idealized), but that is a character and not you. The relationships that character has are not your own, and being friends(or romancing or being hated enemies) with a fictional character is weird.

 

 

You see that's where we disagree to a certain degree. Unless someone is suffering from some sort of mental ailment I think we all know that your character in a RPG is just a pixel and software code creation of developers. We all know its not real. But that's not the point or the point of RPG. We identify and see ourselves as the characters in this epic journey and we do consider the choices we make as choices that have consequence in changing this virtual  world that we immerse ourselves in for dozens of hours. We "role-play" for a number of reasons like escapism and excitement. But I never presume to tell people what there RP experience should be as this is completely subjective and personal. I fail to see anything weird around the effort or time someone puts into there game and how they choose to discuss or demonstrate this effort.

 

For some people just the thought of adults spending time on a website discussing a game that isn't even released would be considered pointless and weird so we should be careful with our judgments :)

I hate to pull this card but, have you been to the Bioware forums? Posters there are obsessively attached to characters to the point of building effigies.

 

To your point, I wasn't claiming that you can't relate to or empathize with a character. I was claiming that seeing yourself as the PC is wrong and that the NPCs have a relationship with the PC not the player. I don't think PE needs romance, but I won't lose sleep or bitch about Sawyer if it is included.

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I agree its not necessary but then we could start excluding many things that aren't necessary, who would decide what's necessary? A very important objective to Obsidian would be the overall sales figures of PE. So logically they would want to make a game that appeals to the widest audience without compromising there core principles. So by excluding Romance\Sex just because a small but vociferous group of fans object to it makes no business sense. Of course PE will still sell well without Romance\Sex but by including it you will only increase the fan base. The success of Bioware games are testament to this formula

 

It may just so happen that in their view including romance more or less for the hell of it might in fact compromise their core principles, especially when you put it that way by alluding to the success of Bioware RPGs, which in my opinion Project Eternity has little business imitating (assuming you mean recent titles like Dragon Age and Mass Effect).

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Romances with characters like Fall-From-Grace or Atton when you see that the intent of their actions has some romantic interest behind it felt way more genuine and memorable to me than any full on romance in a game. They just feel more real. Having a child struck me as being hilarious even when I was 13, so fight the urge to put something like that in with all the fire and acid you can muster.

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Back in my days we didn't have those fancy-schmancy romances or graphics. We had to do with our immagination and we liked it!

We also had to go barefoot to school...both ways. During the winter snow. On Sundays!

 

 

 


I hear you but for every point around why the implementation of Romance\Sex is impractical I can give 2-3 counter arguments why its not, so the debate goes on.

 

I kinda doubt that.

I am curious as to what those counter-argumnets would be.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

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Back in my days we didn't have those fancy-schmancy romances or graphics. We had to do with our immagination and we liked it!

We also had to go barefoot to school...both ways. During the winter snow. On Sundays!

 

 

 

I hear you but for every point around why the implementation of Romance\Sex is impractical I can give 2-3 counter arguments why its not, so the debate goes on.

 

I kinda doubt that.

I am curious as to what those counter-argumnets would be.

 

No problem, give me some reasons why the implementation of Romance\Sex in PE is impractical or can't be done?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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When well written, romances help develop the protagonist and provide opportunities for drama, humor, and character exploration. But when they go wrong, they fall deep into the uncanny valley, with nauseating results. 

 

Now, if I was writing an RPG, or advising a novice, I'd say not to bother with romances. There's very real potential gains, but they're not worth the risk. But the PE team aren't me. They're veterans who I trust to make the right call for their abilities and what they feel comfortable with.

 

As for the emotional reactions I have to a well written video game romance? I tend to refer to my PCs as "him/her" instead of "me," but I do get a bit attached to the little chunks of code. So when my PCs get into a romance at my prodding, I feel the same way I do any time a fictional character I like gets in a romance -- an empathetic "good for them," a curiosity to see where it ends up going and what hidden depths are revealed, but not much stronger.

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Oh dear. This again.

 

Zalpha, you have encountered a somewhat hostile reaction to creating this thread, but that is because this is an incredibly long-running and controversial subject here. This has been talked about since the very first day the Project Eternity Kickstarter was launched, in September from the past year. Think about it. This topic has been debated in these forums for roughly nine months, there are literally dozens of threads about it (Amentep's list was not complete), and many of them have been closed because they exceeded the length limit per thread. A lot of debate has been had, and lots of things of variable insight and niceness have been said :\

 

This might be a little unfair to you, since you are a newcomer here. But it's wise to be aware of all the reasons that have made people tired of discussing romances, and it is understandable that they aren't very keen on seeing it again.

 

Now that this is out of the way, I don't think that anyone here thinks the topics of love or romance are bad by themselves. They do, however, have many grievances about what surrounds them, about the way they have usually been implemented, and about the overzealous drive that some fans show when they push for their inclusion. Bioware has been mentioned already, haven't they? It's gotten to the point in their forums where feedback from fans has become so relentlessly insistent about this topic that it's comparable to lobbying, and many fans there are so singleminded and pushy about this that they are comparable to addicts. A harsh comparison, I know, but the symptoms match.

 

Again, this might be a little unfair to you, since you don't have that kind of behavior. But it's wise to be aware of all the factors that have made people wary of romances. All of them.

 

About the grievances themselves: The point of fan behavior is not something that should concern Obsidian, but nonetheless it is wise for us fans to be aware of it, so that there is some perspective about why these discussions can be so volatile. The point of badly implemented romances is, indeed, something of concern, and has been dissected at large in the various threads that have been linked here. Some of these points have been brought up in this thread, too.

 

So, on to answer various questions here.

 

 

 

I am interested in marriage, romance and fathering (mothering? Doesn't seem right to fright with child) offspring. I find this intriguing and am interested if the option will ever be present, on launch, DLC or hopefully a mod (don't know if the game will be mod-able, let me know if it is please :D).

 

Project Eternity will be as mod-friendly as possible.

 

Some people that play RPG's also play it for the romance. I am just stating that I feel romance has a place in games like this, and there is fan base for it.

 

Nobody questions that. The main point of contention I've seen is that romances have this tendency to overshadow many other companion interactions and story elements. Sure, some people love them, but if their presence could be harmful to the experience of other players, surely you can understand why they would oppose them.

 

How can they be harmful if they're optional, you might ask? Sometimes it's because the characters lose depth and reactivity in their overall interactions, because that is reserved for the romance path. Sometimes it's because their optionality is "pursue romance path or have nothing else to do with a certain character", which is not an equal choice and not very optional, actually. Sometimes it's because the story has to bend over awkwardly in order to acommodate their presence. The points are various and I don't remember them all, but they are legitimate points, and should not be ignored.

 

Some people have tried to come up with solutions, with ways to build a romance path that also pleases the people who aren't interested in that content. But they haven't been embraced by many, and they have been lost in the sea of posts and flames. How many times has BruceVC said something along the lines of "yes, I understand what you say, but I still want to have lots of hot bikini-clad women I can romance and have sex with" in the various threads around this forum? Making sacrifices for the sake of other people's game experience is hard, both for antiromancers AND for proromancers, and when the topic in question is something as emotionally charged as romances, expecting consensus is pretty much wishful thinking.

 

 

 

And now to you, Bruce.

 

A very important objective to Obsidian would be the overall sales figures of PE. So logically they would want to make a game that appeals to the widest audience without compromising there core principles. So by excluding Romance\Sex just because a small but vociferous group of fans object to it makes no business sense. Of course PE will still sell well without Romance\Sex but by including it you will only increase the fan base. The success of Bioware games are testament to this formula.

 

Actually, Avellone has gone on record saying that financial success is not that important to them. There are several interviews of him where he has said that. Here's the most recent one.

 

The reasoning is this: thanks to Kickstarter, Obsidian doesn't have to return any monetary investment. If they manage their budget well and don't pull a Double Fine, they're already even, and any sales made are net profit for them on top of the rest of income Obsidian makes. He'd like the game to sell well, sure, but that's because it's the kind of game he loves to make and would like to continue doing so, not because he wants to get rich. That means that he wants it to be a game he likes doing. And Avellone has also gone on record expressing his dislike for romances.

 

The point is, sales or popularity aren't really that important to the developers. Therefore, these arguments are irrelevant when arguing for the inclusion of a feature.

 

Now, if you've read the interview, you're probably thinking "Hey, he wants the backers to be happy. I am a backer, and romances would make me happy. Isn't that a reason to include them?" To which the answer is "Hey, other backers would be happy if the kind of romances you like were not present in the game at all. Isn't that a reason not to include them?". Which brings us to the point I outlined before: expecting consensus on a topic like this is wishful thinking.

 

We're not going to be able to decide how this should be handled, so it's up to the developers to decide. As long as their decision is informed and well thought, there isn't much to do for us but to accept their decision. And being well informed means that all sides of the argument have to be presented.

 

 

No problem, give me some reasons why the implementation of Romance\Sex in PE is impractical or can't be done?

 

Dude, Amentep already gave you some reasons in the top post of the last page. And you didn't counter them, you just basically said "I could counter them but I won't". Why not? You have what you asked for, right there for you to pick. What are you waiting for? :huh:

Edited by Lurky
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Great, now you people want pregnancy ? Heh, I wonder if there'll be abortion services in the game. That should amp things up a tad.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Oh dear. This again.

 

Zalpha, you have encountered a somewhat hostile reaction to creating this thread, but that is because this is an incredibly long-running and controversial subject here. This has been talked about since the very first day the Project Eternity Kickstarter was launched, in September from the past year. Think about it. This topic has been debated in these forums for roughly nine months, there are literally dozens of threads about it (Amentep's list was not complete), and many of them have been closed because they exceeded the length limit per thread. A lot of debate has been had, and lots of things of variable insight and niceness have been said :\

 

This might be a little unfair to you, since you are a newcomer here. But it's wise to be aware of all the reasons that have made people tired of discussing romances, and it is understandable that they aren't very keen on seeing it again.

 

Now that this is out of the way, I don't think that anyone here thinks the topics of love or romance are bad by themselves. They do, however, have many grievances about what surrounds them, about the way they have usually been implemented, and about the overzealous drive that some fans show when they push for their inclusion. Bioware has been mentioned already, haven't they? It's gotten to the point in their forums where feedback from fans has become so relentlessly insistent about this topic that it's comparable to lobbying, and many fans there are so singleminded and pushy about this that they are comparable to addicts. A harsh comparison, I know, but the symptoms match.

 

Again, this might be a little unfair to you, since you don't have that kind of behavior. But it's wise to be aware of all the factors that have made people wary of romances. All of them.

 

About the grievances themselves: The point of fan behavior is not something that should concern Obsidian, but nonetheless it is wise for us fans to be aware of it, so that there is some perspective about why these discussions can be so volatile. The point of badly implemented romances is, indeed, something of concern, and has been dissected at large in the various threads that have been linked here. Some of these points have been brought up in this thread, too.

 

So, on to answer various questions here.

 

 

 

I am interested in marriage, romance and fathering (mothering? Doesn't seem right to fright with child) offspring. I find this intriguing and am interested if the option will ever be present, on launch, DLC or hopefully a mod (don't know if the game will be mod-able, let me know if it is please :D).

 

Project Eternity will be as mod-friendly as possible.

 

Some people that play RPG's also play it for the romance. I am just stating that I feel romance has a place in games like this, and there is fan base for it.

 

Nobody questions that. The main point of contention I've seen is that romances have this tendency to overshadow many other companion interactions and story elements. Sure, some people love them, but if their presence could be harmful to the experience of other players, surely you can understand why they would oppose them.

 

How can they be harmful if they're optional, you might ask? Sometimes it's because the characters lose depth and reactivity in their overall interactions, because that is reserved for the romance path. Sometimes it's because their optionality is "pursue romance path or have nothing else to do with a certain character", which is not an equal choice and not very optional, actually. Sometimes it's because the story has to bend over awkwardly in order to acommodate their presence. The points are various and I don't remember them all, but they are legitimate points, and should not be ignored.

 

Some people have tried to come up with solutions, with ways to build a romance path that also pleases the people who aren't interested in that content. But they haven't been embraced by many, and they have been lost in the sea of posts and flames. How many times has BruceVC said something along the lines of "yes, I understand what you say, but I still want to have lots of hot bikini-clad women I can romance and have sex with" in the various threads around this forum? Making sacrifices for the sake of other people's game experience is hard, both for antiromancers AND for proromancers, and when the topic in question is something as emotionally charged as romances, expecting consensus is pretty much wishful thinking.

 

 

 

And now to you, Bruce.

 

A very important objective to Obsidian would be the overall sales figures of PE. So logically they would want to make a game that appeals to the widest audience without compromising there core principles. So by excluding Romance\Sex just because a small but vociferous group of fans object to it makes no business sense. Of course PE will still sell well without Romance\Sex but by including it you will only increase the fan base. The success of Bioware games are testament to this formula.

 

Actually, Avellone has gone on record saying that financial success is not that important to them. There are several interviews of him where he has said that. Here's the most recent one.

 

The reasoning is this: thanks to Kickstarter, Obsidian doesn't have to return any monetary investment. If they manage their budget well and don't pull a Double Fine, they're already even, and any sales made are net profit for them on top of the rest of income Obsidian makes. He'd like the game to sell well, sure, but that's because it's the kind of game he loves to make and would like to continue doing so, not because he wants to get rich. That means that he wants it to be a game he likes doing. And Avellone has also gone on record expressing his dislike for romances.

 

The point is, sales or popularity aren't really that important to the developers. Therefore, these arguments are irrelevant when arguing for the inclusion of a feature.

 

Now, if you've read the interview, you're probably thinking "Hey, he wants the backers to be happy. I am a backer, and romances would make me happy. Isn't that a reason to include them?" To which the answer is "Hey, other backers would be happy if the kind of romances you like were not present in the game at all. Isn't that a reason not to include them?". Which brings us to the point I outlined before: expecting consensus on a topic like this is wishful thinking.

 

We're not going to be able to decide how this should be handled, so it's up to the developers to decide. As long as their decision is informed and well thought, there isn't much to do for us but to accept their decision. And being well informed means that all sides of the argument have to be presented.

 

 

No problem, give me some reasons why the implementation of Romance\Sex in PE is impractical or can't be done?

 

Dude, Amentep already gave you some reasons in the top post of the last page. And you didn't counter them, you just basically said "I could counter them but I won't". Why not? You have what you asked for, right there for you to pick. What are you waiting for? :huh:

 

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Actually, Avellone has gone on record saying that financial success is not that important to them. There are several interviews of him where he has said that. Here's the most recent one.

 

The reasoning is this: thanks to Kickstarter, Obsidian doesn't have to return any monetary investment. If they manage their budget well and don't pull a Double Fine, they're already even, and any sales made are net profit for them on top of the rest of income Obsidian makes. He'd like the game to sell well, sure, but that's because it's the kind of game he loves to make and would like to continue doing so, not because he wants to get rich. That means that he wants it to be a game he likes doing. And Avellone has also gone on record expressing his dislike for romances.

 

The point is, sales or popularity aren't really that important to the developers. Therefore, these arguments are irrelevant when arguing for the inclusion of a feature.

 

 

 

Dude, Amentep already gave you some reasons in the top post of the last page. And you didn't counter them, you just basically said "I could counter them but I won't". Why not? You have what you asked for, right there for you to pick. What are you waiting for? :huh:

 

Seriously Lurky I credited you with more intelligence than someone to make such an absurd  comment or believe that any company isn't concerned with sales and increased profitability. Please read this interview  and see the date, its trumps your link with its relevance and the date it was published.

I'll quote the section you need to focus on

 

Geraldo] For the future, it's Eternity, what do you see beyond Eternity?

[Chris] We'd like to do more games in the Eternity universe. We have the expansion plan, we'd also like to be able to do sequels to the franchise if the initial one sells well enough.

 

http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/15876/article/project-eternity-an-extended-interview-with-chris-avellone-rezzed/

 

Lurky what world do you live in  if you can't see why any company would want good sales of a product? So yes the Sales question is very relevant to the longevity of PE.

 

I didn't respond to Amentep because we have discussed his points many times before and I am sure he is well aware of my view. I would respond to someone who genuinely didn't know my answers

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Actually, Avellone has gone on record saying that financial success is not that important to them. There are several interviews of him where he has said that. Here's the most recent one.

 

The reasoning is this: thanks to Kickstarter, Obsidian doesn't have to return any monetary investment. If they manage their budget well and don't pull a Double Fine, they're already even, and any sales made are net profit for them on top of the rest of income Obsidian makes. He'd like the game to sell well, sure, but that's because it's the kind of game he loves to make and would like to continue doing so, not because he wants to get rich. That means that he wants it to be a game he likes doing. And Avellone has also gone on record expressing his dislike for romances.

 

The point is, sales or popularity aren't really that important to the developers. Therefore, these arguments are irrelevant when arguing for the inclusion of a feature.

 

 

 

Dude, Amentep already gave you some reasons in the top post of the last page. And you didn't counter them, you just basically said "I could counter them but I won't". Why not? You have what you asked for, right there for you to pick. What are you waiting for? :huh:

 

Seriously Lurky I credited you with more intelligence than someone to make such an absurd  comment or believe that any company isn't concerned with sales and increased profitability. Please read this interview  and see the date, its trumps your link with its relevance and the date it was published.

I'll quote the section you need to focus on

 

Geraldo] For the future, it's Eternity, what do you see beyond Eternity?

[Chris] We'd like to do more games in the Eternity universe. We have the expansion plan, we'd also like to be able to do sequels to the franchise if the initial one sells well enough.

 

http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/15876/article/project-eternity-an-extended-interview-with-chris-avellone-rezzed/

 

Lurky what world do you live in  if you can't see why any company would want good sales of a product? So yes the Sales question is very relevant to the longevity of PE.

 

I didn't respond to Amentep because we have discussed his points many times before and I am sure he is well aware of my view. I would respond to someone who genuinely didn't know my answers

 

 

His point was that there are certainly other factors at play besides sales, and that it's not even established that simply adding romances would increase sales when there are so many players who are opposed to their inclusion, even if there is also a lot of players who support their inclusion.

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Pregnancy and having Children.

Sounds absurd,

 

...but fun! I'd like to have a companion in my group who is a father/ mother running away from family. Roleplaying should also consist of personal problems as such. Even if this reveals that my party buddy is an ****.

 

But please don't show me the birthgiving...

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I was writing a big post clarifying my point, but I see that mcmanusaur ninja'd me. I'm a slow typer, what can I say :p

 

To put a finer point to it, I was downplaying the importance of sales. Not dismissing it completely, as you seem to be implying, but downplaying it. It's basically another way to say what mcmanusaur said, but yeah.

 

In any case, I want to point out that both interviews, yours and mine, were made in the same period of time, which is the Rezzed 2013 event. Thus, both are equally recent, even if yours was published 3 days later. Which is not that much time, actually. Hell, both interviews don't even contradict each other! They say the same, except that the Eurogamer interview adds a little more to the same statement.

Edited by Lurky
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I want to thank everyone who posted in this thread, yeah  I am new (and there will be other new people coming as the game gets closer to being published, so brace yourselves for more noob questions).

 

I was just interested in knowing if they would be any and to the limit at which it would go [kids – form my point a view an epic game (time wise) spanning your and others life time].

 

I hear both sides of the argument for or against it and see where both sides are coming from and can't agree with either of them, bot equally valid (imo).

 

My conclusion on the matter, I feel romance adds more to a game rather than detracts. You get more dialogue options that expand from the standard base conversation/story line and add onto it.

 

Take Viconia's Romance from BGII for example, you could have the standard oh your a Drow, oh your Evil, tell me about your people conversation. Then you can add love/hate to the mix (expanded dialogue options). The one side, oh your evil race, you should feel bad for who and what you are, I don't like you and your going to have to change if you want to be in my group OR the other, Oh you poor misunderstood creature, I will befriend you (romance ensues). This is fictitious, it doesn't play out like that in game but you should get my point.

 

I think develops aren't at the point of romance yet in the game creation (seems like an after thought to me, rather than a design focus) and don't want to talk about adding them just yet, but in all likelihood they will be in final product to some degree. If not they could pull a Bethesda Studio and hope that the modding community (“fix”) add it to the game themselves.

 

Edit: On a side note, found this, found it an interesting summery of the romance.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/npcs/viconia.php

Edited by Zalpha
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