Build Thread

[Keyrock]

The biggest con I can see is that it's a locked chip, so no OCing.  If you don't plan to OC, then that's a moot point.

 

I might think about doing something similar when it's time for me to build, several months down the line, since integrated graphics is completely useless to me.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Keyrock

[Guest Slinky]

Yeah, the inability to OC is no biggie for me as looking at tests around the net, it doesn't seem to help much unless playing Starcraft 2 or some other heavily CPU bound game which I won't be doing much.

 

This techpowerup article shows pretty well overclocking isn't really that big of a deal.

[Humanoid]

If you consider overclocking as not a big deal, then hyperthreading would be a fraction of not-a-big-deal. Sure as demonstrated in those charts, it's not such a big gain in GPU-bound games, but in other games you do get the full benefit. In contrast, just about nothing will show tangible improvement from HT. Either you care about CPU performance or you don't, and therefore you get a 4670K if you do, or a 4440 if you don't. I'd only consider the 1230 if it's meaningfully cheaper than the 4670K (over here it's about $30 more, at price at which I don't think would warrant consideration).

[Guest Slinky]

The thing is, while HT is almost useless right now as very few games support it, I'm kinda expecting it to get supported better in future games and that should push it one notch higher than 4670k, right?. I won't be upgrading again until skylake arrives in the distant future.

 

That's the idea anyways. If HT won't get supported by more games in the future then 4670k would be the better CPU to have, but even then the performance difference should be small enough to not matter since the vast majority of my games will be GPU bound.

 

So the real question is, will support for HT get more common? I would expect so as new games should start using more cores, but does that mean they will start supporting HT better too? I have no idea, but I at least would assume Xeon 1230 would be the better bet for the future.

 

Well, it's the 4770k that would be the best bet for the future really, but I just wouldn't like to reward Intel for sitting on their hands bit too confortably by buying a overpriced CPU which is like Fukushima temperature wise because of that toothpaste between the chip and heatspreader.

 

Thoughts?

[Humanoid]

I think it's a bit optimistic in two regards - one that game devs will actually put in the effort to use the virtual cores, which considering how long it took them to support even four cores is questionable, and that the game needs to load the cores in such a way that there's capacity to spare so that they can hand off to the virtual cores in the first place. The way things have developed in the past, the limit in the number of cores a game can utilise appears to often be hard-coded to whatever the average hardware at the time can boast, few seem to have the ability or even desire to support a dynamic number of cores. And make no mistake, quad-core is still Intel's game for the next couple generations at least - I'm still wholly satisfied by my five-year-old, 2009-vintage i5, after all, so I have no confidence in Intel trying to push the envelope in the next five years.

 

I'm not fully up to date with the current state of play, but I imagine some benchmarks comparing a 4770 to a 4670K at say 4.4GHz might be instructive. Simplistically, it's probably going to be a matter of choosing between the moderate but everpresent boost, versus the situational but potentially larger one.

 

In the end, it's a gamble, but a pretty low-stakes one. The 1230 conveniently rules out the 4770 non-K, so it's a straight up duel with the cheaper 4670K. If I call the probability of HT being useful as even odds (though in reality I'm a bit more pessimistic about the competence of game devs), I'd go with the price advantage. But it's not really a bet you can really lose out on (especially given you claw a little of the money back from the cheaper H series board).

 

One thing to note is that not all motherboards support the Xeon, so check the compatibility lists closely.

[Guest Slinky]

Yeah, the not so eager support for extra cores is something to think about.

 

Hmmh. I think I'll first wait and see is the clock speed boost for the refresh version of 1230 just the 100Mhz as it is for i5/i7 and then check the price differences and go from there.

[Sarex]

Looks like we are getting the 600 dollar 8 core.

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/196158/intel-core-i7-haswell-e-to-launch-in-q3-2014.html

Edited April 23, 2014 by Sarex

[Nepenthe]

Blah, I really should put something together, but I haven't owned a full-size personal computer in over a decade... I'd have to build from ground up and the initial cost of it always turns me off.

[Sarex]

Looks like we are getting the 600 dollar 8 core.

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/196158/intel-core-i7-haswell-e-to-launch-in-q3-2014.html

 

I was just looking back and saw that this is an old article. I don't really know how I missed the date on it... Anyways, my bad, still waiting for some confirmation on prices from intel.

[Humanoid]

After dallying for half a year, decided to get onto the job of finishing my NAS + rebuild HTPC project by ordering the final parts required. Italicised old, salvaged parts. The goal:

 

NAS:

AMD A4-4000

Silverstone AR01 HSF

Gigabyte FM2A88XM-D3H

4GB G.Skill DDR3L

128GB Sandisk Ultra Plus SSD (might rethink this if I'd rather use the SATA port for another spindle, can run OS from USB stick)

Fractal Design Define R4 case

Seasonic G360 PSU

(Don't know what OS yet, Nas4Free, FreeNAS, unRaid, OpenFiler, etc.)

 

^ Will just run JBOD, don't need redundancy as no critical data stored, just media. Bought a couple new 4TB WD Red drives to start this off, partially migrate some of the ~20TB of data I have on the HTPC to it, then move some of the HTPC drives to the NAS over time. HTPC has 2x4TB and 4x2TB drives currently, plus 2x3TB externals. Desktop has another 4TB which I may no longer need as well.

 

Final tally might be 3x 4TB WD Red, 1x 4TB Hitachi Deskstar, 1x 4TB Seagate 7200.12, 2-3x Seagate 2TB various models (depending on whether I opt for the SSD, board limited to 8 SATA ports currently). View to replace 2TB drives with 5/6TB drives in future.

 

HTPC:

Intel i3-4130

Scythe Big Shuriken HSF

Asus H87M-E

4GB Kingston DDR3

256GB Sandisk Ultra Plus SSD

2TB WD Green HDD

LG BD-RW

Antec Fusion Black

Seasonic G360 PSU

 

Spare box (just the rehomed old HTPC parts):

Intel i5-2400

Gelid Slim Hero HSF

Asus P8H67-M

4GB G.Skill DDR3L (up to, might have a dodgy stick)

128GB Crucial m4 SSD

BitFenix Prodigy Micro White case

Corsair CX400 PSU

[Bartimaeus]

Bought an Asus Z87 Sabertooth for $140 for my 4770k, (regular price of $250 - I would never normally go this high, but it seemed like a great price). They sent me an Asus Z87-A instead. Fun times abound.

[Keyrock]

Haswell refresh, supposedly, launches tomorrow, with the K variants coming next month.  I've almost got my new build budget fully set aside, so the timing works out well for me.  Part of me is gnawing at me to wait for Broadwell and 20nm Maxwell, but who the hell knows when desktop Broadwell and 20nm Maxwell will actually show up?  If it even happens this year, it will be very late in the year.  Plus, the "wait for the next thing" game is almost never a smart game to play, simply because there's always a next thing coming soon.  Not to mention, the die shrink for Broadwell in no way guarantees any significant increase in IPC.  So, I guess I better start looking out for a good deal on a 27" 1440p monitor and a Z97 motherboard.  I have yet to dabble in the SSD business.  Should I specifically look for a mobo with SATA Express or do I just get a SSD that goes through PCIe?  To me, it seems that there is no real reason for SATA Express to exist if you can just use an existing PCIe slot and get the extra bandwith (over SATA III) that way.  Of course, I have oly the most basic knowledge of the technology involved, so I may be looking at this all wrong.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Keyrock

[Humanoid]

Eh, I'd honestly take the capacity/price ratio of an good regular SATA over the peak performance of PCIe/SATAe. At this point in the technology, bigger SSD trumps faster SSD for me every time.

[Bartimaeus]

I bought a fairly random 120GB SandForce SSD a month or two again, (PNY XLR8), for about $35. I was using a 10 year old SATA 1 80GB Seagate as my system drive until then, (with a 1TB 7200RPM Seagate for storage, and now an additional WD Green 3TB that I got for free), so I was getting pretty desperate to get just about anything to make my boot times a little faster than the 4-5 minutes it was taking that old Seagate.  (And now it's about 20 seconds, total, which I think is pretty decent. Much better, anyways. )

 

I'd like to wait until Broadwell comes out to get a new CPU, but the 4770k is only $100, and it's extremely unlikely I'll be able to get anything similar then. That, and it'll still be miles better than my current AMD Phenom II 970.  

Edited May 11, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Keyrock]

I bought a fairly random 120GB SandForce SSD a month or two again, (PNY XLR8), for about $35. I was using a 10 year old SATA 1 80GB Seagate as my system drive until then, (with a 1TB 7200RPM Seagate for storage, and now an additional WD Green 3TB that I got for free), so I was getting pretty desperate to get just about anything to make my boot times a little faster than the 4-5 minutes it was taking that old Seagate.

 

I'd like to wait until Broadwell comes out to get a new CPU, but the 4770k is only $100, and it's extremely unlikely I'll be able to get anything similar then. That, and it'll still be miles better than my current AMD Phenom II 970.  

Where are you getting a $330 CPU for $100? 

[Bartimaeus]

 

I bought a fairly random 120GB SandForce SSD a month or two again, (PNY XLR8), for about $35. I was using a 10 year old SATA 1 80GB Seagate as my system drive until then, (with a 1TB 7200RPM Seagate for storage, and now an additional WD Green 3TB that I got for free), so I was getting pretty desperate to get just about anything to make my boot times a little faster than the 4-5 minutes it was taking that old Seagate.

 

I'd like to wait until Broadwell comes out to get a new CPU, but the 4770k is only $100, and it's extremely unlikely I'll be able to get anything similar then. That, and it'll still be miles better than my current AMD Phenom II 970.  

Where are you getting a $330 CPU for $100? 

 

 

My sister works in retail, which allows her to take advantage of Intel's "Retail Edge Program", where you can buy one after doing a small amount of work within the site, (some nonsensical quizzes and such). That's how I got the 4930k last winter for a paltry $200. This year, I'll get the 4770k for $100 instead, as my sister won't be in retail this coming winter, so I won't be able to take advantage of it. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Tek-Single-Certified-ST50F-ESG/dp/B00I6DLHO6

 

I got one of these for $25 a weeks ago. Not entirely sure what to do with it. It seems really nice, especially for a mere $25 when it's normal price is ~$85, but I can't find any proper reviews on it, so I've abstained from actually using it so far. How the heck do you figure out if a PSU is decent or not?

Edited May 11, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Guest Slinky]

You lucky sob

 

And for the PSU, just google furiously for reviews and opinions from people who knows better, I did the same just while back. Kinda funny how you can't trust the products from "good" brands be always good and the products from "bad" ones be always carbage, the good one might ride on it's good name and throw out a not-so-great PSU out and the bad ones might buy a good PSU from some other manufacturer and slap their name on it.

[Humanoid]

It's an FSP under the skin, who are a decent mid-tier manufacturer.

 

 

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page998.htm

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, I found that FSP manufactures it, too, but their products seem to vary somewhat in terms of quality, (seems to be from "standard" to pretty great), and nobody seems to have done a single review on it anywhere, (not even ye' olde clueless user reviews). It is, apparently, a fairly new product, so perhaps someone will (professionally) review it fairly soon...for now, it sits unopened. Curious as to whether it's better than my XFX Core, an 80+ Bronze Seasonic model.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Guest Slinky]

Don't know is it better than that XFX Core, but I do know XFX Core, while not being the best PSU out there, is easily good enough for not to warrant any need to change it for quality reasons. I would personally bet my money on XFX being better.

 

Edit: Actually scratch that. But anyway, there is no real need to change that XFX out.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Slinky

[Humanoid]

Yeah, the Gold efficiency rating is objective enough clearly, but I'd wager a Seasonic would have the better fan and therefore acoustics, and that's something I obviously value pretty highly.

[Bartimaeus]

The Core's fan is almost silent. Between my case, it could not be on at all for all I can tell. Another PSU I got for $25...I'm a sucker for decent deals.

 

The 80+ rating speaks of efficiency, but not necessarily reliability, which is what I'm more concerned about.  Also, actually, I'm not really considering swapping them out yet, per se...but I'll be doing a swap of sorts, regardless, when I get that new motherboard and CPU, and I was considering switching out the Core to remain with my AMD parts while having the Silverstone go along with my Intel. But I (probably) won't do that unless I see at least one professional review saying that it's at least not a piece of crap. 

Edited May 11, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

I bought a Seasonic x660 gold+ in anticipation of my rig upgrade and while it is a great power supply some units have a coil whine problem. Unfortunately I got unlucky, though it's not that big of a noise and it happens rearly.

 

I'm still waiting on my budget to fill and am still looking out for the Haswell-E price annoucment, though I will probably go the same route as Keyrock, unless there is a sub 600 euro 8-core variant.

[Bartimaeus]

I often hear about people having problems with "coil whine" in their PSUs, but I'd never actually heard what it sounds like prior to listening to it on YouTube just now. To be honest, unless it was exceptionally loud, I probably wouldn't notice it, between my closed headphones, my giant industrial metal fan that I constantly have running on low (because medium will literally blow pictures off the walls and such...nevermind high), and the ridiculously loud stock cooler that my Phenom II came with that eclipses all other computer noise when I can actually hear my computer at all, (which is not often). I have permanent tinnitus, (and other sensory problems), so I always have to have some sort of constant noise. Sounds crappy if you otherwise have a quiet environment, and it bleeds through, though.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

Yeah my pc is very quiet, especially with the new psu that hardly spins the fan, the loudest part is when the graphics card is beeing really stressed. So when there is no sound from the speakers the whine is noticable, not loud but noticeable.