What's on the idiot box...

[Raithe]

 

It was a good show but way overrated.

A little over-rated, yes. And absence makes the heart fonder. But there's so little decent sci-fi TV series (imo) to pick from, it always sucks when they cancel one of the good ones.

 

Sci-fi shows rarely seem to find enough of an audience to stay on air for long. Sometimes, perhaps, because they can be more costly to make than yet another Law and Order or reality show. Sigh.

 

 

Heh, Joss Whedon has gone on record saying that Firefly actually had a smaller budget then either Buffy or Angel, even the pilot's of both series, let alone later seasons. But there does seem to have been a lot of weird office politics going on at Fox on how they threw Firefly around and put it out without advertising or a regular slot.

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah, I have no idea how much Firefly cost....didn't look like a high budget show ala ST:TNG at its height. Mostly in Firefly's case it seems more an issue of not finding an audience until too late. I didn't watch it when it was actually on ... didn't even know it existed.

[Raithe]

Well when it was put out first, it was battling against ..I think it was the Baseball (or one of the other big American sports) playoffs, and the first season of American Idol. That and Fox pretty much had put out no advertisement for it. It's like it was set up to be killed.

[LadyCrimson]

Maybe in a few more years they'll "reboot" it as a JJ Abrams movie....

[Oerwinde]

Maybe in a few more years they'll "reboot" it as a JJ Abrams movie....

I think Joss Whedon retained the rights, so thankfully if it comes back, he'll be the one to do it. The cast was one of the major reasons it was so good though, so I doubt we'll see any sort of revival, and I'm ok with that.

[Keyrock]

There's already been a Firefly movie, it was called Serenity.

[kgambit]

 

Maybe in a few more years they'll "reboot" it as a JJ Abrams movie....

I think Joss Whedon retained the rights, so thankfully if it comes back, he'll be the one to do it. The cast was one of the major reasons it was so good though, so I doubt we'll see any sort of revival, and I'm ok with that.

 

 

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think Whedon owns any of the broadcast rights.  I think the rights to the franchise break down as follows: 

 

20th Century Fox owns all the TV rights to anything Firefly/Serenity related and released the original 14 episodes of Firefly that aired in 2002 on DVD.  IIRC, there was a proposed MMO video game that was to be developed by the Multiverse Network based on a license that they bought from 20th century fox in 2006. 

 

Universal Studios owns the movie rights to anything Firefly/Serenity related and released the movie "serenity" in theaters and, on DVD and VHS.

 

Sci-Fi purchased the re-run rights from 20th Century Fox.

 

I think Whedon might retain publishing rights related to novelizations and comics. I know that Dark Horse comics released a three comic mini series that bridged the gap between the film and the series.

 

The lack of publicity was part of a factor in Firefly not garnering a better reception.  The network also aired several episodes out of order which didn't help the continuity at all.  The DVD set has them in the right sequence and the show flows a LOT better. 

 

I never understood the fascination with the series.  I thought it was moderately interesting but severely overhyped. Oh I hated the intro theme music - it is the most grating piece of crap I've ever heard.   I hit the mute button every time It played. 

 

There's already been a Firefly movie, it was called Serenity.

 

I believe Whedon intended for that to be the pilot episode for the series but the network objected and made the train heist the first aired episode. 

Edited September 15, 2013 by kgambit

[Hurlshort]

The pilot and the movie are pretty different, in fact they change the story quite a bit with Simon taking a more active role in the rescue of his sister.

 

I was very bummed about Firefly being cancelled, but then we got a movie and that wrapped up a decent amount of plot lines for my tastes.  I'm not bitter about it and I love watching all the Firefly actors find success elsewhere.

[Raithe]

Interesting thing is that the various Firefly comics that Dark Horse have published have sold more then any other comics they've released.

 

Well in the original pilot, Simon has only just met the crew when he gives a rough "this is how I got my sister out", but if you've just met a suspicious bunch of characters would you really tell them the exact truth?

 

The Serenity movie provides the "security camera" viewpoint of Simon directly rescuing River from the facility, but as such never shows how they managed to get off world and out to the rim planets.

 

I don't know, some people say it's overhyped, but I find the chemistry between everyone on set really does make it feel like a family group and they generally have interesting stories and fun dialogue. I can re-watch Firefly more then I can re-watch Buffy or Angel or Dollhouse.

 

Joss was certainly loyal to the cast, he kept trying to get them parts in things he was doing after Firefly which is one of the reasons most of them turn up in Buffy, Angel and Dollhouse at one point or another.

 

Edit: heh, and for a slight woah moment -  a very young looking Zac Efron played a "young Simon" in one of the episodes.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Raithe

[Nonek]

Always pondered whether Book was an overseer, sent by the government faction who helped Simon free his sister, to chart their progress and make reports on how she performed in the field.

 

Anybody else think Ms Sara was dying?

[Raithe]

Always pondered whether Book was an overseer, sent by the government faction who helped Simon free his sister, to chart their progress and make reports on how she performed in the field.

 

Anybody else think Ms Sara was dying?

 

Well, in the novelisation of the Serenity film they drop a bunch of innuendo about how Book was basically an Operative ala the main bad guy in the film, but who lost his faith in the Alliance years ago and disappeared.

 

But they did "A Shephard's Tale" as a 3 part comic that revealed he'd actually been a very troubled teenager who got pulled into the Independents before the war began, and then given a false identity to enlist in the Alliance as a deep cover agent. During such, he became one of the leading military officers of the Alliance known for ruthlessness, brilliance and general aggressive capability. Which positioned him to set things in motion for the worst disaster the Alliance suffered.  Of course by then, only a few people on the Independent side knew who he was, but to the majority he was a key bad guy. Then the Alliance viewed him as the guy in charge of their worst disaster, and they do what they usually do and swept it all under the rug and discharged him from service.

 

During the 10th Anniversary, Whedon did let slip that Inara's secret was that she had some form of terminal illness which is why she'd left the home planet and gone a-wandering.

[Nonek]

Ah thank you, only just whetted my appetite on the television series and film, but Book's background certainly explains the references in "War Stories." The medicines miss Sara was carrying and her routine medical check up on Arial seemed too much of a Chekhov's gun to not be indicative of something, along with her obvious attraction to Mr Reynold's not being acted upon as is shown in "Heart of Gold," and her decision thereafter to leave the ship.

[Walsingham]

The pilot and the movie are pretty different, in fact they change the story quite a bit with Simon taking a more active role in the rescue of his sister.

 

I was very bummed about Firefly being cancelled, but then we got a movie and that wrapped up a decent amount of plot lines for my tastes.  I'm not bitter about it and I love watching all the Firefly actors find success elsewhere.

 

Yeah. It shouldn't have been cancelled, but it was. The shame of it is that if it had been produced in the UK it could have developed and matured into an absolutely epic show. No disrespect to the USA. Just the network's brainless application of ratings over nous.

 

EDIT: That came out sounding patronising, but I'll leave it, as it probably is.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Walsingham

[Hurlshort]

Cable is really where it is at for giving shows a chance to mature and develop.  The major networks are terrible about that, and Fox is probably the quickest at pulling the trigger.  Fox is also the quickest to put outside the box programming up, so it's a bit hard to hate them completely.

[Raithe]

I think part of the trouble is that a lot of the really interesting concepts for tv series tend to have more of an arc nowadays, rather the purely episodic style. So the first season always tends to be laying groundwork and establishing the frame of everything, while the actors are getting a feel for their characters and the writers are shaking down all the loose ends and how it actually hooks together.

 

Which tends to mean when viewers miss a few episodes or don't start watching it until the 3rd or 4th episode it makes it harder to follow everything. Then it suddenly gets axed because the networks don't consider it "exciting" enough or hitting the "right" audience.

[Oerwinde]

 

 

 

Maybe in a few more years they'll "reboot" it as a JJ Abrams movie....

I think Joss Whedon retained the rights, so thankfully if it comes back, he'll be the one to do it. The cast was one of the major reasons it was so good though, so I doubt we'll see any sort of revival, and I'm ok with that.

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think Whedon owns any of the broadcast rights. I think the rights to the franchise break down as follows:

 

20th Century Fox owns all the TV rights to anything Firefly/Serenity related and released the original 14 episodes of Firefly that aired in 2002 on DVD. IIRC, there was a proposed MMO video game that was to be developed by the Multiverse Network based on a license that they bought from 20th century fox in 2006.

 

Universal Studios owns the movie rights to anything Firefly/Serenity related and released the movie "serenity" in theaters and, on DVD and VHS.

 

Sci-Fi purchased the re-run rights from 20th Century Fox.

 

I think Whedon might retain publishing rights related to novelizations and comics. I know that Dark Horse comics released a three comic mini series that bridged the gap between the film and the series.

 

The lack of publicity was part of a factor in Firefly not garnering a better reception. The network also aired several episodes out of order which didn't help the continuity at all. The DVD set has them in the right sequence and the show flows a LOT better.

 

I never understood the fascination with the series. I thought it was moderately interesting but severely overhyped. Oh I hated the intro theme music - it is the most grating piece of crap I've ever heard. I hit the mute button every time It played.

There's already been a Firefly movie, it was called Serenity.

I believe Whedon intended for that to be the pilot episode for the series but the network objected and made the train heist the first aired episode.

In the Browncoat documentary Joss Whedon said after getting the news that it was cancelled and he tried talking the execs out of it, he asked if he could have the showand they gave it to him. The head of Universal at the time was a fan of the series (Held viewing parties and everything) which was why they gave him a chance with the movie.

[Hiro Protagonist]

I remember when Dark Angel was cancelled and a lot of viewers weren't happy about that and was replaced with Firefly. And with Firefly, I didn't get all the we have this technology with space ships but still use basic guns and bullets. It seemed a bit mixed up at the time with the wild west in space. I gave up after a couple of episodes and it was cancelled soon after.

 

It was only when it became popular on the internet, released on DVD that I went back to watch to find out what the bid deal was. And found that it was quite good. It feels as if people have jumped on the firefly internet bandwagon but if they watched it when it aired, they probably would have given it one or two episodes and gave up. Much like the same with other shows that have been cancelled early and now have a following.

 

And then the movie came out and it bombed at the box office. This was supposedly going to be a huge movie from the internet reaction from the show. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=serenity.htm

 

Production Budget - $39 Million

Worldwide Box Office $38.8 million

 

Yep, even the worldwide totals couldn't even get above the production budget. I was one of the very few people that went to the cinema and supported this. It seems most of the movie going public didn't. So I really have to wonder how popular Firefly is. It doesn't seem to be popular with mainstream audiences.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist

[Zoraptor]

There are a bunch of things that influence whether something does well at the box office beyond appeal and e-cred though. Internet buzz is definitely hit and miss, for every Blair Witch there's a Snakes on a Plane. The DVD sales and other media supposedly do very well, so it may be more that the people who like Firefly don't go out to movies much.

[Raithe]

I managed to get a bunch of friends to go see Serenity, but most of them had never watched Firefly so while they enjoyed the general sci-fi stuff, it never really clicked for them since so many references are based on the series.

 

But then, I was one of those folks who managed to download the Firefly episodes when they were first shown in the US and before they got shown here in the UK, then picked up the dvd's the moment they were released. Now I've also got the Blu-ray version of the series as well. So it could be said I'm one of the serious fans..

 

Edit: I think it was Adam Baldwin who said something along the lines of "If we'd had 3 million more viewers at the time, the show wouldn't have been cancelled. If we'd had 3 million more seats sat in for the movie, we'd have likely been able to get a sequel or two to that."

Edited September 15, 2013 by Raithe

[LadyCrimson]

Just for the record, I'm aware of the film Serenity (I saw it before I saw the series, and I own the DVD). I was largely being facetious with my previous Abrams comment....

[Nonek]

I think to be honest that Firefly as a product is quite a hard sell, many of its themes are existential and ocassionally nihilistic, it's an ensemble piece with some rather traditionally unlikable characters (though I find Jayne to be a refreshing change of personality,) and there is no clear moral message being promoted like in most popular sci-fi, such as Star Wars or Trek. That said I find it far more to my taste for these elements being included, but one can see the general public finding it a touch off putting.

[kgambit]

I remember when Dark Angel was cancelled and a lot of viewers weren't happy about that and was replaced with Firefly. And with Firefly, I didn't get all the we have this technology with space ships but still use basic guns and bullets. It seemed a bit mixed up at the time with the wild west in space. I gave up after a couple of episodes and it was cancelled soon after.

 

It was only when it became popular on the internet, released on DVD that I went back to watch to find out what the bid deal was. And found that it was quite good. It feels as if people have jumped on the firefly internet bandwagon but if they watched it when it aired, they probably would have given it one or two episodes and gave up. Much like the same with other shows that have been cancelled early and now have a following.

 

And then the movie came out and it bombed at the box office. This was supposedly going to be a huge movie from the internet reaction from the show. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=serenity.htm

 

Production Budget - $39 Million

Worldwide Box Office $38.8 million

 

Yep, even the worldwide totals couldn't even get above the production budget. I was one of the very few people that went to the cinema and supported this. It seems most of the movie going public didn't. So I really have to wonder how popular Firefly is. It doesn't seem to be popular with mainstream audiences.

 

Any idea on how it did on DVD sales?  I saw one years figures that came in around 50,000 units (plus or minus) and slightly over 1 million $ but can't find any cumulative sales figures.

There was a comment attributed to Whedon that said that the dvd sales figures weren't installing confidence that a sequel would fly commercially. 

[Hiro Protagonist]

Even the chinese that's spoken in the show has been criticised and many debates over it. There's a mix of mandarin and cantonese. The usual 'Hollywood tried but not getting it' versus 'oh, but Joss never actually said this in a recorded format so it isn't'... to the speculative 'who knows what's happened to the language in the future'. The chinese in the show never bothered me. As someone who has taken courses in mandarin and know how hard it is to pronounce the words correctly, I believe it came down to recording the Chinese for the actors to listen and parrot, but even then it's hard for people used to western languages to correctly pronounce the words with the correct pitch. After many years of practice, I still can't pronounce some words in Mandarin properly.

 

I sometimes wonder how Firefly would fare if it was released today as a new show if it didn't exist. I agree with Nonek that it would be a hard sell. I've noticed a lot of cynicism and nitpicking with good shows on internet forums. I doubt Firely would have escaped all the erroneous nitpicking as other shows get today. Perhaps we live in an age of cynicism.

[Hurlshort]

At the end of the year when the grades are done, I show Firefly episodes to my students, and they always laugh at the terrible mandarin.  Many of my students are very fluent.

[Oerwinde]

 

 

I remember when Dark Angel was cancelled and a lot of viewers weren't happy about that and was replaced with Firefly. And with Firefly, I didn't get all the we have this technology with space ships but still use basic guns and bullets. It seemed a bit mixed up at the time with the wild west in space. I gave up after a couple of episodes and it was cancelled soon after.

 

It was only when it became popular on the internet, released on DVD that I went back to watch to find out what the bid deal was. And found that it was quite good. It feels as if people have jumped on the firefly internet bandwagon but if they watched it when it aired, they probably would have given it one or two episodes and gave up. Much like the same with other shows that have been cancelled early and now have a following.

 

And then the movie came out and it bombed at the box office. This was supposedly going to be a huge movie from the internet reaction from the show. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=serenity.htm

 

Production Budget - $39 Million

Worldwide Box Office $38.8 million

 

Yep, even the worldwide totals couldn't even get above the production budget. I was one of the very few people that went to the cinema and supported this. It seems most of the movie going public didn't. So I really have to wonder how popular Firefly is. It doesn't seem to be popular with mainstream audiences.

Any idea on how it did on DVD sales? I saw one years figures that came in around 50,000 units (plus or minus) and slightly over 1 million $ but can't find any cumulative sales figures.

There was a comment attributed to Whedon that said that the dvd sales figures weren't installing confidence that a sequel would fly commercially.

Serenity sold very well on DVD I believe. I know the special edition was in Amazon's top 10 for several weeks. There was talk of a direct to video sequel because the box office couldn't justify a theatrical one, but it didn't go anywhere.