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Alc Cides

Obsidian: Where is the announcement for spiritual successor of Arcanum?

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Ok. We've the spiritual succesor of Icewind Dale, Baldur Gates on PE.   The postnuclear saga from Wasteland, Fallout 1 and 2 continues on Wasteland 2. 

Torment, oh Torment has now they own spiritual sucesor on Torment: Tides of Numenera 

So, just one is missing: Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. 

We need a new steampunk , isometric RPG on this revival. 

I think is Obsidian turn to make it  :w00t:

 

 

 

 

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Unlike InExile who had to get Torment up before Wasteland ships because of how they're doing things, I gather that it might be some time before we see another Kickstarter for Obsidian (as they have already have other projects in their pipeline)

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wrong forum


Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
---
Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.

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They haven't released PE yet, and you are talking about new Arcanum.

Inxile haven't released Wasteland 2 yet but they kickestarted Torment. I used to think like you but read the "why now" in the kickstarter and they've a very good point:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera

 

PE is not yet out from pre-production and Obsidian's next project in this small sector is PE's expansion pack, so no Arcanum succerssor from Obsidian at least present year.

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PE is not yet out from pre-production and Obsidian's next project in this small sector is PE's expansion pack, so no Arcanum succerssor from Obsidian at least present year.

 

Ah, ok is nice know from an insider ... but ... What??? :w00t:  you're not an obsidian employee so maybe I've to wait for another response  :yes:

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Hopefully dying in the pits of KS.

 

Or being made with mechanics that aren't complete **** and either turn-based or RTwP only combat instead of a multiple choice that was awful.

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Arcanum done right would be awesome. 

 

Keep: the idea of a classic swords-and-sorcery world suddenly in the throes of an industrial revolution.

 

Build on: the tech/magic split, so the mechanics are way more meaningful -- for example, someone with high magical aptitude should make tech items around him critically fail, not just be unable to use them, and vice versa with someone with high tech aptitude; magic shouldn't work within 100 yards of a steam engine, and engines shouldn't work within 100 yards of magic hotspots, etc.

 

Fix: combat, character development balance (magic is WAAAY overpowered), general world structure. Cities should be surrounded by large farmlands. There should be a frontier, with railroads pushing into it. There should be real antagonism between "civilization" and "natives." A dark and fantastic twist on the conquest of the West would work very well, like in Felix Gilman's Half-Made World and The Rise of Ransom City, or why not China Miéville's Iron Council. (In fact, Gilman's Half-Made World would be a fantastic setting for a cRPG, what with the Gun and the Line, the frontier towns caught between them, the Old World, the First Folk, and the Unmade Lands.)

 

I've finally managed to put together a character that's playable enough for my lazy style that I've been able to drill into the weird world of Arcanum, and it really is something rather special. It's such a shame it's so badly damaged in the execution. I'd love to play a technologist, but dread the tedium of die-and-reload early levels as one would entail, with the temptation of spamming Harm so alluring...


I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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From what I deduce, it seems PE is going to pay most tribute to Baldur's Gate & Icewind Dale.

A sequel however (PE2), could perhaps introduce more industrialism into its setting, and not only continue the story from the original, but also evolve the world story (and pay tribute to Arcanum). In doing so, the list of games in current development (the current top-down/isometric cRPG) could look something like this:

 

Links are to the Kickstarter projects, many of them are finished and all of them have reached their funding goals.


High-Fantasy (& possibly Steampunk-ish?):
- Project: Eternity = Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale & Darklands Tribute (0 Seconds to Go)
(- Project: Eternity 2 = Tribute to Arcanum whilst keeping the above)*
- Divinity: Original Sin = Divine & Beyond Divinity Tribute (16 Days to Go)
- Shroud of the Avatar = Ultima** (0 Seconds to Go)

Science & Spiritual & Metaphysical:
- Tides of Numenera = Planescape: Torment Tribute (0 Seconds to Go)

Futuristic:
- Shadowrun Returns = Shadowrun (SNES) Tribute & Sequel (0 Seconds to Go)
- Wasteland 2 = Wasteland Tribute & Sequel (& old-school Fallout Tribute***?) (0 Seconds to Go)

* Just a "wish" & vision & possibility
Like swatting 3 flies with 1 hit: 

1. PE sequel

2. Arcanum tribute
3.  progression of the Eternity world

** Does not look like it's going to be top-down (more like 3rd Person) but I felt like including it into the list~


*** Honestly, I haven't followed the development progress of Wasteland 2 but what I can say is that I hope Fallout 4 (or the next one in the Fallout franchise) has options to move the camera into a top-down perspective with a Free Camera mode and a point+click system. A hybrid system, hopefully, something that allows both First Person and Top-Down (Something I feel that both New Vegas and Fallout 3 would have done nothing but benefit from doing). Dragon Age: Origins benefitted a ton by allowing you to have the "over the shoulder" perspective and allowing the player to zoom out (PC version).

^That paragraph has nothing to do with what I wanted to say: Wasteland 2 doesn't strike me as a Fallout-esque game from what I've seen on the pictures and the little I've read. It really looks like its own IP and that it has nothing to do with Fallout except that both are post-apocalyptic settings. That is intended as a compliment btw, Wasteland 2 looks awesome on its own. In my opinion: Wasteland is Wasteland. Fallout is Fallout.

TL;DR: Ramblings. The point I wished to convey is that PE2 could introduce more steampunk & industrial elements based on time progression between PE1 and PE2.

PE1 = Represents late 1500's (High or Late Middle Ages (Eternity Wikia); Technology in P:E)
PE2 = Could represent the more Arcanum represented Era: 1760-1850's (Industrial Revolution (Wikipedia))

Edited by Osvir
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Interestingly enough, Arcanum is the spiritual successor to this old commercial:

 

 

#StupidEasyToIgnoreFatigueMeter :devil:


You see, ever since the whole Doritos Locos Tacos thing, Taco Bell thinks they can do whatever they want.

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@Osvir:

 

Couple of mild corrections for your list there.

 

Original Sin is basically attempting to be a modern Ultima VII. Granted, that was true of Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity to various degrees as well, but the game the whole series is a tribute to, to the extent that it's a tribute to anything, is Ultima VII.

 

Weirdly, Shroud Of The Avatar isn't so much a tribute to Ultima as it is to Ultima Online specifically.

 

Also, Bethesda would never, ever do a top-down mode in Fallout 4. They've only just now made their third-person mode halfway passable, and that's relatively easy compared to designing an entirely new mode of gameplay exclusively for PC players. Not to mention that their whole gameplay model and engine is built around first-person open-world gameplay. How would they handle transitions to interiors? What about picking up small objects? Or dialogue with NPCs? And their games are designed around the principle of the player always seeing something worth investigating on the horizon; how would you do that with no horizon? And wouldn't it get really boring looking at their ground textures?

 

It's a lovely dream, and I laud you for it, but the fact is that such a mode would be ridiculously cost-prohibitive in every way that counts, and for relatively minimal returns. It'll never happen. Sorry. :(

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Thank you for the corrections. Only want to address this:
 

It's a lovely dream, and I laud you for it, but the fact is that such a mode would be ridiculously cost-prohibitive in every way that counts, and for relatively minimal returns. It'll never happen. Sorry.

 

1. What I am speaking about is a perspective, not so much a gameplay "mode". "Look at the game in a different way". Basically, being able to get that top-down, RTS Free Camera Scroll Panning. This, I don't think is difficult or even time-consuming to implement, for starters it's already possible to "unlock" yourself from the character in the engine by Bethesda. Now all that is required is to be able to "fix" or "lock" the camera above the character in a top-down perspective. It's just a matter of "locking" the camera in a different perspective. Below is a video clip of a guy showing that it can be done (He's showing off Morrowind and Cyrodil in Skyrim, he's not making the point I am making).


2. Movement+Shooting: This is where it gets tricky I believe, the movement and aiming controls. If the developers would add in the perspective (top-down) as I explain above (see 2), how do you control your character? There are only two issues really: "How do you move?" and "How do you attack?". The rest are triggered by other factors that works regardless if it's top-down or FPS.

Let's take Fallout 3 (PC) as an example:
Original Fallout 3 Game: Move with WASD, Aim with Mouse, talk with "Button", shoot with "Left-Click".

Possible Solution?? Movement Controls:
- Switch/Button >> Move with Mouse, Aim+Shoot with WASD (Auto-Aim)+V.A.T.S. (Shoot with WASD like Army of Two PSP)

Following could occur:
- Disable Movement Input (So that Moving the Mouse "Left" doesn't make your character move "Left")
- Crosshair becomes "Mouse Pointer".
- Screen Panning when "Mouse Pointer" is at the edge of the screen.
- Move in direction of "Mouse Pointer" when "Left-Click". "Right-Click" gets unused and can be keybound to something else.
- Character Center Aim Fixed/Locked (Character Always Aims straight forward, fixed).

The Rest is Keyboard Keybinds (Talk to person when character model is close to them etc. etc. menu, V.A.T.S etc. etc. all keyboard binds).

Shoot Controls:
- Pressing "W" shoots "Up"/"Front"
- Pressing "A" shoots "Left"
- Pressing "S" shoots "Down"/"Back"
- Pressing "D" shoots "Right"
- V.A.T.S. for elevated enemies, smaller enemies (Geckos, Rats, etc. etc.) or simply "Auto-Aim" in the direction of "WASD"
- Shoot while walking: Click "Mouse Pointer" at Location X some 10 meters away, pressing "WASD" whilst character model is moving would not disrupt movement but make the character shoot whilst walking.

For Fallout 3 PS3: Typical/Standard Top-Down Shooter Controls
- Shoot with Right-Stick (like Army of Two PSP)+V.A.T.S. and Auto-Aim
- Move "Pointer" (Crosshair) with Left-Stick (And perhaps R1 would be "Issue Move", in essence, equivalent of Mouse "Left-Click")

[Analysis Start]
I disagree with the minimal returns thing. I think both Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas had everything to benefit from including a top-down perspective (and would still benefit from it) like Fallout 1 & 2. Why? Because Fallout 3 spawned from the top-down perspective and a free camera control with screen panning that Fallout 1 & 2 has. It would cater to the fanbase of those who enjoyed Fallout 1 & 2 more than F3 and it would cater to the FPS fanbase that enjoy F3 more than F1 & F2. I don't see anything to lose, only benefits (in essence: More customers = old & new).


Like Brian Fargo pitches in the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter (which is hilarious and pretty much sums up a lot of discussion that was going on when Fallout 3 released):
Brian Fargo: "We wanted to make a Wasteland 2 but we didn't have the rights, that's why we made Fallout instead"
Publisher: "Interplay made Fallout 3? I loved that game!"
Brian Fargo: "No, we made Fallout 1 & 2"
Publisher" There was a Fallout 1 & 2!?"
Brian Fargo: " :facepalm: "

Now, my solutions are probably not the best to represent Fallout 1 & 2, but I'm trying my best as to present some sort of possibility that I can think would be as simplistic as possible, taking into account and consideration with how Fallout 3 & New Vegas already plays/works. With this in mind: Making Fallout 3 & New Vegas top-down would require to make it into a top-down shooter with V.A.T.S. and "Auto-Aim" pretty much. That's as simplistic as I can think of it.

Anyways, I do think you have a point, but I'll continue to advocate the dream in hopes that it'll be spotted by someone with "know-how's" and take a top-down perspective into consideration for Fallout 4 or a spiritual successor in the future to a Fallout 3/4 or New Vegas game whilst not excluding the FPS/3rd Person-Perspective (when Fallout 3 & NV gets considered "Old-School"). I'm just archiving some ideas for the future ;) As I said, I don't think a game developing company has anything to lose by implementing the possibility for both FPS and Top-Down.
[/Analysis End]

Ending this post with a touch of cliché: "A man can dream" :)
 

Edited by Osvir
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Dude. He gave you an explanation based on Things Obsidian Has Already Said. Don't be rude.

Any person who has this on their firm: ", but for you I am One of the Obsidian Order" can expect mercy :fdevil:

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From what I deduce, it seems PE is going to pay most tribute to Baldur's Gate & Icewind Dale.

 

A sequel however (PE2), could perhaps introduce more industrialism into its setting, and not only continue the story from the original, but also evolve the world story (and pay tribute to Arcanum). In doing so, the list of games in current development (the current top-down/isometric cRPG) could look something like this:

 

^That paragraph has nothing to do with what I wanted to say: Wasteland 2 doesn't strike me as a Fallout-esque game from what I've seen on the pictures and the little I've read. It really looks like its own IP and that it has nothing to do with Fallout except that both are post-apocalyptic settings. That is intended as a compliment btw, Wasteland 2 looks awesome on its own. In my opinion: Wasteland is Wasteland. Fallout is Fallout.

 

TL;DR: Ramblings. The point I wished to convey is that PE2 could introduce more steampunk & industrial elements based on time progression between PE1 and PE2.

 

PE1 = Represents late 1500's (High or Late Middle Ages (Eternity Wikia); Technology in P:E)

PE2 = Could represent the more Arcanum represented Era: 1760-1850's (Industrial Revolution (Wikipedia))

 

Osvir your analysis is very interesting. Thanks for call my attention to some projects I'm missed. We've some hope here from PE2 has a steampunk flavor on it. Still I think a worthy steampunk succesor for Arcanum is necessary.

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About Fallout 3 top-down perspective. There is a pretty big flaw in my reasoning that I failed to take into account myself:

In-doors+Roofs. I was only imagining outdoors in my "vision", but then I realized that in-doors would cause a problem (unless roofs and in-doors can cause some sort of "see through wall" transparency).

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^ As always, Osvir, you have a knack for excellent, in-depth idea anlysis, :)

 

I just fear that there are a small handful of things you couldn't really account for in a simple top-down mode of the current Bethesda engines without the game remaining changed a bit (for example, your inability to aim at various parts of the foes, without using vats, because your aiming has been reduced to 360-degree aiming on a single axis around you, parallel to the ground).

 

As far as dreaming, personally I'd love it if they just went back to the entire game being isometric, rather than simply a mode. The mode just seems like a lot of work for what ultimately remains an imitation of the real thing (even though I get that it would technically allow for a hybrid of both styles, for all kinds of players). But, I really don't think the franchise gained much by going 1st-person. I don't think it needs to be EXACTLY like the old games. There's room for improvement without completely changing the style to 1st-person. These type of games just work better with an isometric view, methinks. You're witnessing the story, but you're not in your character's boots. You're like a ninja cameraman puppeteer who's allowed to follow the action, like those people who shoot documentaries on lion/elephant families and such, haha.


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Well, I actually think the Fallout franchise in particular works better in first-person, for a number of reasons I don't feel like getting into right now.

 

That said, I've been continually surprised that neither Bioware nor Bethesda have tried assigning a small team to an isometric, text-based RPG spinoff of one of their franchises. The Kickstalgia craze has proved there's enough of a market for it to be worth the investment, they'd get nothing but good press from the hardcore community, and the budget would be relatively small by comparison to the bloated ones they have to work with now. I mean, PE's got like twelve people working on it. You're telling me Bioware doesn't have twelve extra people to spare?

 

If nothing else, they could contract Obsidian or inXile to do it, then collect the profits. The hardcore fans get their "real Fallout 3," Bethesda makes some bank and gets a foothold in an emerging market, the fans of the new games still get the new games, the people who like both (such as yours truly) get more games to play... As far as I can see, everybody would win in that scenario.

 

That is, as long as they didn't try to use Kickstarter to fund it. Which I have a horrible suspicion they would, "to gauge interest." And somehow, inevitably, microtransactions will happen.

 

I made myself sad. :(

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Ffordesson You know what? My main disapointment with Fallout 3 wasn't the interface or the first person perspective:  It was the lack of reality and  mature moral options. You're alone in the wasteland after a nuclear war, you find a women and you don't have any options about sex? ( I wan to be clear: not nothing graphic, just the suggestion o posility ). The children city, I just wanted finish the game but that's was really a boomer for me.  

 

The problem there is manager who put a lot of money want the maximum profit. They don't care about the fans, they wanted to keep game away from a mature rate and sells millions of games. That's why your idea about a small Bethseda team is not posible and I'm happy with that. I prefer "spiritual sucesors" in the hands of guys like Inxile or Obsidian. 

 

About they trying to use kickstarter is not a posibility, this happened Feargus talk about that on some interview. One publisher tried to buy PE. 

 

Why sad? Why are living great moments, I never thought the return of isometric RPG's Could happen, and it's happening. So just enjoy. 

 

Regards

Alc Cides

Edited by Alc Cides

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I'm not sure you quite understood what I was saying, but I will agree that F3's blinkered black-and-white moral choices were a big disappointment.

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Obsidian next kickstarter will be either:

P:E 2

Avellone's kickstarter (New IP,Obsidian's P:T spiritual successor?)

New IP (Tim Cain Project Lead) (or Ziet's if he joins Obsidian permanently)

IWD 3 in P:E engine (I think Obsidian owns the IP)

 

 

Personaly i hope Obsidian does P:E 2 with P:E sales money and kickstart a new IP, so they can have 2 RPG's in development at the same time.( Not exactly the same but you understand what i mean. Also more IPs are always a good thing for a company)

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IWD 3 in P:E engine (I think Obsidian owns the IP)

 

Icewind Dale is part of Forgotten Realms IP which is under D&D IP, which owner is Wizards of the Coast, who is owned by Hasbro.

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