My thoughts on project Eternity

[Somna]

@Lephys

Actually, in that post, Sawyer was listing specific things that he didn't like about BG2, and then decided to make a more generalized statement that there wasn't much that he did like about it. It was a long time ago. I'm sure he meant what he said, although he may have changed his mind over the years.

 

Your decision to translate "There wasn't a whole lot I did like about [bG2]" into "There's not a lot in BG2 I wouldn't change if I went back in time and remade it." doesn't change the fact that he actually did say the first thing. It wasn't out of context as it was an independent statement summarizing his feelings about BG2, so your arbitrary decision to change it into something he didn't say is a reach (to say the least).

 

Does this single statement by Sawyer make me regret backing P:E? Absolutely not. Like I said, it was a long time ago that he felt this way, perhaps he's had a change of heart over the years. Is it a bit disturbing? I'd say so, yeah. I certainly hope that he isn't intentionally pretending to like a game that he despises for the sake of pandering to people that he knows are willing to throw their money at anything related in any way to BG (I tend to think that this isn't the case, but who knows).

Saying "there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it" implies that while the overall feeling is negative, there are things about the game he did like.

 

In addition, Project Eternity isn't based off of just Baldur's Gate 2. It's based off of all Baldur's Gate games, Planescape:Torment and the Icewind Dale games. So he confirmed that he didn't like a lot about a game he didn't work on (or at least hasn't been credited with). Whoop-de-doo. It's just another case of people taking a grey response as a black and white answer to start up pointless drama.

[Helm]

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with the "no xp for combat" part. XP is one part of the game and it doesn't, in any way, make or break it. If you want to play something that focuses on combat and how your "XP" progresses from it you can go back to Dungeon Siege and play it as much as you like to. Meanwhile i'm playing Vampre the Masquerade: Bloodlines for the nth time and i'm still wondering how can i be so attached to a game that gives no direct XP compensation for killing an opponent in combat; protip: it's because it's a great game anyway and the XP mechanic doesn't really break it in any way.

Bloodlines is completely different than the IE games. It is 100% linear, has very little loot, is not tactical combat based, etc. That is why quest only xp works and makes sense for Bloodlines.

 

Comparing Bloodlines to Baldur's Gate is like comparing Fallout 1+2 to Fallout 3. They are completely different.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Helm

[Helm]

Saying "there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it" implies that while the overall feeling is negative, there are things about the game he did like.

I didn't like a whole lot about Skyrim either. In other words, I do not like it at all.

 

If I made a sucessor to Skyrim, then I would change everything too. And as you can see, that is exactly what Mr. Sawyer is doing with PE. He is changing everything so it appeals to himself and not to the fans that love the Baldur's Gate series, because he hates the Baldur's gate series.

[AGX-17]

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.  I'll enumerate them below.

 

Never missing is just plain dumb.   If I want to slay a dragon, I can just sit on my couch at home and swing my sword until he dies since I can never miss.   I wouldn't mind glancing blows doing less damage, but there should be the possibility of a miss. 

 

Cooldowns.  I hate them.  Give me a vancian system, or a spell point system, or something, hell, ANYTHING besides cooldowns.  I hate them in mmos, and I don't want them in a single player rpg either.

 

Level scaling.  I understand this is to be minimal in PE, but any scaling at all is horrid.  If I level up, and simultaneously, every creature on the planet levels up, I may as well not level up at all.  Some of my finest memories of crpgs, and indeed, rpgs as far back as the 70s are about getting my ass handed to me, and returning a level or two later for revenge.  If everything is mathematically balanced to always provide X level of challenge, we may as well be fighting nothing but orcs, because everything IS an orc with a different skin.

 

No exp for kills.  If there is no exp for kills, then there's no point in exploring.   It doesn't have to be a lot of exp, but there must be some, otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.  It's unfortunate, because it otherwise sounds like an excellent game, but the above features would absolutely ruin the experience for me.   So, I guess it's back to waiting for a decent crpg and replaying the BG series for the nine hundredth time.   I suspect PE will do well, regardless, but a lot of sales will be lost due to the forcing of such unwanted mechanics on gamers.   I don't think the lack of such features would keep anyone from playing, but the existence of them will.   And all to serve some designers ego because HIS way of playing is superior to everyone elses.   So, back to waiting for a real crpg.  It's going on 13 years now.   Maybe Wasteland 2 will give me my rpg fix.

 

Doesn't matter if you buy/play the game or not, we (backers) already covered its budget. Also read the updates.

 

There should be a disclaimer for new users entering the P:E discussion boards to read all the updates before making a thread to complain about problems that don't exist, or play Game Dev Jr. and propose Obsidian use some meticulously detailed d20-derivative system of their own design for P:E's combat that flies in the face of all the confirmed info on its combat system.

Edited January 29, 2013 by AGX-17

[Helm]

Doesn't matter if you buy/play the game or not, we (backers) already covered its budget. Also read the updates.

 

There should be a disclaimer for new users entering the P:E discussion boards to read all the updates before making a thread to complain about problems that don't exist, or play Game Dev Jr. and propose Obsidian use some meticulously detailed d20-derivative system of their own design for P:E's combat that flies in the face of all the confirmed info on its combat system.

"Miss classic cRPGs like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment? So do we!"

 

Josh Sawyer does not miss Baldur's Gate, he hates it. I guess they should change it to avoid all of the confusion. Then nobody here will expect an IE style game anymore.

[Stun]

You know, if Josh disliked the BG series, then it stands to reason that he disliked it even as he was working on IWD and IWD2.... yet those games still had *so much* in common with the BGs, despite Blackisle's attempts to make them deliberately different. Same engine, same UI, same rule set, same game world, same approach to detail (item descriptions, same trash loot et. al.) Same party formations, very similar tactical gameplay feel. And lets keep in mind that IWD2 was Josh's baby. He was lead designer for it, yet it *still* gave off the same "vibe".

 

Had it come out 10 years later and been advertized as a "spiritual successor" to the BG series, we all would have played it and nodded our heads saying: "eh, pretty darn close, yes".

Edited January 29, 2013 by Stun

[uaciaut]

 

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with the "no xp for combat" part. XP is one part of the game and it doesn't, in any way, make or break it. If you want to play something that focuses on combat and how your "XP" progresses from it you can go back to Dungeon Siege and play it as much as you like to. Meanwhile i'm playing Vampre the Masquerade: Bloodlines for the nth time and i'm still wondering how can i be so attached to a game that gives no direct XP compensation for killing an opponent in combat; protip: it's because it's a great game anyway and the XP mechanic doesn't really break it in any way.

Bloodlines is completely different than the IE games. It is 100% linear, has very little loot, is not tactical combat based, etc. That is why quest only xp works and makes sense for Bloodlines.

 

Comparing Bloodlines to Baldur's Gate is like comparing Fallout 1+2 to Fallout 3. They are completely different.

 

I'm saying that the quality of the game can remain completely unaffected by how the XP system works, not that bloodlines is like bg1/2.

 

Well you can read into what i said whatever you want, can't say that i care much either way. The point is you have the right to do whatever you want with your game/money since it's your freedom and if you don't like something about the game you are free to give your opinion/constructive criticism where you are able to. But coming here and whining and crying about how you're not gonna buy it or sell it and how Sawyer is a commandos fan and hates the bg series is extremely retarded and yields nothing profitable for anyone.

Edited January 29, 2013 by uaciaut

[Helm]

You know, if Josh disliked the BG series, then it stands to reason that he disliked it even as he was working on IWD and IWD2.... yet those games still had *so much* in common with the BGs, despite Blackisle's attempts to make them deliberately different. Same engine, same UI, same rule set, same game world, same approach to detail (item descriptions, same trash loot et. al.) Same party formations, very similar tactical gameplay feel. And lets keep in mind that IWD2 was Josh's baby. He was lead designer for it, yet it *still* gave off the same "vibe".

 

Had it come out 10 years later and been advertized as a "spiritual successor" to the BG series, we all would have played it and nodded our heads saying: "eh, pretty darn close, yes".

Well, I wouldn't go so far and call Icewind Dale 2 Sawyer's baby, seeing that is basically just a carbon copy of Icewind Dale with a little variation. Not to mention that he did not design the system (D&D) and fundamental game design (which was the same for all of the IE games).

 

But yes, essentially Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate are very similar, BG just had more story and had companions (you only had PCs in IWD)... other than that they were almost exactly the same. So maybe he doesn't like Icewind Dale either. lol

[Helm]

uaciaut, on 29 Jan 2013 - 13:06, said:

 

Helm, on 29 Jan 2013 - 09:18, said:

 

 

 

uaciaut, on 29 Jan 2013 - 07:58, said:

 

 

 

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with the "no xp for combat" part. XP is one part of the game and it doesn't, in any way, make or break it. If you want to play something that focuses on combat and how your "XP" progresses from it you can go back to Dungeon Siege and play it as much as you like to. Meanwhile i'm playing Vampre the Masquerade: Bloodlines for the nth time and i'm still wondering how can i be so attached to a game that gives no direct XP compensation for killing an opponent in combat; protip: it's because it's a great game anyway and the XP mechanic doesn't really break it in any way.

Bloodlines is completely different than the IE games. It is 100% linear, has very little loot, is not tactical combat based, etc. That is why quest only xp works and makes sense for Bloodlines.

 

Comparing Bloodlines to Baldur's Gate is like comparing Fallout 1+2 to Fallout 3. They are completely different.

I'm saying that the quality of the game can remain completely unaffected by how the XP system works, not that bloodlines is like bg1/2.

And I am saying that it does matter. A lot actually. I would not want combat xp for Bloodlines, or even Deus Ex for that matter, because it doesn't fit.

uaciaut, on 29 Jan 2013 - 13:06, said:

Well you can read into what i said whatever you want, can't say that i care much either way. The point is you have the right to do whatever you want with your game/money since it's your freedom and if you don't like something about the game you are free to give your opinion/constructive criticism where you are able to. But coming here and whining and crying about how you're not gonna buy it or sell it and how Sawyer is a commandos fan and hates the bg series is extremely retarded and yields nothing profitable for anyone.

And you like to whine about my whining. But I think I just complain more out of principle, seeing that Josh completely ignores the Baldur's Gate fans, because we are all just morons who love "degenerate gameplay" (as Josh likes to say) hehe. They said they would give us a classic IE style CRPG, but instead they are giving us Josh Sawyer's retarded love child - teh RPG. I don't like being lied to. And I don't want to believe that classic tactical combat based CRPGs are truly dead.

 

I just have not given up like the rest, I think there is still hope. Maybe Sawyer will finally get his dream job at Bethesda, so he can make crappy Bethesda RPGs, the only kind he really likes.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Helm

[Malekith]

 

Doesn't matter if you buy/play the game or not, we (backers) already covered its budget. Also read the updates.

 

There should be a disclaimer for new users entering the P:E discussion boards to read all the updates before making a thread to complain about problems that don't exist, or play Game Dev Jr. and propose Obsidian use some meticulously detailed d20-derivative system of their own design for P:E's combat that flies in the face of all the confirmed info on its combat system.

"Miss classic cRPGs like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment? So do we!"

 

Josh Sawyer does not miss Baldur's Gate, he hates it. I guess they should change it to avoid all of the confusion. Then nobody here will expect an IE style game anymore.

Sawyer was on Black Isle's BG3. If he hates BG2 so what? Black Isle's BG3 would be ****? Sawyer is a professional. It doesn't matter what he prefers, he has said that P:E is not his dream project, but it belongs to Obsidian and not him.

[JFSOCC]

 

 

Doesn't matter if you buy/play the game or not, we (backers) already covered its budget. Also read the updates.

 

There should be a disclaimer for new users entering the P:E discussion boards to read all the updates before making a thread to complain about problems that don't exist, or play Game Dev Jr. and propose Obsidian use some meticulously detailed d20-derivative system of their own design for P:E's combat that flies in the face of all the confirmed info on its combat system.

"Miss classic cRPGs like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment? So do we!"

 

Josh Sawyer does not miss Baldur's Gate, he hates it. I guess they should change it to avoid all of the confusion. Then nobody here will expect an IE style game anymore.

 

 

You keep hammering on about that. He didn't like it (as much as other games) that's not the same as hate.

Secondly, So what, he's not the only one working on this game. BG2's combat DID leave a lot to be desired, imo. Josh Sawyer doesn't do the writing, that's Chris Avellone's job, so you needn't worry.

 

Besides, that was posted in 2006. Everyone has come a long way in the last few years, learned a lot, gained some wisdom and strengths.

Project Eternity wants to bring back the old magic, but that doesn't mean it will be completely the same. And I think that's a good thing. Because as much as I enjoyed Baldurs Gate II, it was a flawed game. All of them were flawed games. Why not take the best of all of them, and update the parts which were sub-par?

I think as a design philosophy that will bring us something even better.

[Helm]

Yes, you have to love the relativizing here. Let me begin.

You keep hammering on about that. He didn't like it (as much as other games) that's not the same as hate.

Right. When Josh says he hardly likes anything about Baldur's Gate he of course meant that he likes most of it.

 

Sure. lol.

Besides, that was posted in 2006. Everyone has come a long way in the last few years, learned a lot, gained some wisdom and strengths.

Right. After playing a loving Skyrim so much he has just suddenly realised that Baldur's Gate 2 was actually a really good game after hating it all those years.

 

Sure. lol

Project Eternity wants to bring back the old magic, but that doesn't mean it will be completely the same. And I think that's a good thing. Because as much as I enjoyed Baldurs Gate II, it was a flawed game. All of them were flawed games. Why not take the best of all of them, and update the parts which were sub-par?

I think as a design philosophy that will bring us something even better.

Right. The IE games are considered to be some of the best RPGs ever created. So now we must completely change them.

 

Sure. lol

 

By the way: That has never gone wrong, ever. Never ever, ever, ever. Right? hehe

Edited January 29, 2013 by Helm

[JFSOCC]

Different people focus on different things. If Sawyer is all about the mechanics, I expect combat in PE will be much better than it was in the IE games.

Edited January 29, 2013 by JFSOCC

[LadyCrimson]

I'm glad I'm not a famous super-Chef, where public/media might suddenly start re-evaluating my ability to cook/teach great restaurant meals if one day I said I really liked/ate Togo's meatball sandwiches.

 

Obsidian never said P.E. would be a clone of the older games. They seem to want a game that harkens back to those games, but that doesn't mean they (the whole team, including Sawyer) may not also see it as an opportunity to try to do new things and/or alter some mechanics that, over time, they see as something they might like to have changed/done differently. Creative people tend to do that sort of thing. (and I see nothing wrong with that)

 

From what I know of Sawyer, I also expect combat in P.E. will actually be better/more interesting than in the past IE games.

[Razsius]

Hello Helm I see you've started your own personal battle vs. Sawyer (heh...).

 

I find it somewhat funny that some see Josh's statement as an endorsement that he actually liked some parts.  What exactly did he like?  The combat?  That's about the only thing he *didn't* list.  Amazingly enough we had the IWD series which at least for the first one had a rambling Druid talking about the pains of "keeping the balance" and the like.  I almost seem to fall asleep whenever he starts talking which is definitely an improvement over the dialogue in Baldur's Gate 1 .  You'll have to forgive me Josh for not taking your word on what 'bad dialogue' might be.

 

Well on the plus side i'm back, been sick for like a week and swamped for the rest of the second week.  I'll be bumping the Degenerate Gameplay thread with an idea fueled ironically enough by Lephys and Hasat.  I was just a little annoyed with Josh's non-choice example.

 

 

I'm glad I'm not a famous super-Chef, where public/media might suddenly start re-evaluating my ability to cook/teach great restaurant meals if one day I said I really liked/ate Togo's meatball sandwiches.

 

What a lousy example.  He listed like 90% of what made Baldur's Gate 2 the game it was (quest system, companions, story arc, dialogue choice... what's left exactly?).  That's almost *all* the game systems in there.  Little bit different then having a difference of "taste".  Weak analogy.  I'm sure you can do better.

 

 

(and I see nothing wrong with that)

 

Yes you do.  You going to try telling me you've never run into a sequel of a game that played *much* worse than it's predecessor because of "innovation"?  I remember the first time I picked up Final Fantasy 8 after playing much of 7.  The combat system couldn't have been much less balanced or tedious.  I still hate that game to this day.  Great game designers know when to pass on innovation as we have plenty of designers that will innovate despite any risk.  Blizzard change their games overly much?  No?  Huh... I wonder why.

[Doppelschwert]

 

 

You keep hammering on about that. He didn't like it (as much as other games) that's not the same as hate.

Right. When Josh says he hardly likes anything about Baldur's Gate he of course meant that he likes most of it.

 

Sure. lol.

 

 

Thats quite a binary world you're living in where someone can only like or hate something. You know, there are some nuances between hating and liking. Like "not liking" something for example.

 

 

Besides, that was posted in 2006. Everyone has come a long way in the last few years, learned a lot, gained some wisdom and strengths.

Right. After playing a loving Skyrim so much he has just suddenly realised that Baldur's Gate 2 was actually a really good game after hating it all those years.

 

Sure. lol

 

 

Again, he didn't hate it and even if he still doesn't like it that doesn't matter anyway. Most of his influence consists of gameplay elements which are the only thing he didn't mention in that interview anyway.

 

 

Project Eternity wants to bring back the old magic, but that doesn't mean it will be completely the same. And I think that's a good thing. Because as much as I enjoyed Baldurs Gate II, it was a flawed game. All of them were flawed games. Why not take the best of all of them, and update the parts which were sub-par?

I think as a design philosophy that will bring us something even better.

Right. The IE games are considered to be some of the best RPGs ever created. So now we must completely change them.

 

Sure. lol

 

By the way: That has never gone wrong, ever. Never ever, ever, ever. Right? hehe

 

 

It's way easier to dismiss everything by vastly exagerating the argument of the opposing party and saying "sure, lol" instead of arguing the actual statements...

 

Although the IE games heavily featured combat, there was way more to them that gave them the reputation they enjoy today, and most of the things are independent of mr. sawyer. More to the point, we don't know anything about most parts of the game so its totally nuts to say they completely change the games. And I'd still argue that combat in BG2 wasn't the greatest thing ever. Thats a personal preference and expecting everyone on the development team to feel the same way about everything just doesn't work. Also, that would kill creativity pretty fast. Want a BG2 clone? Go play a mod.

 

Besides, I don't get what you want to achieve with your whining? If I was mr. sawyer and were remotely in charge for all the things you assume he would be, you'd propably be the last person in this forum I'd be making a concession for giving the immature way you're acting.

[LadyCrimson]

What a lousy example.  He listed like 90% of what made Baldur's Gate 2 the game it was (quest system, companions, story arc, dialogue choice... what's left exactly?).  That's almost *all* the game systems in there.  Little bit different then having a difference of "taste".  Weak analogy.  I'm sure you can do better.

I was referencing the other notion that Helm seems rather obessed with ... that Sawyer liking to play Skyrim in his off hours is somehow a sign of game design apocalypse.

[Nonek]

And yay I looked and saw that the third seal was broken, from it came a host of surprisingly weak dragons to bedevil the lands of Skyrim. All manner of nice scenic hikes were interrupted by draconic flames, so that the people rose up and cried in one tormented voice. "Bugger, was hoping to get a few rounds of golf in at Whiterun today as well."

 

And there was much clipping of teeth.

[Helm]

Besides, I don't get what you want to achieve with your whining? If I was mr. sawyer and were remotely in charge for all the things you assume he would be, you'd propably be the last person in this forum I'd be making a concession for giving the immature way you're acting.

Ah, but 'Tis not only I junior disciple. I am only the harbinger of the upcoming vexation.

 

The time of vexation will soon be upon us. Heed my warnings! Forsake ye dastardly god and repent for your sins!

Edited January 29, 2013 by Helm

[uaciaut]

 

 

I'm glad I'm not a famous super-Chef, where public/media might suddenly start re-evaluating my ability to cook/teach great restaurant meals if one day I said I really liked/ate Togo's meatball sandwiches.

 

What a lousy example.  He listed like 90% of what made Baldur's Gate 2 the game it was (quest system, companions, story arc, dialogue choice... what's left exactly?).  That's almost *all* the game systems in there.  Little bit different then having a difference of "taste".  Weak analogy.  I'm sure you can do better.

 

 

She's saying that the guy is turning every detail of every public thing Josh Sawyer is doing into an argument against him, basically he's desperate and drawing whatever straws he can reach to attack the guy. I'm expecting him to attack his political prefferences next

 

Also to add on what you're saying Josh hated about BG2 - at least in the quote Helm gave - he attacked the fact that you HAD to go get Imoen and the story arc, which are things i actually agree with lol. BG2 plot line was almost full cliche - you get kidnapped by someone escape and then track them down to save your childhood friend (who turns out to be your sister for that extra soap opera oomph).

The real beauty of BG2 wasn't the pretty foreseeable ending, it was the road you had to take to get there and how you interacted with theworld on your way. Bear in mind that i'm saying this with BG2 being my all-time favourite game, ahead of Planescape and NWN2:MoB which have way better plotlines.

 

These aren't even things you CAN attack because you pretty much don't have any details on the dialogue and quest system yet and you have plenty of incredible people working on those too, i don't get how you can ****ing cry about **** you don't even know about based on the sole fact that someone said they didn't like something you did D:

 

 

(and I see nothing wrong with that)

 

Yes you do.  You going to try telling me you've never run into a sequel of a game that played *much* worse than it's predecessor because of "innovation"?

 

 

LMBO, innovation is THE DEVIL, HEAR THAT PAGANS, THE DEVIL!!! Back to the first edidtion ad&d drawing board with ye!

[Helm]

She's saying that the guy is turning every detail of every public thing Josh Sawyer is doing into an argument against him, basically he's desperate and drawing whatever straws he can reach to attack the guy. I'm expecting him to attack his political prefferences next

I see that Sawyer's little disciples really hate the fact that lead designer Josh Sawyer hates Baldur's Gate.

[Malekith]

 

Besides, I don't get what you want to achieve with your whining? If I was mr. sawyer and were remotely in charge for all the things you assume he would be, you'd propably be the last person in this forum I'd be making a concession for giving the immature way you're acting.

Ah, but 'Tis not only I junior disciple. I am only the harbinger of the upcoming vexation.

 

The time of vexation will soon be upon us. Heed my warnings! Forsake ye dastardly god and repent for your sins!

Seriously?

I believe BG2 is the best RPG ever created.(with P:T as a close second).

With that said lets take Sawyer's quote:I really disliked most of the CNPCs, I really disliked being forced to go find Imoen, I really disliked the style of dialogue, and I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla. Basically, there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it. 

CNPCs/Dialogue: Baldur's Gate series had less serious tone, with humorous and sometimes silly writting. To not like that tone is strictly matter of preference. All of Black Isle's games were more serious in tone.(IWD,P:T) Chances are BG3:The Black Hound would be more serious that BG1+2, the same as Van Buren or New Vegas were more serious than Fallout 2 as long as Sawyer was lead designer. Unless you liked BG2 only for the silliness that won't be a problem.

Being forced to go find Imoen: That was a weak hook for the player. I remember the first time i played the game that bothered me too. It was not good design.

I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla: here i (and i believe most people out there) disagree with Sawyer.The quest system was the strongest part of the game, and the amount of content that game had was sited as one of the better points as well.

[Tamerlane]

 

 

Besides, I don't get what you want to achieve with your whining? If I was mr. sawyer and were remotely in charge for all the things you assume he would be, you'd propably be the last person in this forum I'd be making a concession for giving the immature way you're acting.

Ah, but 'Tis not only I junior disciple. I am only the harbinger of the upcoming vexation.

 

The time of vexation will soon be upon us. Heed my warnings! Forsake ye dastardly god and repent for your sins!

Seriously?

I believe BG2 is the best RPG ever created.(with P:T as a close second).

It's kinda funny. Like, PST is my Favourite RPG Ever, but I could complain about pretty much every aspect of it. Same goes for VTMB or NieR or Ultima Underworld or any other Favourite RPG Ever of mine.

[Calmar]

I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla: here i (and i believe most people out there) disagree with Sawyer.The quest system was the strongest part of the game, and the amount of content that game had was sited as one of the better points as well.

 

 

I fully agree. The huge amount of side quests is, I think, the main reason Baldur's Gate II feels so vast and free. The main plot itself is actually rather brief and mostly linear.

[Helm]

Relativize all you want, it won't change the fact that Josh Sawyer said that he does not like Baldur's Gate 2 + Throne of Bhaal.