Thieving

[Durinax]

I would appreciate it if the world isn't static in terms of keys and such. For example in Arcanum you could loot the one shop keeper for all he was worth, wait a couple days and do it again, or sell him unidentified stuff and he would identify them, and you just grabbed them out of the chest. I would greatly enjoy it if you could do the same thing, but after a while the shop keep would change locks, and become harder to pick pocket, and maybe if you do it a few more times he would hire bounty hunters, or police presence would increase around his shop

[Hormalakh]

If it's feasible and easy to do, that would be cool.

[GhostofAnakin]

Or make smarter shopkeepers. Eventually, he should put 2 and 2 together to realize that every time your party comes into his store, he seems to have less inventory after you've left.

[Osvir]

Or make smarter shopkeepers. Eventually, he should put 2 and 2 together to realize that every time your party comes into his store, he seems to have less inventory after you've left.

 

Well, just as long as I haven't had the time to get to be a Demi-God until that point (the shopkeeper should realize faster, after 2-3 times) because then I'd just be "Fool, take a blast of magic to your face. One-Hit-Kill!" or intimidate him. What about Ciphers? "You will forget we were ever here while we steal all your stuff.. bye!".

[TheDogProfessor]

I think that would be really cool. It would add to feeling like the world existed outside of the main character which is always a good thing (unless the world exists only in the character's mind...).

[Tamerlane]

Or make smarter shopkeepers. Eventually, he should put 2 and 2 together to realize that every time your party comes into his store, he seems to have less inventory after you've left.

 

Well, just as long as I haven't had the time to get to be a Demi-God until that point (the shopkeeper should realize faster, after 2-3 times) because then I'd just be "Fool, take a blast of magic to your face. One-Hit-Kill!" or intimidate him. What about Ciphers? "You will forget we were ever here while we steal all your stuff.. bye!".

Unless he's the shopkeeper from Link's Awakening.

 

Ain't nobody ****ed with the shopkeeper from Link's Awakening.

[jezz555]

I mean it kind of broke the economy of Arcanum for me when I realized I could get infinite money by coming back to rob Riztezze blind day after day

Edited November 16, 2012 by jezz555

[Osvir]

Another thought about Thieving that I bring up in this WoT.

 

Sending out Characters on Tasks (Burglary) when you are in a City. They'd loot places, pickpocket and even have a chance to get caught. Depending on how well they do, they'd get experience (let's say 43 experience) in Pickpocket skill and the rest of your party would get a % of that (The more party members the lesser the experience you get). Speech would function like this too. Why? Because Out of Combat techniques can easily be taught and passed on in inter-party Tutoring. See my WoT for more information. Some things to think about before sending out:

 

* [speech] Skill so your Rogue can speak him/herself out of situations with the guard (and perhaps send him/her with some coin so that he/she can pay his/her way out of the situation).

* [burglary] Skill.

* Good [stealth] or equivalent (Maybe Stealth is a Sub-Skill of Burglary?).

* Optimal Gear (e.g., not Full Plate Mail)

* Night heightens chances of successful looting without getting caught, Days do the opposite.

* If your Rogue is sent to Jail he gets to serve time and/or you can save him.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Osvir

[Agelastos]

... and if you ever get caught, you should get your right hand chopped off, making it impossible to dual-wield or use two-handed weapons and tools.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Agelastos

[Osvir]

... and if you ever get caught, you should get your right hand chopped off, making it impossible to dual-wield or use two-handed weapons and tools.

 

... unless you get prosthetic magical hand

[maggotheart]

I like this idea, but really I'll just be happy if something could be done with thievery/pickpocket where a failure doesn't instantly make the entire map turn red to me, which only forces a reload. I'd always abuse that trick where you could pause and immediately re-engage the shopkeeper to prevent him from going hostile.

[Osvir]

^Perhaps not the entire map has to go red, but the character that stole is now wanted and if a guard sees you with the "criminal" you get to defend him/her with some words, gold or send him/her to jail.

[kabaliero]

Yeah, thievery is a tricky thing in game.

Wonder how many RL thieves would like to have save\load.

Because, let's face it, it's just lol.

 

Devs should really think of something serious to make thief's life, at least, not easy.

[BetrayTheWorld]

Wonder how many RL people wouldn't like to have save\load.

 

Fixed.

Edited November 18, 2012 by BetrayTheWorld

[kabaliero]

Wonder how many RL people wouldn't like to have save\load.

 

Fixed.

 

right

[AGX-17]

A more believable scenario would be that if you robbed a shop/merchant of everything, the merchant would go out of business, close shop, skip town in search of a new start and that building would be repurposed by the town's merchant prince ruler, sold by the merchant for the money needed for a new start or even abandoned.

Edited November 19, 2012 by AGX-17

[Agelastos]

A more believable scenario would be that if you robbed a shop/merchant of everything, the merchant would go out of business, close shop, skip town in search of a new start and that building would be repurposed by the town's merchant prince ruler, sold by the merchant for the money needed for a new start or even abandoned.

 

and his competitors would raise their prices.

[BetrayTheWorld]

A more believable scenario would be that if you robbed a shop/merchant of everything, the merchant would go out of business, close shop, skip town in search of a new start and that building would be repurposed by the town's merchant prince ruler, sold by the merchant for the money needed for a new start or even abandoned.

 

and his competitors would raise their prices.

 

At first, this idea sounds brilliant.

 

While this is a realistic assumption based on real markets, assuming the pool of competitors is small enough, I don't think it should apply here on much of a noticeable scale. There are several reasons for this.

 

First, in an RPG, there are several things that are to be considered abstractions. One of those things, as represented in a "big" city in a game, is it's merchants. Sure, mechanically, you may only have the option of purchasing weapons from 1-3 merchants in a town. However, this is simply a representation of the available merchandise. In a "real" big city, you'd have many such options, so driving 1 of them out of business would impact the overall marketplace minimally. It's not until you impact the majority that you'd see these kinds of changes occur. In smaller villages, however, this issue wouldn't necessarily apply. It's very feasible for a village to only have 1 blacksmith.

 

Second, if such a system was implemented, it'd need to be forgiving enough not to discourage players from playing a particular style of play. You wouldn't want to make playing a thief less viable because using your thieving skills makes the rest of the game more difficult(ie higher prices).

 

While there are probably ways to implement this sort of thing effectively, I'd prefer to see effort spent towards making thieving more realistic, so that "cleaning someone out" isn't really as viable of an option. I've noticed in several games, people stand by and watch you pick locks in their house, empty their drawers, and still speak to you as if everything is hunky dorey. I'd prefer that people in the game care about their belongings, and actively seek to protect them. As far as pickpocketing goes, I think a system that had increasing difficulty for subsequent attempts would work well. This would be accompanied by the ability to target specific items in your target's inventory for theft, and create a scenario where people would need to carefully choose the items they tried to steal, rather than just stealing everything they see.

 

It's also more realistic. If you bump into someone on the subway, and lift their wallet, you can probably get away with it if you're good. But if you bump into someone 37 times, leaving them wearing a pair of socks and a smile, I don't think they're going to accept your "Scuse me, sir."

Edited November 19, 2012 by BetrayTheWorld

[Agelastos]

 

At first, this idea sounds brilliant.

 

While this is a realistic assumption based on real markets, assuming the pool of competitors is small enough, I don't think it should apply here on much of a noticeable scale. There are several reasons for this.

 

First, in an RPG, there are several things that are to be considered abstractions. One of those things, as represented in a "big" city in a game, is it's merchants. Sure, mechanically, you may only have the option of purchasing weapons from 1-3 merchants in a town. However, this is simply a representation of the available merchandise. In a "real" big city, you'd have many such options, so driving 1 of them out of business would impact the overall marketplace minimally. It's not until you impact the majority that you'd see these kinds of changes occur. In smaller villages, however, this issue wouldn't necessarily apply. It's very feasible for a village to only have 1 blacksmith.

 

Second, if such a system was implemented, it'd need to be forgiving enough not to discourage players from playing a particular style of play. You wouldn't want to make playing a thief less viable because using your thieving skills makes the rest of the game more difficult(ie higher prices).

 

While there are probably ways to implement this sort of thing effectively, I'd prefer to see effort spent towards making thieving more realistic, so that "cleaning someone out" isn't really as viable of an option. I've noticed in several games, people stand by and watch you pick locks in their house, empty their drawers, and still speak to you as if everything is hunky dorey. I'd prefer that people in the game care about their belongings, and actively seek to protect them. As far as pickpocketing goes, I think a system that had increasing difficulty for subsequent attempts would work well. This would be accompanied by the ability to target specific items in your target's inventory for theft, and create a scenario where people would need to carefully choose the items they tried to steal, rather than just stealing everything they see.

 

It wasn't really meant as a serious suggestion. And when I wrote it, I was thinking of a small village with maybe two or three weapon vendors, not a big city (since they tend to be very rare in cRPGs, if they even exist). Excellent point, though.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Agelastos