Magic and ingredients

[Jojobobo]

I'd say yes for a lengthy and involved magical ritual with complex effects, but no for simple (the majority of) spells, so I voted other. Necessitating ingredients for most spells would not be a fun mechanic IMO, on top of this they have said they'll already have grimoires in the game - so that'll probably make spells a bit more resource management based as it is.

[Pony]

In my opinion, Ingredients are for "ritual magic", so as long as it is "soul-based magic" there should not be ingredients.

Exception could be for high-grade spells, such reagents should be somehow soul-connected, like sacrificing something living.

[Agelastos]

It's not magic if it takes ingredients, that's one of the following:

A. Cooking

B. Alchemy

C. Chemistry

 

"Less sense than usual"? Have you read anything about medieval hedge witchcraft, ceremonial magic such as theurgy or goety, or even your own country's tradition of stave magic?

Material spell components are vital in all of them, even if they don't all use herbal reagents. Fetishes, sigils and other foci are spell components.

 

Fun fact: That doesn't matter because MAGIC ISN'T REAL.

 

Functional magic may or may not be real (probably not), but magic is still very much real - at least in the anthropological sense.

Personally, as a life-long student of occultism, I would like it if Obsidian would at least try to emulate real world magic systems.

I can't think of a single cRPG that's tried to do that in the last 10-15 years...

 

Maybe a reagent system isn't the way to go, but magic should require some kind of material component IMO.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Agelastos

[Wulfic]

I always looked at magic as a sort of manipulation of the elements. I didnt like the Idea that a mage could poof a magic violet sword out of nowhere and stuff like this, and therefore I always imagined mages to be manipulators of elements ( Like in Avatar the benders, I created my idea long before the show ). The plan was that mages always specialize in only one element. If they were born in winter theyre element was Water if Summer it was fire,spring was earth and Fall was air. They can still use other elements but they have to use more life energy to do so. Instead of mana I used life. What does this mean ? Well if a mage casts often spells hes likely to die at a young age. This is why mages learn to fight with light swords ( rapiers or Messer ) and bucklers to try not to cast a spell everytime. So that is my imagination of mages. Ofc in my setting mages were forbidden. They were killed by templars when they saw first signs of any form of magic. They were killed often being only small babies ( This idea came to me just before the announcement of DA:O at the time I didnt know they had the same Idea as I did : P ). The Idea is that they can only cast spells if they are in their element. The air manipulators have an Easy job Air is everywhere. the strength of the spells depends on the strength of the wind. Water manipulators can only cast when water is around the same goes for fire and earth. It would be cool to see such a system in P:E. I dont like the spells in D&D theyre kind off weird. Magic missile and such dont have really a good explanation. And I like low fantasy therefore Hail the elements !

 

( sorry for my bad writing I try but im not the best at english )

[teknoman2]

 

 

Functional magic may or may not be real (probably not), but magic is still very much real - at least in the anthropological sense.

Personally, as a life-long student of occultism, I would like it if Obsidian would at least try to emulate real world magic systems.

I can't think of a single cRPG that's tried to do that in the last 10-15 years...

 

Maybe a reagent system isn't the way to go, but magic should require some kind of material component IMO.

maybe, but not in this game. the magic is based on innate soul powers, something like the force or x-men's abilities, so it has by default no need for material components

[Sedrefilos]

Spells + components is childish

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I like the idea of mixing ingredients to augment spells so you get a bigger fire ball, or maybe thats how you create Melf's magic missile/acid arrows, etc. Although I don't want to have to manage too many resources or clog up my inv too much.

[teknoman2]

melf's acid arrow is a component based spell according to forgoten realms lore. it requires a piece of lizard liver soaked in citric acid and an actual arrow to cast. in games they removed the material component for ease of use, so you wont have to have your inventory full of lizard livers

[AGX-17]

It's not magic if it takes ingredients, that's one of the following:

A. Cooking

B. Alchemy

C. Chemistry

 

"Less sense than usual"? Have you read anything about medieval hedge witchcraft, ceremonial magic such as theurgy or goety, or even your own country's tradition of stave magic?

Material spell components are vital in all of them, even if they don't all use herbal reagents. Fetishes, sigils and other foci are spell components.

 

Fun fact: That doesn't matter because MAGIC ISN'T REAL.

 

Functional magic may or may not be real (probably not), but magic is still very much real - at least in the anthropological sense.

Personally, as a life-long student of occultism, I would like it if Obsidian would at least try to emulate real world magic systems.

I can't think of a single cRPG that's tried to do that in the last 10-15 years...

 

Maybe a reagent system isn't the way to go, but magic should require some kind of material component IMO.

 

You mean superstitions and magical thinking are real in an anthropological sense. For tens of thousands of years your irrational "magic" accomplished nothing, while in the last 300 years, rational thought and objective research have given us the entire modern world with all its technologies, medicines, conveniences and grand achievements. There are 7 billion people on Earth because of scientific developments, not because shamans finally succeeded in appeasing the rage of the fertility goddess to improve worldwide grain yields and the god of smallpox was vanquished by clerics of light.

 

The internet you are using is the result of rational observation and experimentation with electromagnetism, a natural force, not the result of a coven of witches hiding the in the guise of server hubs transmitting psychic signals.

 

Witchcraft and voodoo priests don't put satellites in orbit, engineers and scientists do.

Edited November 24, 2012 by AGX-17

[Agelastos]

You mean superstitions and magical thinking are real in an anthropological sense.

<snip>

 

Those are psychological terms and are pretty much taboo in the anthropological and ethnological fields because they are considered derogatory, at least here in Scandinavia.

 

Oh for ****'s sake! Now you're just being insulting for no reason. I already told you that I wasn't necessarily talking about functional magic. I was talking about magical beliefs and practices both in less developed parts of the world and in our own Western culture's history, and about modern occultism. I don't actually believe in magic, if that's what you're implying, (nor do I actively disbelieve in it) but I do think it's pretty damn arrogant to call it superstition.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Agelastos

[Agelastos]

Also, I think you're greatly underestimating the level of insight into the natural world that a lot of practitioners of magic had, and have.

Especially those mystics during Antiquity - and then again during and after the Renaissance - who practiced Natural Magic, as they tended to be true polymaths

A lot of them made great contributions to the natural sciences.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Agelastos

[Pipyui]

I shouldn't throw myself so willingly into the gunfire here, but I don't think that magic being "real" or "superstitious garbage" in the real world is relavent to a fantasy RPG. The fun thing about fiction is that you get creative license to shape "reality" as you see fit.

 

However Obsidian decides to implement magic in PE, I don't think that arguments of "real" or "false" apply, so long as there is ample narrative to support their mechanics. Sufficient narrative continuity to the system is what's important here.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I voted yes. Some of the most powerful spells should require ingredients(looking at wish and timestop in particular), the majority of spells should not require them though.

[Jymm]

Ditto KaineParker. I voted "yes", but barely. Managing material components is obnoxious busy work, IMO. But having some powerful spells which require specialized or even unique ingredients is the stuff of legend. That part is cool.

[Hormalakh]

Spells + components is childish

 

Saying something "is childish" is childish.

[Atreides]

Sure for a large spell - possibly a quest. But not for common magic or combat.