Respectful discussion

[Gatt9]

I don't know, maybe I'm just new here and I'm seeing patterns that aren't there or this is something that's just part of the culture around here and that's just something to accept. If that's the case, feel free to just let this thread die.

But if anyone else thinks what I'm saying here has merit, can we start trying to make a better effort towards respecting each-other and and keeping discussions on track?

 

You're right of course. My experience in this forum, and every other forum, has been that things fall apart when you have a topic that pits arch-types of Gamers against one another. Console vs PC, LARPSer vs RPGer, 4th edition vs every other edition of D&D, Vancian vs Mana, at that point you have a battle of philosophies which generally does not end well as at that point the posters are no longer trying to discuss a topic so much as validate their preference(s) involved.

 

IMO, and no offense to the mods, but perhaps those kinds of topics should get one stickied moderated thread and kill off any other threads on those kinds of philisophical topics? It's been my experience that approach tends to be effective in managing topics that tend to be both frequent and inflammatory.

 

It can be pretty annoying to talk to people who just plainly do not read your post... it's... hard.

 

Perhaps you could investigate what it was that caused people to quit reading your posts? People don't randomly make those kinds of decisions.

[themanclaw]

In an ideal world, we'd all meet up and discuss the project over drinks. That would weed out the internet trolls and be more fun... if only.

 

But, in all seriousness though, I once saw the subject of religion in the game come up and DIDN'T turn into a flame war, even after several replies. That must be some kind of record for civility on the internet. I like it here.

[Osvir]

WALL OF TEXT, replying to several posts in one post

 

While I agree 100% with this, was it really something that needed to be addressed? I kind of thought this sort of behavior was, you know, expected. Everyone knows they should be civil, some just don't care, and I doubt starting a thread telling them to is going to change that.

 

It's unfortunate, but no amount of patronizing can stop the internet from being the internet.

 

Edit: Smiley face for positive inflection.

 

Communication. I think it's great to talk about how you feel about stuff, which the OP does here. Maybe everyone comes to the conclusion that you should get 15 points every level up to spend on your different techniques and skills but someone really does not like it and just sees 100 holes and issues in it but is (like you say) ignored in the thread, he/she/it would have to bring it up in a thread and say "Warning!!" and explain all the issues with this invisible example.

 

This forum is awesome in my opinion, and like the latest update they speak about their talents in the studio, and I know that there are some pretty awesome talented people hanging out in these forums (apart from the Developers). Communication is a sense of professionalism.

 

TL;DR@pip: Talking about professionalism, feelings and ignore/being ignored.

 

I agree with your observations. As most of us know, trolls are only a problem if you keep feeding them with attention. You don't win by reacting to them because that's exactly what they want. The ignore list is a handy feature. If you see a post or reply that clearly isn't adding to or moving the topic forward, smile, then recite the words "cool story bro" and move on. It's pretty magical.

 

"cool story bro" is my mantra and what I try to feel (genuinely) about what everyone writes and says here "not interested" is a most excellent incantation when you're not interested in battle.

 

I talk about this a little further below; being able to decide and choose to "Read and be inspired" before you start reading.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm just new here and I'm seeing patterns that aren't there or this is something that's just part of the culture around here and that's just something to accept. If that's the case, feel free to just let this thread die.

But if anyone else thinks what I'm saying here has merit, can we start trying to make a better effort towards respecting each-other and and keeping discussions on track?

 

You're right of course. My experience in this forum, and every other forum, has been that things fall apart when you have a topic that pits arch-types of Gamers against one another. Console vs PC, LARPSer vs RPGer, 4th edition vs every other edition of D&D, Vancian vs Mana, at that point you have a battle of philosophies which generally does not end well as at that point the posters are no longer trying to discuss a topic so much as validate their preference(s) involved.

 

IMO, and no offense to the mods, but perhaps those kinds of topics should get one stickied moderated thread and kill off any other threads on those kinds of philisophical topics? It's been my experience that approach tends to be effective in managing topics that tend to be both frequent and inflammatory.

 

It can be pretty annoying to talk to people who just plainly do not read your post... it's... hard.

 

Perhaps you could investigate what it was that caused people to quit reading your posts? People don't randomly make those kinds of decisions.

 

@Gatt9: I've never LARPed but I've heard stories about it and it seems super fun, likewise I could prefer/choose not to do it and excuse myself from it either rudely or casually. I did play a Big Game of Paintball (Woodsball, about 1500 people, a constant flow of 500 vs 500 for 8 hours, w/ zombies) which was amazingly fun.

 

The point: There are people who are ambidextrous, or they try their best to be both right-handed and left-handed (which is likewise important, just as much as communication), like when we were 2-3 years old trying to get the triangle in the triangle puzzle why is this logo so popular/conscious? Because it's a part of many people's childhood.

 

Ambidexterity is needed in discussions, you need someone who says A, and you need someone who says against with B, then there is person C that manages to create a new letter combining A and B.

 

I'm going to try and think of some Firestarter Topics/Ideas (that are not Romance/Relationship that people are just way too touchy about, as if it's some girly group pressure "I'm part of the Hate-Romance"~Gang, we get it, the developers get it, you get it. Now get over it).

 

TL;DR@Gatt9: Versus might be good.

 

@Hassat Hunter: Yes I'm with Gatt9, there's several ways to look at it, what do you write when you make short statements versus long statements? I don't mean to be rude in anyway, try looking yourself in the mirror some times (just saying because it can be perceived as a rude statement), is everything perfect or is it something that you can improve upon? You might say "nothing is perfect" and I'd agree, but you can always improve, make yourself seen and heard by adding bold or an underline. I am super conscious about my "bold" and such, and it might be seen as attention whoring because that's exactly what it is, I want to be heard in the best possible way, where it is easier for you to read it.

It all comes down to the self. (I'm conscious that the dot is golden rod too, because it just looks better in my opinion) You have to decide that you are going to read that "Big Paragraph of Text", you have the power to decide "I am going to be inspired" before you read anything.

 

Apart from the amazing people here, I find myself coming back because of the "writing tools" that exist within the forum here and I just want to drop my mega story into this formula and see what happens with it, but it's my baby.

 

In many ways you receive what you give, I feel that when I read posts more intently I get more of a response back, but when I just lurk around and scroll around or only write my own posts without reading at all (which I often do because I'm inspired at the moment and I can read something and feel "No I got to write this inspiration down right now before I lose it!" then I read the thread after.

 

TL;DR@Hassat: About hearing and making oneself heard.

 

In an ideal world, we'd all meet up and discuss the project over drinks. That would weed out the internet trolls and be more fun... if only.

 

But, in all seriousness though, I once saw the subject of religion in the game come up and DIDN'T turn into a flame war, even after several replies. That must be some kind of record for civility on the internet. I like it here.

 

Well, we could try some Funday Monday stuff (Day9) where we have a day where we talk about whatever topics and have fun perhaps "Events" a la "A Giant Beast from Hell has Surfaced and now you must defeat it!" type of thing where we get to roleplay and someone can act as a "DM" (Only the 6 first posters can join in the actual fight or interaction, to simulate a Baldur's Gate feel with 6 different heroes). Lots could be painted in a battle like this (yes you can paint with words as well):

 

* Environments

* Enemies

* Techniques

* Classees

* Races

* Combat

* Non-Combat

etc. etc. all depending on the event. Is it a squeeky wooden floor?

 

TL;DR@theman: About having fun

 

TL;DR Misc: Talking about communication, with a mindset on how to do it professionally/effectively fun.

 

My dad works at one of the (actually the) biggest newspapers in Sweden and I asked him about some tools they use when they communicate. They are a business with about 500 employees and believe that communication is a part of success. How can those methods be applied to here?

 

Step 1, The big brass (5-6 people) they only want money, they are happy as long as the charts on "sales" show "Better better better" (Obsidian does not have a publisher or investor that stresses them in this way, so they can relax about that)

 

Step 2, To make the company grow the brass needs to build ideas and have orders in the ways of "We want a new product". But before the product is made they hand out envelopes on "How can we do this best?" they hand it out to perhaps 1 (Mid-Boss) people in the next chain of line.

 

Step 3, My dad told me they entered this big theatre hall, one guy on stage, everyone gets a random number, and gets sorted into random groups.

 

Step 4, In their random group number they get sent to a room where they discuss this idea and everyone gets to say what they think and feel about it.

 

Step 5, At the end of the discussion everyone has to say 1 good thing about someone else's idea (This means that a Topic Starter needs to "take care" more of their own threads, like the Speaker in a political debate, or summarize if it's a long thread every now and then. Perhaps when no one replies to it anymore ask everyone what everyone thought was good in each others ideas *shrug*)

 

In another Thread I speak about "More Sub-Forums". My implication is that if a Sub-Forum would be titled "Magic" it could correspond to Step 4

 

TL;DR2: Talking business models, philosophy and communication techniques.

 

Finally, one thing I oft feel is when I ask outright when I begin writing about a topic and I ask a question (to everyone) like "Should there be a thread about this?" or "Should there be a poll?" I don't get an answer and I am wondering if people here understand that I am talking to them and not the Developers only, how many reads/skims/scrolls?, maybe no one really cares , or worse, thinking I am only talking towards the Developers. (I'm a combination and am aware that I both benefit in time but at the cost of loss of knowledge, which is a bad choice. Passion and eagerness of the mindset of creating a game takes over)

 

Are you still hanging around because you are addicted, passionate or because you want to create your game?

 

I'm personally here to create the best game with "We" in focus, together we stand as one <3

 

Hypothetically speaking it (personally) doesn't have to be what "P:E" becomes but a fictive game, a digital forum game only in text. What would you be able to do with Magic in this game?

 

TL;DR3: Have we had much time to listen to each other? How much have we been listening to ourselves?

Edited November 10, 2012 by Osvir

[BruceVC]

Apart from occasional pew pew, Obsidian forum is one of the better game communities out there.

 

As long as the discussion is not about game romance.

 

Nice post Op.

I have noticed increased vitriol around some of the comments in the various Romance\Sex posts from people against Romance\Sex. But apart from that I think these forums are generally cordial

[Monte Carlo]

Romance threads need vitriol. It is the chilli of righteousness on the hotdog of sappy, girly lameness.

[SophosTheWise]

I lurk around on BSN, Valve forums and RPGCodex. Obsidian forums are very friendly and reasonable compared to those.

 

But OP's point is appreciated, we should try to keep the discussions at a higher level and not devolve into name-calling.

 

RPGcodex is just very extreme and dark, but, as a part-time-lurker there, I don't think they're really serious. It's just a bunch of dark-humoured elitists.

[Pshaw]

With a few exceptions (like the romance thread) I've found most discussion on this forum to be pretty constructive or at least civil. It's the main reason I've decided to stick around.

 

However I think in some respects the idea of discussion being required is where forums go wrong. I like that forums allow for a bit of back and forth but in the end for the most part you won't ever change anybody's mind. So I think that discussion while well intentioned is what leads to the bickering and fighting. I think things are generally better off when left what you think and moving on.

[Pipyui]

I like that forums allow for a bit of back and forth but in the end for the most part you won't ever change anybody's mind. So I think that discussion while well intentioned is what leads to the bickering and fighting. I think things are generally better off when left what you think and moving on.

 

Though I think you're right about this for the most part, I feel that with reasonable responsibility civil arguing can be productive - that is, so long as the conversation doesn't degrade into polar arguments, each party unwilling to compromise and just throwing out the same responses ad nauseam. I think tossing ideas around to be a constructive exercise, one just needs be careful in how they choose to respond to a topic.

[AGX-17]

I haven't seen any problems thus far. I've gotten no warnings, so my most extreme behavior is either acceptable or stealthy enough to elude moderation.

[Osvir]

I haven't seen any problems thus far. I've gotten no warnings, so my most extreme behavior is either acceptable or stealthy enough to elude moderation.

 

^This. I'm surprised I haven't got any warnings, sometimes I'm wondering if it is lying to me or no one knows where the warning or report button is, or no one just cares about warning each other (talking about this thread), which I think is good. But like Monte Carlo says in the Romance thread, brace for impact

[Dream]

The problem is some people want a game and some people want a medieval life simulator.

[mcmanusaur]

The problem is some people want a game and some people want a medieval life simulator.

This isn't a puzzle game or hack-and-slash, this is an RPG. Aka R-o-l-e P-l-a-y-i-n-g. Which contrary to popular belief goes beyond any old fantasy game that uses the DnD system.

[Dream]

The problem is some people want a game and some people want a medieval life simulator.

This isn't a puzzle game or hack-and-slash, this is an RPG. Aka R-o-l-e P-l-a-y-i-n-g. Which contrary to popular belief goes beyond any old fantasy game that uses the DnD system.

 

There are as many genres of RPG as there are of games in general. P:E was advertised very specifically as a modern Infinity Engine game like PS:T, BG, and IWD.