Update #29: Fulfillment and the Pros and Cons of Nostalgia and Realism

[Somna]

I wouldn't consider something like just Manticore spines to be "unique" on its own. Now if you added addtional restrictions on the spines, such as the spines collected off a live Manticore tail from a specific Manticore infamous for shredding the toughest barriers, and you were going to use the spines as javelin heads...that would be getting there in terms of "unique."

[Lynx88]

But of course, there are many ways to skin a manticore. That was just an example, on the understanding that the manticore in question is also a 1-time encounter like a 'boss' fight sort of thing that you mentioned.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to make it as in depth as Monster Hunter in terms of harvesting bodyparts and materials though.

[Cantousent]

I like how the update has created a more holistic discussion of different things. Armor is important because it protects people against weapons. It can be enhanced by magic and created, enhanced, or modified by crafting. When we discuss armor, we're actually discussing how everything relates to one another.

 

One thing that I would caution, however, is that sometimes perceived truths completely trump reality. That is to say, if you adhere completely to 'reality,' you will end up with a system that will at times defy players' intuition, and they will believe something is far-fetched, silly, or even 'unrealistic,' even if it is entirely realistic. I'll give an example: Someone earlier mentioned that it's a myth that rubber tires can save a person if his car is struck by lightning. I read his reason, and it made sense. He seemed to have a realiable source to back up his claims, and I frankly believed him. However, the vast majority of people playing the game will probably still believe that rubber is the best defense against electricity attacks. I'm not picking on electricity per se. It just happens to be one example I remember that *doesn't* revolve around plate being actually lighter and more mobile than people believe. I've never worn plate armor. I have worn chain shirts, and all of them were pretty bulky and fairly heavy.

 

There are two ways I can think of to address the issue.

 

The devs could provide some in game reason to educate the players, such as an expert armorsmith explaining to the PC: "Yar, most o' these ignorant fools think that rubber be the best defense 'gainst lightinin', but really it's having a well grounded metal that moves the current away from the body. Ya savvy?"

 

...Or, and this example is just as viable, they could simply use the intuitive and widely believed erroneous assumption. Sure, they'll have to deal with a vocal minority who will come just to raise hell, but I don't think that's a big deal.

 

Whichever they use, they have to create a system the widest majority of players find believable *and* enjoyable. That system will, in order to accomodate the two vital requirements, at times fail to be realistic.

 

EDIT:...

Edited November 2, 2012 by Cantousent

[rjshae]

This is kind of off-topic, but please, less endgame reliance on ridiculously over-enchanted items! Weapon/armor statistics should be complex enough in and of themselves that you don't need every piece of equipment to have multiple enchantments to be competitive. Enchantments should be rarer and therefore more valuable, no more throwing away enchanted items that are comparatively crappy!

You mean, don't make it like the Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale series end games? Or something else?

It was more a bit of paranoia creeping in that things would go the route of most MMO's lately (including DnD Online) in that for most of the game one is progressing through various tiers of magically enchanted items that could easily be farmed. Enchanted items in my opinion should be the endgame; they shouldn't be commonplace junk. It's all summed up in the fact that running around with magical gear just doesn't feel magical in many RPGs, since it's so mundane. I'm big on mechanics that are interesting enough to function without magic and enchantments; they've already said the setting is low-magic in terms of healing, so maybe that's a good sign. I just think that modern RPGs have just generally become saturated with enchanted items, such that you're behind the curve if you don't have one by level 3, and I don't like it.

Thanks for the clarification. I can relate to your viewpoint, and the economics of enchanted items doesn't make much sense in most cRPGs.

 

From another perspective though, a scarcity of enchanted items for the general population doesn't necessarily equate to magic impoverishment for the party. In a medieval society, potent and costly magical items are likely to gravitate toward the wealthy and powerful, who, through quests, are also frequent targets of the party's activities. Thus one might expect that the party would be much more likely to accrue enchanted items than most.

 

Where the presence of plentiful enchanted may make less sense (to me at least) is with a street vendor who is somehow selling expensive magical goods to the locals. Most of the ordinary population in a medieval society can't even afford decent armor, so how would they ever get their hands on a powerful magic item costing tens of thousands of gold pieces? Such items would be held close to hand by the rich and the nobility, so purchasing these goods should be difficult. Perhaps it requires an exclusive agent to handle rare goods, in exchange for a hefty deposit?

 

Anyway, my 2cp worth.

Edited November 2, 2012 by rjshae

[Diotisalvi]

May I add that good mail, like hammered flat rings with rivets, weights less than half of a simply low quality mail, and has a lot greater protection. But a good new mail was generally ten or twenty time more costly. I don't have the documents right now, but I think that a normal bascinet was about equal to yearly total pay of a good apprentice, in medieval Milan... ok, not really important, I just like to talk.

[Hassat Hunter]

I didn't actually read all 13 pages (bit too much, and might affect my opinion, which I don't want).

 

First off; making light and heavy equal would be stupid. Why would anyone wear heavy if light gives the same defensive boosts? They wouldn't. And you've ruined medium and heavy.

So, yes, medium and heavy should be more powerful.

The tradeoff could be with things people mentioned like speed (combat though, not movement, as a party going out-of-sync exploring is just bad for gameplay), sacrificing upgrades (with about 12 levels spending 2 "feats" (for lack of a better word) on gaining heavy armor is a heavy impact, which should have it's reward)

Light and heavy would still be viable for those not using these feats. Medium might even be free for fighters at the start to start it off as 'good armor'.

 

The individual armors inside a tier shouldn't just be 'one better than the other' but more varied. All could have the same defense, but one makes you faster, the other you slightly harder to kill (damage reduction), one might give you a bigger capacity for loot (good for the packrats), while the 4th just simply gives 1 more defense without any other fancy boosts if you want so. So all armors remain viable for whatever purpose you made your character to be. Tank? Pick the armor. Rapid attack? Pick the quicker attack bonus. Thoughness? Pick the damage reduction armor. And once you find better armors of the same type or a different you have to make the choice. Do I keep the damage reduction while that is a better packrat armor? Or wear it. And that for your whole party.

 

Another could be skills designed for those classes. The battlemage in heavy armor might cast only highly powerful, but slow spells, which make it likely he's hit, but once the spells off, it's armageddon upon the enemy. Or the quick nimble caster annoying enemies with low damage quick castings of magic missile. Same for the fighter. The heavy armor fighter might get skills aimed to soak up as much damage as possible or get increased defense for a lowered offense (as IWD2 had too). The light armored fighter could sacrifice armor for more damage or get a rapid attack which decreases damage and adds a greater risk to miss at greatly increased attack speed.

 

So much that can be done with it.

 

For the "+1" issue my solution would be;

* There will be just 'main armors'. All upgrades to the base are UNIQUE. That means, no dozen of +1. But that increase by a slight amount could be the Druid of Anna'hur's leather armor, or the Former Fighter Guild Owner of Gruggot leather armor. Both +1. But neither called such. They could be the same. But better, they would be slightly different. And of course the first is found at the Druid mentioned, the second with the Fighter mentioned etc.

Of course creating multiple different items instead of a +1 and just giving it to people everywhere might severly increase the amount of items that need to be created, and I am not sure how viable that would be in a project the current size.

 

However it would IMO greatly increase the feel of progression or actual gain if you find such an unique item rather than just a +1 item. And with such a low level limit it would make sense most opponents still use base gear anyway, instead of fully duped magical gear. It could also make magical gear more rare, since these upgrades aren't all magical but just armors improved by it's unique owners to their own wishes, not particularly to magical means. Making finding actual magical gear more magical later on too.

 

And please, no randommised items like Diablo, Torchligt or Borderlands. Handcrafted only!

[Cykoth]

Well,

I very much enjoyed the Halloween themed video! These project updates really make me glad I was a Kickstarter member.

 

On to the Armor topic.....I think some science background might help with reasons to wear different types of armor. I'm assuming that there will be various types of elemental damage in the game. Fire, Ice, Electrical, Poison, Acid that sort of thing. I think persons in heavy plate armor would be at a severe disadvantage to the conductivity of metal. Heat, cold, electricity: those things could affect the wearer in more adverse ways. It could be assumed that natural armors (especially certain hide armors) would lend more insulative effects, or at least the possibility thereof. While the converse could be thought of for permeable types of damage like poison and acid. Heavy plate armors would not be microscopically porous like natural "skin" types of armors. Damage types that were say lipid soluble would be quite harmful to wearers of leathers.

 

Just some thoughts to throw around. Whatever is in the game, just have it make SENSE. The game mechanics are very important, but give me real world reasons and in game lore/traditions for what I might want to wear to protect my precious innards!

 

Cyk

[aVENGER]

On to the Armor topic.....I think some science background might help with reasons to wear different types of armor. I'm assuming that there will be various types of elemental damage in the game. Fire, Ice, Electrical, Poison, Acid that sort of thing. I think persons in heavy plate armor would be at a severe disadvantage to the conductivity of metal.

 

I like this approach, it makes each armor type feel unique.

 

Something similar has already been seen in Arcanum and Fallout. For example, Arcanum's plate armors caused the wearer to suffer more damage from electrical attacks while Fallout's metal and Tesla armors were better at deflecting laser beams than most other armor types.

[rjshae]

On to the Armor topic.....I think some science background might help with reasons to wear different types of armor. I'm assuming that there will be various types of elemental damage in the game. Fire, Ice, Electrical, Poison, Acid that sort of thing. I think persons in heavy plate armor would be at a severe disadvantage to the conductivity of metal.

 

I like this approach, it makes each armor type feel unique.

 

Something similar has already been seen in Arcanum and Fallout. For example, Arcanum's plate armors caused the wearer to suffer more damage from electrical attacks while Fallout's metal and Tesla armors were better at deflecting laser beams than most other armor types.

Scientifically that's backwards. The better conductivity of metal armor would cause electrical attacks to channel around the wearer and into the ground.

 

http://jockohomo.tum...h-voltage-tesla

 

Heat and cold would be a problem though; they should just go right through to the inner padding.

Edited November 3, 2012 by rjshae

[Methuseleh]

How about a condition for armor: unfitted vs. fitted. Unfitted causes some relatively minor, but annoying inconvenience while fitted is normal. Any armorer can change the condition to fitted.

[aVENGER]

Scientifically that's backwards. The better conductivity of metal armor would cause electrical attacks to channel around the wearer and into the ground.

 

That's true in case of a full body suit. But wearing only one piece of metal armor (i.e. a breastplate) or multiple non-connected pieces would probably have an adverse effect.

 

In any case, it would be nice if different armor types provided different bonuses/penalties vs. certain damage types instead of having heavy armor being automatically better than light armor in all aspects.

[Grand_Commander13]

That armor is padded, but I don't see how wearing the armor could possibly be worse than being unarmored; your skin is going to have the same resistance either way.

 

Anyway, are there any Infinity Engine games or Obsidian games where heavier armor isn't better than lighter armor? All I can think of is Alpha Protocol, where people who needed to be stealthy would use the lighter armor, and the D&D 3E games where rather than getting the best AC from your armor you would aim for the best AC from your combined armor and dexterity.

[Nietsewitch]

I actually would like a charactersystem where the abilities of a charakter is not shaped from the beginning, but it should develop over time.

 

I mean when you become eighteen you have some amount of intelligenz, you have some amount of strength, but a lot you do develop over time doing exercise.

 

Meaning that every character you create in the beginning is basically the same. (some small differences should be there, becouse not all peoples are the same)

 

But that would solve some issues about what a charakters could cary or not (Armours or Weapons).

 

Imagine your Fighter has strength of 10 on level one. You could carry a short sword and leather armour for example, and then two levels later when he is stronger and has a strength of 12 he could wear a studded leatherarmour and normal sword.

and so on...

 

Dont get me wrong, i dont want a system like in the most action rpg, where you have 10 strength at the start and 300000000 strength in the end. That would be unrealistic and stupid.

 

But you decide in the beginning what your characters wish of profession is, so some abilitys will be added in some amount over time automatically, some you will be able to distribute yourself to make the prefered specialisation of your version of character.

 

Nietse

[mcmanusaur]

How about a condition for armor: unfitted vs. fitted. Unfitted causes some relatively minor, but annoying inconvenience while fitted is normal. Any armorer can change the condition to fitted.

 

Chafing penalties?

[Exediron]

I haven't been very (well, at all) active as of yet, but this topic interested me enough that I felt I'd weigh in. Mechanics and realism are subjects of interest to me. I may go on a bit long, so skip to the end for the conclusion if you just want my proposal.

 

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The way I see it, there's 3 main objectives any successful armor system must achieve:

• Functional diversity
  
• Realism (I will not say verisimilitude, because it is a word that I cannot stand)
  
• An acceptable level of balance between types
  

These are all tied in with each other, and unfortunately are somewhat opposed to each other.

 

Functional Diversity: This means having real differences between armor types, not merely cosmetic (although cosmetic differences are important, too!). In many systems (including D&D in large part) there is a single statistic that determines everything about a piece of armor, often known as Armor Class or something similar. Chain mail and Plate Mail aren't any different - chain mail is just worse.

 

Realism: This isn't the same thing as historical accuracy. Realism in this context can be thought of more as reasonableness or even just adherence to logic. An example of an obvious failure of realism is D&D 3rd edition, where a mace and a katana have the same effect on a suit of chain mail (actually, in D&D the katana would have more effect).

 

Acceptable Balance: This is the one that doesn't play nicely with the other two. The real world of course isn't balanced, and too much focus on balance can easily destroy diversity. But it doesn't have to...

 

I believe that the core issue with most armor systems is their basic approach - a single unified armor class statistic. Yes, it's easy to use, but that argument doesn't hold nearly so much weight in a computer game - the player only needs to understand that their armor is better against slashing weapons than against bludgeoning weapons without having to look it up on a table (the computer can do that, and it doesn't mind).

 

For example, let's examine a popular type of armor: the chainmail huabark. In most systems, chainmail occupies a spot in the mid-range of armor. But chainmail is notoriously unequal in its protection; nearly sovereign against slashing attacks, unhelpful against bludgeoning attacks and anywhere from unhelpful to actually harmful (depending on who you believe) against piercing attacks. You can't accurately reflect this relationship with a single number, however it might be structured.

 

As a side note, a system such as this also helps weapon type viability and diversity - worried that the mace isn't very good compared to the katana? Try them both on a properly armored target, and it's the katana that will only produce a few nicked links of metal. Such an interaction between weapons and armor introduces a myriad of tactical options, makes armor choice more than a matter of picking a single number and at the same time enhances weapon diversity.

 

Another important element of armor is fatigue and mobility. Although as is oft mentioned the medieval knight could indeed do cartwheels in his full plate, knights also suffocated to death on the field from fatigue and their own heat exhaustion (I'm not saying that should happen to players, although it would be hilarious on hardcore mode ).

 

One easy solution to this would be some sort of fatigue stat, which as it adds up makes the character less and less effective - so the knight in full plate armor might begin the battle untouchable and just as spry as the swashbuckler, but after five minutes of solid battle the knight could barely swing his sword while the swashbuckler would be just as quick as ever. Heavier armors would accelerate the accumulation of fatigue.

 

The final factor I think is important to armor balance is cost. This was the real limiting factor in the years of plate mail - nobody except for a nobleman could afford the stuff, it had to be custom-fitted and it took forever to make. The cost I think should be sharply additive for higher armor complexities; platemail shouldn't cost twice a suit of chain, it should cost ten times and take a month to make. Realistically, it should also be custom-fitted to a certain character and require an armorsmith to refit, although with a crafting system that would be a lot less of a restriction.

 

Another thing that seems sort-of on topic but I wasn't sure where to put is shields: Shields aren't useless for crying out loud - they're the single best piece of protection you can carry! The rules should reflect that. In D&D, carrying a shield earns you a well-deserved mocking.

 

Conclusion (Armor Balance): The most important component to making armor diverse, realistic and maintaining the viability of lighter armor types is to make armor react realistically to different attack forms. Factors such as fatigue and mobility are also important. In essence, if a real-world reason for preferring a different armor type isn't supported by the rules, they're probably doing something wrong. Realistic and reactive armor also increases weapon viability and diversity, while keeping certain weapon types from outshining others when they shouldn't.

 

As to the question of armor type advancement (Purified Steel Cuirass or Breastplate +1?) I would be inclined to say use both, but sparingly. In a world where magic is rare I think it's important to have the ability to differentiate between armor without needing it to be magical, which a D&D based system isn't really designed to do.

 

There are, however, two big problems I see with a material-based system:

• Complete obsolescence of lower tiered materials when better materials become available
  
• Possible disconnect between rules and reality
  

I'll start with the second, as it's quicker to explain:

 

Rules and Reality: What I mean by this is situations like are found in Dragon Age - the best weapons are Volcanic Aurum, and so your weapon (expressly crafted from the bones of a dragon) is somehow made of Volcanic Aurum to fit the tier system. It doesn't make any sense, and it's jarring.

 

Keeping All Materials Relevant: My proposal for keeping materials relevant is related to my main armor proposal; instead of a linear bonus, make the material have an effect on the properties of the armor. To use two common fantasy examples, Mithril armor could be lighter (Less fatiguing) and more responsive to speed enchantments while Adamantine could be harder (Breaks less easily? Needs less maintenance? More resistant to piercing attacks) and more difficult to enchant. That part of the idea is still in its infancy, but I think it has some real promise.

 

In addition to materials and magic, I think the skill of the craftsman who made the armor should be important - but not too important. The masterwork system of D&D doesn't really get the job done (too insignificant), but something along that idea, or maybe the fine weapons of Icewind Dale I.

 

Conclusion - Part II (Armor Materials & Style): I think materials should be the main differentiating factor between armors of the same type, followed by craftsman skill. Materials should not give linear bonuses, but instead offer particular advantages and affinity or resistance to certain types of enchantments. I do think that armor appearance and armor ability should be closely tied - I'm always annoyed when I find max'd heavy armor only to discover that it actually only covers half of my character's torso, or when the armor that looks like it offers the best protection actually sucks.

 

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I hope that came out reasonably coherently . If I get time I might post a better summary or some follow-up ideas.

 

[EDIT] Ooh, I almost forgot!

 

What does 'Armor' mean in a game?: I strongly support a system where Armor and Defense (or whatever you want to call them) are not the same thing. Armor absorbs hits and prevents weapons from damaging a person (much like Damage Reduction) - Defense prevents hits from connecting in the first place (much as Armor Class operates in D&D). I think having a divide between these two also helps to make different fighting styles viable; yes, the warrior in a breastplate might not be as well armored as the one in full plate, but he relies on mobility and chose his armor to provide a strong protection against missiles.

 

As with many of my earlier points (and the whole concept, in fact), this also applies to weapons. Some weapons are more precise and easily controlled or threaten a larger area and therefore hit more easily, but that doesn't necessarily make them any good at armor penetration. The reverse is also true.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Exediron

[Somna]

Well, with implementing armor, you're eventually going to have to affect the combat system one way or another, in order to get it to work. Many games do this with multiple checks, instead of just one "AC" check. So to sort of condense what you're saying:

 

One example that could apply here is a "To Hit" check, then a "To Penetrate" check, then a final check on how much damage got mitigated. You could have the stronger, more durable armors penalize the "To Hit" check while having a high bonus on the "To Penetrate" check and the DR check.

 

So then, to apply what they've told us about firearms being able to overcome magic barriers to this kind of system to follow through on the example, you could say the firearms completely bypass the "To Penetrate" check and that magic barriers do not have DR. That leaves the result of the durable armor wearers still not taking much damage from a firearm compared to mages relying on magic barriers.

 

The material-based system isn't talking about things like the Dragon Age style of equipment, where one material was clearly better. Here's the listing of "special materials" from D&D. Here's also a Pathfinder version, just to show you how crazy you can get with the special material stuff. Upgrading the armor a tier is more about making the armor a better kind of armor, like Breastplate -> Platemail -> Field Plate. Changing the material is more because you want the benefits of one material over another, not necessarily because one is clearly better than the other.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Somna

[Atreides]

My 2 gp on armour mechanics: A combination of avoidance and damage resistance

• Someone in heavy armour may get hit a lot because of its penalties to movement, but will have good damage resistance.
  
• Someone in light armour would have better chances to avoid hits, but less damage resistance.
  

Average damage taken could work out to be the same, but light armour suggests more variance. Adding critical hits that ignore damage reduction may spice things up further.

 

We may see a fair distribution of armour chosen, even into the late game, by adding considerations like bonuses/penalties to endurance and skills.

[Nietsewitch]

A good idea would be also, that if you are in light armour you can not be hit so easily becouse of the reason that you can evade much faster, but this bonus beeing decreased when fighting against more than one opponent and further if you fighting against five opponents it should be decreased significantly.

 

Further when you fight in heavy armour it should have not so much effect when you are surrounded by more then one opponent becouse of your heavy armour will not allow you to much mobility at all. But therefor beeing a heavy armour it will prevent you from to much damage.

 

And i am also have the opinion of "Exediron" that shilds should play a much more significant role in there, becouse of beeing the main instrument of avoiding damage in midieval times.

[Dawn_]

If it use a stamina system like they said.

 

They could simply make wearing armor decreasing your stamina;

 

For example, You have 100 of stamina wearing an heavy armor would take 20 of them you'll then have only 80 Stamina to use techniques, etc.

On the contrary light armor would only be 5 stamina.

[Hassat Hunter]

That's... not how stamina works :/

 

I think the naming makes many people confused about it's purpose. I can understand that though, with how stamina usually works in games.

[Dawn_]

That's... not how stamina works :/

 

I think the naming makes many people confused about it's purpose. I can understand that though, with how stamina usually works in games.

 

Clear to specify how it works..then ? Because your answer doesn't enlight me.

[rjshae]

My understanding is that plate armor was particularly effective against slashing weapons such as the scimitar, but less so against impacting weapons such as the war hammer. Impacts would transmit their energy through the solid plate and hence needed to be absorbed by the padding underneath. This could perhaps be modeled by a bleeding wounds system: penetrating weapons inflict lower amounts of base damage but cause bleeding wounds that last for several combat rounds. Softer light armor can then be at least as good, if not better at absorbing impact damage as plate armor, but it is easier to penetrate this armor and cause bleeding wounds. Medium-type armor can represent a compromise between the two: decent armor that is good, but not excellent, at absorbing both penetrating and impact damage. Having separate classes of penetrating and impacting weapons results in a rock-paper-scissors system of weapons vs. armor.

 

Using a fully-developed bleeding wounds system gives the player an additional factor to be concerned about during combat. The player can sweat bullets as the stamina of the wounded front line fighter continues to drop for an uncertain number of rounds, making healing that character more of a priority. The wounded fighter may need to switch to defensive mode for several rounds while waiting for the healing magic to come.

Edited November 4, 2012 by rjshae

[Grand_Commander13]

Clear to specify how it works..then ? Because your answer doesn't enlight me.

Stamina are basically HP that regenerate on their own at the end of a fight and can be magically restored. A faction of your life is lost as Health with each hit, the rest as Stamina. Health is there so that you still need to watch how much damage you take over time, but because the Stamina regenerates relatively quickly each fight can be a lot tougher without forcing you to do only one tough fight in between rests.

 

I don't think heavy armor makes sense if it cuts your evasion down so much that the average damage taken isn't noticeably lower with it. Exediron had a lot of good ideas though: I've been advocating for a sort of fatigue system to go with the armor (and the heavier weapons), and we could link that to some kind of endurance attribute, maybe even a physical conditioning combat skill as well. To make hammers and maces better armor crackers you can give them separate DR versus cutting, piercing, and bludgeoning damage without it being cumbersome at all in play (thank you, computers!).

 

I don't think that, historically, plate was more expensive than chain though. If anything the chain was more expensive, because it took so long to make. If your plate armor is taking as long as chain to make then you're getting a very, very high-grade suit made just for you. In the Renaissance you'll notice that when equipping their fighting men they made cheap cuirasses for them rather than chain shirts.

[Brasidas]

Josh has highlighted how different armor types will allow for interesting character choices within each class; I would like armor advances to offer this same level of interest. While this may have been hinted at with his goal of, "Introducing new or upgraded armor types throughout the game instead of using ++ versions," it's worth making explicit what this means. A ++ upgrade is disappointing because it offers no new way of playing a character-- it simply allows them to engage more difficult monsters. By contrast, when the upgrade includes life steal, blink, or temporary damage reduction, the character has new, game changing options that shift their entire build. Nor must the upgrade be as dramatic as a new ability. It could alter movement, hit points, fatigue, or some other such statistics in a way that allows for different tactical options as well. The bottom line is that the focus of upgrades shouldn't be on increasing statistics for their own sake, but instead should be on either modifying statistics in ways that create new tactical options or adding new abilities create new tactical options.

[IvanD]

repost

 

What about composite armor, like in Ultima Online or Siege of Avalon, or maybe Morrowind? I mean that in all of those games you do not wear armor on naked body, in UO you can wear leather/cloth stuff under you armor. In Avalon there even more realistic system, you can wear chain armor under you plate armor.

 

 

Also it will be awesome if you add ability to wear robes, cloaks, tunics over you armor. They can add some additional bonuses or just used for social features. For example, if you want to tell everyone that you are member of some guild/fraction you can wear surcoat with heraldic of your fraction, and npc's will react you as a member of whateveryouwant. Also it will help you to recognize allies and enemies.

 

 

Also, it is very interesting how you will divide armor items. Will it be "classic five": helmet, gloves, chest, boots and belt. Or it will be more progressive, like morrowind one.

 

 

 

I think that freedom of combinations is much better and interesting than standard sets created by developers.

 

What you think about this?