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I'm interested in update about druids... I mean, I wonder how they magic will work. Connecting souls with nature? Or... Will nature have it own soul or something? :p Heh, thanks to this concept of souls everything is different in PE world, I like it.

 

Well, they do apparently have all the characters classes basically plotted out until level 5 or so, so I wouldn't say no to a Month of Character Classes Updates (including Druids).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sounds like a bad move to give the planet a soul. You might as well give rocks a soul.

 

Possibly having a god (or gods) around to basically be Mother Nature might be a better idea.

Insects have hiveminds. It's not terribly infeasible that nature might not have some kind of over-arching life force/"will."

 

Plants have always been kind of like biological robots, while people are like biological AIs.

 

It's not necessarily automatically the best idea ever or anything, but I think it's equally as likely to be a good idea as it is to be a bad one.

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I would like druids spells to have a unique niche thats different from clerical supportive spells or wizardly damage spells. Perhaps mostly utility spells like engtangle.

Edited by Sheikh
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I would like druids spells to have a unique niche thats different from clerical supportive spells or wizardly damage spells. Perhaps mostly utility spells like engtangle.

 

 

This post contains a post from Sawyer that states "Currently, spells are entirely unique to each class." Its unlinked so I don't know where it originated or if its true.

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I would like druids spells to have a unique niche thats different from clerical supportive spells or wizardly damage spells. Perhaps mostly utility spells like engtangle.

 

 

This post contains a post from Sawyer that states "Currently, spells are entirely unique to each class." Its unlinked so I don't know where it originated or if its true.

 

The post is from 31 May. Here is the source.

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I would like druids spells to have a unique niche thats different from clerical supportive spells or wizardly damage spells. Perhaps mostly utility spells like engtangle.

 

 

This post contains a post from Sawyer that states "Currently, spells are entirely unique to each class." Its unlinked so I don't know where it originated or if its true.

 

Thats pretty cool, I hope its not like wizard can cast a fireball and druid can cast a meteor with both doing more or less the same thing.

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Thats pretty cool, I hope its not like wizard can cast a fireball and druid can cast a meteor with both doing more or less the same thing.

That may be a little tougher to pull off. In that example, I could easily see both spells resulting in say 6D6 fire damage, but having a different visual spell effect.

 

I kind of share the same concern over Ciphers. How do you uniquely represent their capabilities? Lets say there is a spell called Mind Spike. Is it just going to be a renamed Hold Person? I don't envy the developers trying to come up with unique capabilities.

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Thats pretty cool, I hope its not like wizard can cast a fireball and druid can cast a meteor with both doing more or less the same thing.

That may be a little tougher to pull off. In that example, I could easily see both spells resulting in say 6D6 fire damage, but having a different visual spell effect.

 

I kind of share the same concern over Ciphers. How do you uniquely represent their capabilities? Lets say there is a spell called Mind Spike. Is it just going to be a renamed Hold Person? I don't envy the developers trying to come up with unique capabilities.

 

Basically if they had 2 spells that do something similar or very similar, but describe them creatively that they achieve this in very different ways it would be good enough. In other words window dressing would be of good use in this case.

 

But what I originally wanted to say was that there was no clear or distinctive gameplay theme to druid spells in the infinity engine games that I have played leaving druids a little bland on that part.

Edited by Sheikh
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It's actually not all THAT difficult to not have a bunch of same spells with flavor differences. Lots of work? Sure. As with anything in quality game development.

 

But, you can make a simple change and have 2 different spells. Example:

 

Wizard -- Fireball: Launches a concentrated orb of flame at the target/location, exploding on impact.

 

Druid -- Pheonix Fire: Conjures a Pheonix spirit to attack up to 3 specified targets in sequence, striking anyone in its path between the targets.

 

Boom, there's 2 AOE/multi-target fire spells for you that act in completely different fashions. There's no reason both a Wizard AND a Druid NEED to have a spell that fires a flamey projectile at a target, then deals radial fire damage.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I have always been a fan of druids, not for the balance of nature or equaling out of forces which is impossible to portray, but because I love the thought that their power comes from life assisting their will. I really like the thought that a druid can with a couple snips of flowers ground up in earth and root you have a concoction to cure illness. That they can will the earth to let rain fall on a drought riddled landscape. Or for practical purposes, they ask the trees to caputure their enemies with roots, summon a bee swarm to assail the enemy.

 

Previously one of the posters mentioned that they should have inherant area bonuses and detriments to those nearby. I really like this idea. I'd also like them to be crafter's of potions good or bad so they're more akin to herbalists and combat controllers than a shape shifting bear that is always second rate to the ranger and fighter.

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^ That got me thinking:

 

It might be cool if, in heavily nature-y areas, a Druid provided a sort of aura-like proximity bonus to sureness of foot, etc. Maybe their presence coaxes the foliage and such in their vicinity to contribute to a lack of tripping and an ease of movement. 8P

 

Positional-tactical bonuses, FTW!

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Hmm. I suppose I wouldn't mind characters getting a small, passive boost when they're in their ideal environment, but I guess it'd be hard to balance. I mean, what if you were to play a necromancer who gets bonuses in graveyards and the only graveyard in the entire game was in a brief section in the tutorial?

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Druids should get their bonuses everywhere besides foreign planescapes or bewitched/unholy ground. I like the thought of Druids b(e)eing controllers of all surroundings that bear the essence of life. This includes raising barrages of wood/stone, stalagtite-rain, spikes and thorns, walking on/splitting water.

 

In comparison a necromancer would get huge bonuses in graveyards/mausoleums or places where death is deep woven into: Ther you'd gain the ability to raise bone-barrages and other Dead stuff (I like Diablo 2 for its view on necromancy) and bonuses on the quantity of raised dead things. But: Are necromancers even announced yet?

 

Would be fun to have the possibility for Druids to either have life or death as power source... Both are one side of the coin called equilibrium :D

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I'd like to 2nd/3rd the post about class-updates (but only if it doesn't really take time away from actually making the classes)

Druids with their own unique spell-lists sounds great - makes the class unique.

The idea of a Spirit-Quest as a personal quest is good too (maybe you'd need to collect the right ingredients for the 'dream-smoke' or something to initiate it.

 

Not sure the planet needs a soul as such but it doesn't need to be as specific as a 'druid deity' - a general balancing force of nature might work that the druid can tap into.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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I would personally like to see Druids not gain all their abilities as they level, but have to find herbs in the wild in order to unlock specific abilities, much like how it is hinted the Mage will have to find some spells in the world.

That sounds good - at least for some spells/abilities.

Do you envisage these herbs/whatever as ingredients (i.e. needing to collect new ones to make a new 'vine of stinging constriction') or as 'mutagenics' that unlock abilities once and then can be used?  (Or a combination of the 2?)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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I would personally like to see Druids not gain all their abilities as they level, but have to find herbs in the wild in order to unlock specific abilities, much like how it is hinted the Mage will have to find some spells in the world.

That sounds good - at least for some spells/abilities.

Do you envisage these herbs/whatever as ingredients (i.e. needing to collect new ones to make a new 'vine of stinging constriction') or as 'mutagenics' that unlock abilities once and then can be used?  (Or a combination of the 2?)

 

The latter, would probably be too annoying to have to collect herbs everytime your druid wanted to cast a "spell" or whatever they do.

 

I just think it would be cool to add a bit of flavor to the classes so they seem more unique, Druids are close to nature so herbs I guess.

 

They could spruce up all the classes this way too, Chanters sound like the most social class so perhaps going to a tavern and drinking with some dwarves and they teach you their great dwarven Chants, and bam it adds a new phrase or whatever to your Chanter. And perhaps for Mages a few high-level spells might be rare so you have to find the spell (as a scroll or whatever), locked away in some old man's study, or in a dungeon or something. Of course I mean if PE Mages are like D&D Mages in that their magical ability comes not from in themselves but from reading spells from a book.

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I'd agree with that - sounds like a good way to connect the world and the classes.

 

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On an unrelated note:

 

'Spirit-shifting' (aka shape-shifting) - needs viable alternatives for the shapes (balanced as per other classes).

In BG, the standard forms were Brown-bear / Black bear or Wolf - wolf was faster but had no real advantages to make it worth using and the 2 bears were pretty much the same, giving a strength bonus for combat.

 

So instead, I'd like to see useful alternatives - taking too much damage? shift to armadillo (high defense but low attack) - need to avoid traps? shift to squirrel (weak but avoids setting off traps?) - not the best examples, I grant you.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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I'd agree with that - sounds like a good way to connect the world and the classes.

 

---

 

On an unrelated note:

 

'Spirit-shifting' (aka shape-shifting) - needs viable alternatives for the shapes (balanced as per other classes).

In BG, the standard forms were Brown-bear / Black bear or Wolf - wolf was faster but had no real advantages to make it worth using and the 2 bears were pretty much the same, giving a strength bonus for combat.

 

So instead, I'd like to see useful alternatives - taking too much damage? shift to armadillo (high defense but low attack) - need to avoid traps? shift to squirrel (weak but avoids setting off traps?) - not the best examples, I grant you.

No it sounds like a good kind of track; exotic animal forms with unique, useful abilities/intrinsic stat changes. It is what a lot of us want with shape changing. Icewind Dale 2 and the NWN series also expanded on the repertoire but the implementation needed some work; the shifter prestige class was extremely OP late game. Dragon form while fun was just too powerful. Similarly Elemental Form in BG2:TOB. Large variety isn't what we should want but a moderate amount of well balanced forms that are useful the entire game. Ideally these are influenced by the character's stats rather than completely separate.   

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Guess I should've read the whole thread before posting (but I was short of time - reading through now)

 

Mechanically I think it would be interesting if druids would "plant" themselves and then have an area around them they could affect (maybe growing larger with levels), only being able to reach out of this with a "possessed" animal (companion?) or something. He would use heavy personal defensive spells and act as a (terrain) controller. The spells would require no verbal or somatic components, making movement/speech impairing stuff non-effective. This may be over-complicating, but it would be interesting if the spell effects would be slightly different during day and night, reinforcing a bit the natural connection flavor.\

I liked all your ideas but this one especially - would make the druids more unique.  If they're near a river, they could plant themselves at the banks and use the force of the river or throw the water at enemies.  If there's enough water in the air then they could bring  a shrouding fog.

 

 

Couple more Druid ideas.


Camouflage while Resting

Depending on how they implement the "Resting" function in P:E, if you have a druid or ranger in your party while resting in wilderness areas, what if being interrupted by wandering monsters has a reduced chance? Possibly by an amount that scales with character level? Could make a Wilderness Lore skill check, or apply a scaling luck modifier to the die roll (even though it's not strictly luck, but a natural talent for remaining unseen in natural surroundings).

 This is a great idea that works well with the concept of druids and extends their usefulness outside of combat

 

 

Shapeshifting (for PE druids, it's called Spiritshift) allows druids to turn into anthropomorphized forms, with abilities that are more inspired by the emulated creature rather than literally transforming the druid into that creature.   Druids will always be allowed to continue spellcasting while spiritshifted.  We definitely want it to be an ability you want to use often.

 

Ok, this sounds like a good approach - but don't forget to make each choice tactical, not a no-brainer 'bear-shift is best' :)

 

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out of time - tbc

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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Picking up on the spirit-shifting side - if it's not going to be a full animal transformation (and I do like the partial transformation idea) - perhaps it could be represented by an aura (semi-transparent floating Wolfness) rather than needing all new models.  Just thinking out loud.

 

 

 

It would also be interesting from a roleplay perspective; I can already imagine using an animal form as a means of intimidation or even simply causing confusion as strangers intrude on a conflict.

 

NPC reactions could be interesting, but in my limited experience people tend to just attack on sight when you're in beast form.

 

Maybe in areas with lots of Druids NPCs won't raise an eyebrow when a spiritshifted druid wanders into town, but in more urban areas the guards may react somewhat nervously or aggressively to the clawed animal walking about.

It would be cool if there were some kind of reaction to your shape-shifted form.  Would probably take too much time to code different reactions to different forms but a general 'Is it a monster?' kind of reaction would be good.

 

 

Also liking the idea of some kind of 'plant' hybrid form - perhaps rooting himself for resistance to knockdowns or drawing up nutrients from the ground to heal.

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_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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Shape shifting just strikes me as an unutilized element in the majority of games from a roleplay perspective, unless it is a default for every character (Divinity 2, NWN:SOU). It would add just a little bit of spice to have it turn up infrequently as a viable option in dialogue or in solving some puzzle/mystery event. It just tends to exist as an afterthought ... a strategic thing and nothing more. Examples: IWD, BG series, DA:O etc. I enjoy it as a tactical thing but often feel it just deserves a little more inclusion. The only time I can even recall a shape shifting druid in an IE game as a character (outside of the available companions/MC/party) is that duel with Faldorn in BG2 (yes, I know she was a companion in BG1; that is my point). I'd like to see it occur occasionally in combat with opponent druids.

 

I'd like to see it occur in game occasionally without violence involved. After all the senses/natural advantages of an animal form can often be far superior to human (or equivalent) eg. the eyes of a hawk (telescopic vision), sense of smell (wolf/canine), hearing (bat), touch/vibration (spider), agility (fox/cat), etc. Even exotic senses that only a few specialized creatures possess; heat sense (python/rattlesnake/viper), echo-location (bat/dolphin/whale), internal compass i.e. magnetic sense (pidgeon/various migratory birds) etc.

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+1, @GreyDragon.

 

As an aside, one of the few bits I thoroughly enjoyed in Dragon Age was the Fade episode, which was pretty much built around shapeshifting. It was rudimentary and simple, but I thought it showed what kind of gameplay potential shapeshifting mechanics could have, if properly fleshed-out and developed.

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+1, @GreyDragon.

 

As an aside, one of the few bits I thoroughly enjoyed in Dragon Age was the Fade episode, which was pretty much built around shapeshifting. It was rudimentary and simple, but I thought it showed what kind of gameplay potential shapeshifting mechanics could have, if properly fleshed-out and developed.

I forgot that part; it was quite fun the first run through and solving puzzles with the new forms was a nice touch ... a little stale and for me apparently, quite forgettable. File it under the earlier category of 'shapeshifting as a story element for all or none'. Something to remember, improve upon and hopefully mesh with other class specific elements. I guess the point of choosing druid if every class can change forms at will in certain scenarios is to allow the druid to use it in a wider, more interesting variety of events.

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