Oversexualization of females in video games

[Heresiarch]

Boob plates are probably the least unrealistic thing in most fantasy games. If boob plates truly put even a dent in someone's "immersion" then the rest of the stuff in fantasy games should rip that immersion to shreds. The fact of the matter is that the whole "realism" argument is just a smokescreen for a bunch of white knights to hide behind.

There is a difference between suspending disbelief for a fire-breathing dragon and doing so for a bunch of poor shacks right inside the city walls, because the second has to do with common sense. No one is going to defend some slums on the outskirts with walls. No one is going to mass produce boob plate armor just to please the male population. It is difficult and prohibitively expensive.

 

For the last time medieval armor with grotesque codpieces and Greek or Roman heroic cuirass is purely ceremonial.

[henofthewoods]

Bimbo-fication of women and rambo-fication of men is just infantile and lazy. It's the most one-dimensional way to create a character and it's really depressing that video games still just heavily rely on those tropes.

 

yall talkin about cod pieces and crying about how men have unrealistic portrayals too and how feminists are comin after you and your precious boobies when in actuality it's just all about taking a medium seriously.

 

And if you can't tell that there's a pretty obvious subtext of shallow sex appeal with someone fighting hand to hand combat in a push-up bra, and claiming it's all about being nimble, you're either super intellectually dishonest or just can't be helped.

 

holy guac

[Streamlock]

 

Do you see how the bumps of the pectoral muscles are extremely minimal towards the center of the chest, and rather only appear towards the edges? Yeah. Like I said. Now compare with how boobplate for women is commonly depicted. See the rather glaring difference?

 

Also, that looks to be gladiator armour, in which case we should keep in mind that it's done for show and spectacle first and foremost.

 

 

 

I will be the 1st to admit the way woman who are supposed to be combat ready are depicted in a boarderline absurd fashion in most visual mediums. Or video games at least-for a variety of reasons.

 

I guess the point I was trying to make was that armor was not always a total abandonment of form in favor of funtion, and having at least some minimilistic accommodations for the human figure (be in male or female) or some minor embelishments is not totally blasphemous. Either in a historical or fictional artistic sense.

 

Note: I'm not historian or ancient warfare expert by any means-from what litle research I was willing to do on the topic the helmet at least was Corinthian . The armor was of the less ordemented type that probably actually saw some service. Gladitorial? I would have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that armor predates the spread of Gladitorial combat that was popularized by the Romans.

[Rostere]

A lot may not know/remember but one of the biggest things that ruined BioWare's games was when they caved in to false propaganda. The "sexbox" bit during a news fragment of "FoxNews" with self proclaimed "experts" which told nothing but blatant lies about Mass Effect led to all following BioWare games containing nothing but clothed sex. That completely ruined the experience of the game for many.

 

I would find it rather refreshing to see a game with nothing but a huge middle finger for all political correctness and touchy feely subjects. A bit extreme but movies have done it.

 

"Oh no, clothed sex scenes"!

 

You know, if you want to play a romance simulator, maybe you should go back to the Bioware boards and discuss this entire issue there instead?

So apparently you've never watched Game of Thrones, which is one of the best, most realistic and most beloved "fantasy" representations altogether.

 

Please spare me... Not the romance crowd again.

 

If you don't see how nudity in Game of Thrones is ridiculous fan service, then I'm afraid there's no hope for you.

 

Game of Thrones is good in many ways, but the over- emphasis on "grimdark" and completely gratuitous nudity is really a letdown. Game of Thrones is basically Twilight for men. You know, if I was in a sarcastic mood, I could probably describe Twilight as "one of the best, most realistic and most beloved "fantasy" representations altogether".

Edited October 23, 2012 by Rostere

[Joukehainen]

Bimbo-fication of women and rambo-fication of men is just infantile and lazy. It's the most one-dimensional way to create a character and it's really depressing that video games still just heavily rely on those tropes.

 

yall talkin about cod pieces and crying about how men have unrealistic portrayals too and how feminists are comin after you and your precious boobies when in actuality it's just all about taking a medium seriously.

 

And if you can't tell that there's a pretty obvious subtext of shallow sex appeal with someone fighting hand to hand combat in a push-up bra, and claiming it's all about being nimble, you're either super intellectually dishonest or just can't be helped.

 

holy guac

 

 

This is the most concise and smartest summary I've seen.

 

/thread

[NerdBoner]

None of you are ever going to convince anyone else on this subject no matter how much "logic" and text walls of China you try to apply to this silly subject...what the hell is wrong with you people?!

 

is it seriously gonna be like this for the next 2 years?

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

Yeah! Come on you guys! What the **** is up with you, expressing OPINIONS on a DISCUSSION FORUM?! We're not here to TALK about things or to type TEXT. Haha, text walls of china. Because words in a post are dumb.

 

Seriously guys writing is dumb.

[Dream]

Boob plates are probably the least unrealistic thing in most fantasy games. If boob plates truly put even a dent in someone's "immersion" then the rest of the stuff in fantasy games should rip that immersion to shreds. The fact of the matter is that the whole "realism" argument is just a smokescreen for a bunch of white knights to hide behind.

There is a difference between suspending disbelief for a fire-breathing dragon and doing so for a bunch of poor shacks right inside the city walls, because the second has to do with common sense. No one is going to defend some slums on the outskirts with walls. No one is going to mass produce boob plate armor just to please the male population. It is difficult and prohibitively expensive.

 

For the last time medieval armor with grotesque codpieces and Greek or Roman heroic cuirass is purely ceremonial.

 

No one is going to wear metal armor of any type when facing a situation involving large amounts of fire. No one is going to sleep off shattered limbs. Hell, if you want things to be realistic then it should be impossible for a female half-elf fighter to be as strong as an a half orc. If you can suspend your disbelief of that then you should very easily be able to suspend your disbelief of a little something like impractical armor.

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

I think everybody should run around with big red clown noses.

 

It's not ridiculous because magic, Q.E.D.

Edited October 23, 2012 by HungryHungryOuroboros

[Elerond]

How about if put this question around

 

What would you say if full plate would look like this on female character,

 

 

 

 

 

but when you put it on you male character it will look like this?

 

 

 

 

 

What you think would that cause uproar among male players?

[Furiku]

Bimbo-fication of women and rambo-fication of men is just infantile and lazy. It's the most one-dimensional way to create a character and it's really depressing that video games still just heavily rely on those tropes.

Homer's works, Herakles, Odysseus, Theseus, Niebelungen, Beowulf, The Argonauts and almost every heroic epos sure all count as infantile and lazy.

 

yall talkin about cod pieces and crying about how men have unrealistic portrayals too and how feminists are comin after you and your precious boobies when in actuality it's just all about taking a medium seriously.

Since everybody knows that it's not actually the DEPICTION of said things without batting ones eyelashes in a mature manner instead of summoning up a hurricane of crap (like say in nude drawings/paintings/statues and movies being able to depict both women and men in the nude with people actually being able to regard those things in company without breaking out in a giggle) e.g. not having stupid taboos that helps a medium be taken seriously over time. Nope, there's not thousands of movies and paintings with nudity and more recently series like Game of Thrones, Rome, The Borgias, Dexter, Mad Men, American Horror Stories. What makes people take a medium seriously is people complaining every single time someone tries to include any nudity or similar thematics that some people don't like and making them taboo or getting them changed/censored.

 

Everybody fill this out: Books are such a great medium because of ______________.

 

Yep, you probably guessed it right, the right answer is because of "censorship and having to appeal to feminists", additionally "book burnings" is also correct.

 

And if you can't tell that there's a pretty obvious subtext of shallow sex appeal with someone fighting hand to hand combat in a push-up bra, and claiming it's all about being nimble, you're either super intellectually dishonest or just can't be helped.

Boy, this sure looked like shallow sex appeal and someone fighting in a push-up bra, you're so right, how couldn't I see it before? It's outright vulgar porn even, fap material!

 

 

People are also constantly complaining about some sort of trench in the middle with concern about her sternum that simply isn't there in that concept art.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Furiku

[Gibbscape_Torment]

Ridiculous, all of you.

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

Ridiculous, all of you.

Wow! You sure were able to show your superiority over everybody!

 

Big thumbs up.

 

 

TWO thumbs up, in fact.

 

I'm just, wow.

 

You're just...so smart.

 

So, so very smart.

[henofthewoods]

furiku-

 

1) Yeah all those folks had more personality than just UGHS IM A MAN I HAVE MUSCLES FEAR MY PENOR KILL EVERYBODNY IM A MAN. All those folks you mentioned were strong and handsome yes, (which aren't bad things) however they also had real human flaws, thus relatable enough to the average person, and were incredibly clever, if not real smart. They all follow a certain archetype, yeah, but they aren't just muscles on legs.

 

No mention on bimbo-fication, which I guess would mean we're at least on the same page for that.

 

2) There's a way called being tasteful and having giant boobles flop around with tiny metal pasties isn't it and it looks flat out ridiculous. I don't care if people think it's "freedom of expression". It looks ridiculous. No amount of reference pictures and history buffing will change that.

 

3) I was talking about the folks who were talking about the practicality of mostly-nude hand to hand combat but I guess you can think I was talking about that picture instead if it makes you feel better.

 

I can tell you though that the plate looks pretty ridiculous. Anyone who actually understands breasts in the least bit would know how uncomfortable and silly that looks. Apparently Obsidian acknowledged that so it's all good. If they felt like they made the right artistic expression in the first place, I really doubt they would have changed it.

 

im not sure why im even replying since, based on the styling of your post, you're gonna come at me about how apparently how the heroes you mentioned were actually mindless testosterone machines or that floppy boobs are practical or whatever because you're just trying to look for an argument in anything i say no matter how relevant it is to the actual topic due to me appearing to be on the "enemy team". k whateves

 

 

also, i love how this thread is labeled "hot"

Edited October 23, 2012 by henofthewoods

[Gurkog]

Boob plate just looks weird, to me. Ware attire should involve function over form, but whatever characters wear off the battlefield isn't any concern of mine.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Gurkog

[Nidrolok]

What you think would that cause uproar among male players?

No, I don't think so. But that isn't accurate anyway. Let me fix that for you.

 

Male Warrior Character:

 

 

Female Warrior Character:

 

 

Monk Character:

 

 

[Takamori]

Jesus mother****ing Christ Josh Sawyer already gave the message: No boob plates or bikini chain mail hold your damn horses.

Now can we finally stop with this masturbation over the same subject that had been discussed over and over.

Sorry you are no special snowflake that will give a new insight to it, you are just:

 

 

and

[Joukehainen]

I am definitely not for non-sexualized women in video games. Sexuality is a part of life and I have nothing against portrayals of sex or sexiness in games. What I'm for is internal consistency in the game diegesis. Sex is what you have when the armour comes off. I think Oblivion has done a great job in the past of giving us characters like Kreia, Imoen, etc, where sexy bodies were not the primary focus of those characters. Does that mean I'm against sexiness in general or even sex scenes? Nope. Those can certainly add to a character, atmosphere, etc.

 

In regards to Justin Sweet, what I like about his art (other than the technical skill, the colour palette, and the moody atmosphere) is the range. He has women in boobplate, he has women not in boobplate.

 

(And for those who still want to draw the imo false equivalence that Conan = Taki, no, no it doesn't. Conan = that female orc image I posted, or a female bodybuilder in a bikini.)

 

Ladies in armour:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ladies in armour-flavoured fetish gear (mildly NSFW):

 

http://www.strangeco...tent/145896.jpg

 

http://image.shutter...an-86729239.jpg

 

http://vglounge.com/...ass-450x562.jpg

 

 

And if we're going to have women in fetish gear, we should have men in fetish gear, too (although this particular guy would have to hit the gym, the tanning salon, the body waxer, and the enlargement clinic to be in the same style):

 

 

 

 

Did Furiku read this? No, because if they had, they would see that it destroys all of their points.

 

This isn't about vulgarity. This isn't about PC. This isn't about puritanism or fear of sex. Those of you that honestly feel Obsidian is caving to some sort of internet-wide, conspiratorial PC/feminist agenda: why are you sitting around all day on Obsidian's forums? You're not fighting the good fight by trying to convince devs to embrace immature stereotypes that cater to the lowest common denominator. You're just trolling.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Joukehainen

[henofthewoods]

Jesus mother****ing Christ Josh Sawyer already gave the message: No boob plates or bikini chain mail hold your damn horses.

Now can we finally stop with this masturbation over the same subject that had been discussed over and over.

 

that'll work like how telling someone not to torrent a movie will make them never pirate again

Edited October 23, 2012 by henofthewoods

[Furiku]

Did Furiku read this? No, because if they had, they would see that it destroys all of their points.

 

This isn't about vulgarity. This isn't about PC. This isn't about puritanism or fear of sex. Those of you that honestly feel Obsidian is caving to some sort of internet-wide, conspiratorial PC/feminist agenda: why are you sitting around all day on Obsidian's forums? You're not fighting the good fight by trying to convince devs to embrace immature stereotypes that cater to the lowest common denominator. You're just trolling.

Quoting yourself over and over again won't make your points any more right and trying to sound like you somehow hold the universal truth might not have the desired effect either. Also, the company is called "Obsidian", not "Oblivion".

 

You constantly sound like the primordial white-knight, I don't think the term would fit better on anyone else participating in this thread, but then Sweden is weird that way...:

http://www.dailymail...-I-stop-it.html

http://www.thelocal.se/20232/20090623/

http://www.slate.com...ntroversy_.html

http://www.vice.com/...-sit-on-the-bus

http://ferrada-noli....ndemned-by.html

Edited October 23, 2012 by Furiku

[henofthewoods]

You constantly sound like the primordial white-knight, I don't think the term would fit better on anyone else participating in this thread, but then Sweden is weird that way...:

 

(oh boy links)

 

so you're basically conceding all intelligent conversation and just deferring to articles completely irrelevant articles that apparently make your manhood shiver in fear

 

yeah okay this thread is dead. not sure why i even tried.

[Totally Awesome]

Hopefully they'll have many different body sizes for men and women. Not just two - big and buff/huge **** and ass.

[Joukehainen]

So someone who thinks there's nothing wrong with sex and sexuality in games, who wants internal consistency in a game's diegesis, who thinks fetish gear is alright if applied equally to both genders, who thinks Obsidian has given us great portrayals of women characters, and who's not a man is a primordial white-knight. Glad we cleared that up.

[Gatt9]

None of you are ever going to convince anyone else on this subject no matter how much "logic" and text walls of China you try to apply to this silly subject...what the hell is wrong with you people?!

 

is it seriously gonna be like this for the next 2 years?

 

I think you're missing the point, it's not to convince other posters of anything, that's irrelevant. It's to get a message to Developers that is the goal.

 

TBH, I doubt we'd even be talking about this if it weren't for Bioware's butt/boob level camera angle every time Miranda walked on stage and Jack running around in alien environments wearing less clothes than a stripper. EA pushed a few things over the edge with Mass Effect, and the DLC war and Journalist corruption weren't the only things.

[Badmojo]

Wait, are you WhitKnighting the devs?

Because they said that the armour would have been changed anyway, since the boobplate was not the initially intended direction.

 

But you'll just say that it was said so only to appease the anti-boobplate faction.

 

No, I said they caved to pressure. Sure they said they were going to change it anyway...right after they showed the original Armour and the WK's came on and demanded it be changed. If they were not going to use that Armour then they would not have showed it and would have showed the changed one instead. It is only AFTER the the WK's troll pressure to change it that they suddenly want to change it for historic accuracy. Yea sure.

 

I'm pretty sure that some mercenary woman who kills for money won't wear a fur thong and an iron bra when on mission and it doesn't matter if it is fantasy setting or not. The topic is not about feminism or sexism or white knights but common sense.

 

Common sense would tell said person they should not be an idiot and try and fight monsters, powerful mages, gods...or other big bad things. Also, common sense would tell them to wear NO ARMOUR since it is restrictive, slows you down, and would be a death magnet for mages throwing lighting/firballs at them. So much for common sense.

 

I'm genuinely curious - is it possible to not be "utterly bland" and also to not "offend anyone"? If the game manages that, will you still regret your backing?

 

Or is the only way to not be bland is to be offensive?

 

Not trying to attack you, but I'm a bit curious about this line of thought because to me I'm more interesting in "how they use it" than "what they use".

 

Nope, trying to not offend anyone is guaranteed to turn the game into a horrible bland disney game. The fun of the old games is that it did not worry about pissing this or that group off (this is before the ESRB nanny came out), they created what they wanted and people bought it or didn't. This is why I supported kickstarters like this, however PC groups are trying to change these "old" style games to suite their political agendas. Do not put this in, it offends me, do not put this in, it offends this group, do not put this in, it insults X group...etc. You cannot make anything good listening to that noise. I put money in to get away from all that BS, if they listen to it, it will become pretty evident (like the obvious changes to the armour design). Pleasing the PC crowd is stupid, because I am sure most of the backers are thinking like me, creating a game with no restrictions including worrying about PC correctness in the game.

 

I seriously will regret putting money into this if it looks like they turned it into a PC pleasing game and probably will not support them again in future projects if it is the case.

 

A lot may not know/remember but one of the biggest things that ruined BioWare's games was when they caved in to false propaganda. The "sexbox" bit during a news fragment of "FoxNews" with self proclaimed "experts" which told nothing but blatant lies about Mass Effect led to all following BioWare games containing nothing but clothed sex. That completely ruined the experience of the game for many.

 

I would find it rather refreshing to see a game with nothing but a huge middle finger for all political correctness and touchy feely subjects. A bit extreme but movies have done it.

 

Well, that was also EA's influence after the first game. I found it funny that the strippers were clothed in the strip bars.

 

What's depressing is that these threads are hashed out again and again. Yet I'm still compelled to say something because of the ignorance shown by some of the presumably male posters.

 

I've been gaming since 1984, I'm female and I think I have a right to request that my sex is treated with some measure of dignity in video games. That said I'm sure Obsidian won't cave to the idiots who want pandering eye candy.

 

What right do you have to speak for your sex in a fictional universe who the vast majority of the audience playing will most likely be male? If that is the case then I demand men treated with dignity and respect in romance novels and not used for women vile sexist fantasies. I also demand romance novels to change the way they right and open up to male audiences.

 

 

Please spare me... Not the romance crowd again.

 

If you don't see how nudity in Game of Thrones is ridiculous fan service, then I'm afraid there's no hope for you.

 

Game of Thrones is good in many ways, but the over- emphasis on "grimdark" and completely gratuitous nudity is really a letdown. Game of Thrones is basically Twilight for men. You know, if I was in a sarcastic mood, I could probably describe Twilight as "one of the best, most realistic and most beloved "fantasy" representations altogether".

 

Not sure what your point is. Fanservice? Its something that people (not just men) OBVIOUSLY like. The only people complaining seems to be the prudes.