Anti-Dragon Age 2?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'll be sure to talk about why the dialogue wheel is even worse in DA2 than it was in DA1.

 

There wasn't one in DAO.......

 

In fact, DAO actually had a good dialogue system.

[LadyCrimson]

I just reinstalled DA2 30 minutes ago. Ran through the tutorial. Fraps'd it. It's taking up 25 GB. My second drive is almost full so I'm going to have to play the game in small spurts and convert them as I go.

I know nothing about this game series, but are you recording in half-size with Fraps? That might help you with that a bit. But yeah...even then it can take a lot of space, depending on the game.

Anyway ... good luck with that.

[anubite]

I'll be sure to talk about why the dialogue wheel is even worse in DA2 than it was in DA1.

 

There wasn't one in DAO.......

 

In fact, DAO actually had a good dialogue system.

 

Gah, it didn't have the wheel? I could've sworn it was the first game that had it.

 

But it's been a while. I guess I should consider replaying that too. But I dunno. I barely have enough time to do a proper DA2 playthrough.

[Volourn]

You hate the game so much you gonna play it again. That doesn't make sense. You remind me of a guy who played a game 7 times yet claimed to loathe it. One protests too much, I say.

 

You won't catch me playing any game I claim is 'worst ever' again unless I tried it in secret and found it enjoyable. Certainly not to prove an unproveable point.

 

I'll wait your DA2 4th Time Through Review. It'll be a doozy!

[Morgoth]

DA3 is bound to be the best DA game, possibly the best BioWare game in recent history. Why? They got plenty of pre-production and development time plus using a new and very robust technology (Frostbite 2 based), so Bio would have to do something very very stupid to screw that up.

[Nepenthe]

DA3 is bound to be the best DA game, possibly the best BioWare game in recent history. Why? They got plenty of pre-production and development time plus using a new and very robust technology (Frostbite 2 based), so Bio would have to do something very very stupid to screw that up.

Let's just say that if they **** this one up, they'll be out of excuses.

 

My personal opinion is that the ludicrous amount of hate directed at Dragon Age 2 is the most abhorrent example of groupthink I have ever witnessed

Is probably just a touch, a smidgeon, a tad overstated in the reverse direction.

I felt like using big words. I don't get to do it a lot now that I've defended.

So, from a hypothetical bias in the designated target demographic, you extrapolated a behavioral pattern?

I empirically observed a psychological phenomenon and grossly overstated its societal impact by adding an ill-thought expression.

[Hassat Hunter]

Gah, it didn't have the wheel? I could've sworn it was the first game that had it.

That would have been Mass Effect. Hence being commonly called the "Mass Effect wheel"...

 

DA:O had a good system for conversation, before DA2 ruined it and much more. Shame, since I really liked DA:O... :/

[anubite]

Let's just say that if they **** this one up, they'll be out of excuses.

 

They were out of them with ME3. If they **** up DA3 though (which, they already have by my estimation - it's already confirmed you're forced to play as a human, which indicates to me at least, it will have all the same problems DA2 had), EA will close the studio.

[Nepenthe]

I'm sure it'll fail according to your objective criteria. :D

[Volourn]

They don't need no excuses for ME3. It was a good game. Not as good as the earlier MEs but pretty solid. For one thing, they have games with worse endings yet nobody whined about those.

 

And, no, EA will not close down BIO because of ME3 'failing' to live up to some random poster's OPINION. Then again, people have predicting BIO's closing since their wear with Interplay a good 10+ years ago.

 

That said, I am dissapointed that you are stuck playing a ghuman. Boooooooooo!!!!!

[anubite]

Volourn, EA will close BW down because

 

DA2 sold less than DA1

ME3 sold less than ME2

SWTOR was a massive financial failure

 

It's as simple as that. Whether you disagree with me or not, the numbers don't lie. BW has been making less and less money for EA on each iteration. SWTOR was so bad, EA can't even lie to its investors anymore.

 

When DA3 fails to eclipse DA2's sales, they will be completely justified in tearing the studio apart.

 

Also, Volourn, if you keep it up, I'm going to have to request proof that you don't have a previous history of working in Edmonton Canada.

Edited November 4, 2012 by anubite

[Nonek]

I'd agree that the humanocentric focus of Dragon Age 3 is a mistake, Both Ferelden and the Free Marches were not shown to have any interesting cultural significance, though told by the journal we were not shown any degree of Ferelden cultural uniqueness, which stood out all the more obviously when put in contrast against the fascinating Dwarven and Qunari species. Then again this is probably forced upon them by player feedback and their "cinematic" approach trumping gameplay or features, and considering the highly acclaimed response to the Mass Effect trilogy who can blame them.

 

I doubt EA would peremptorily close all of their Bioware studios, if in decline they will slowly be whittled down and die out like all the other studios that the publisher has closed down over the years.

[anubite]

Exactly. I think the Qunari, or the Dalish, or the rabble-elves, or /anyone else/ is more fleshed out and would be infinitely more fascinating to play as. But even better, I'd like to have the choice of my race. Because they've already decided that we're forced to play human, it means they have a cinematic experience ready for us once more, instead of a narrative with multiple facets and diverging assets. BioWare is desperately afraid to make a game which can't be a spectacle, it's afraid to make a game where the general consumer won't see close to 90% of the game's content in one run. It's abandoned any attempt at making a narrative which can apply to a wide variety of races and origins. Its developers don't want to deal with the complexity of, "What if the player isn't human when he addresses this NPC?"

[Volourn]

"DA2 sold less than DA1"

 

Sure, but it was also a lot less coslty to make so it was still highly profitable.

 

 

"ME3 sold less than ME2"

 

This simply is not true.

 

 

"SWTOR was a massive financial failure"

 

Doubtful. It is not as scucessful as EA hoeped but it sold well enough and iss till making money. It was likely profitable but not ehavily. If it was a financial failure they would have canceled it completed and not waste time working on it at all. EA isn't afraid to cancel/stop projects when they fail.

 

 

 

"It's as simple as that. Whether you disagree with me or not, the numbers don't lie. BW has been making less and less money for EA on each iteration. SWTOR was so bad, EA can't even lie to its investors anymore.

 

When DA3 fails to eclipse DA2's sales, they will be completely justified in tearing the studio apart."

 

You are posting nonsense. If EA was thinking of tearing down BIo why do they keep naming various EA divisions BIO x. If they thought BIo was a doomed divisiuon they would be trying to get rid of all signs of them. Also, if DA2 and ME3 were such horrible failures like you try to pretend they are why are they making sequels to them? Taht doesn't make sense.

 

 

"lso, Volourn, if you keep it up, I'm going to have to request proof that you don't have a previous history of working in Edmonton Canada. "

 

You beg and demand all you want, I don't obey internet peons like yourself. My real life status is none of your bizness. Stop being such a wannabe stalker.

[Nonek]

I didn't realise that the Little Britains Got Talent television program was so popular as to have a community.

[anubite]

Sure, but it was also a lot less coslty to make so it was still highly profitable.

 

This is very narrow, short-term thinking. It's never a good idea to saturate the market with ****, even if it's profitable the first time you do it. It hurts your future sales of said product.

 

See: Guitar Hero, the first collapse of the video game industry

 

Dragon Age 2 sold enough to be profitable, I suppose - it's hard to say but it did have enough sales where I suppose that's possible. But it sold far less than DA:O did and it hurt the image of quality BioWare was known for. The way the video game industry works is this: initial game strengthens sales for the sequel. People may buy a bad game the first time, but they will show their support for that game when it comes to buy its sequel. Dragon Age 2 will hurt the sales of Dragon Age 3. It will be an uphill battle to convince RPG consumers that they won't be burned again by BioWare.

 

And Mass Effect 3 did sell more poorly compared to ME2, or at least, those were the sales projections around April. Of course, EA was also recently caught fudging numbers about the sales of its games on sites like VGChartz, so it's hard to say definitively.

 

SWTOR had the biggest budget of any video game in history, I believe. It's F2P this year. I would argue that it did not make the necessary revenue to meet its development budget. It sold under 2.1 million and maintained a subscriber base of less than half that after the first (free) month. It's a ghost town right now.

[Volourn]

"For the record, I just want to state that BioWare is the greatest company in the world and that it makes excellent RPG video games. It's also one of the few studios that is willing to make games for the LGBT community. Dragon Age 2 was a fine game and immensely profitable.

 

Cullen is also very cute. "

 

L0L This is very cute. I have a little fake mini me. Whose alt is this? Let's not make this Codex 2, guys.

 

 

"This is very narrow, short-term thinking. It's never a good idea to saturate the market with ****, even if it's profitable the first time you do it. It hurts your future sales of said product."

 

Actually, it's a smart business practice that many use and it works. EA has made an art of this with their sports games, afterall. Even their NHl series which isn't a huge seller (maybe 1mil copies per year if lucky) is profitable.

 

"But it sold far less than DA:O did and it hurt the image of quality BioWare was known for. The way the video game industry works is this: initial game strengthens sales for the sequel. People may buy a bad game the first time, but they will show their support for that game when it comes to buy its sequel. Dragon Age 2 will hurt the sales of Dragon Age 3. It will be an uphill battle to convince RPG consumers that they won't be burned again by BioWare."

 

BIO has had people bashing their games since their inception yet their games continue to sell. The biggest complainers tend to be the ahrdcore players who pretty much buy anything resembling a rpg automatically. *shrug*

 

 

"And Mass Effect 3 did sell more poorly compared to ME2, or at least, those were the sales projections around April. Of course, EA was also recently caught fudging numbers about the sales of its games on sites like VGChartz, so it's hard to say definitively."

 

VGChartz is untrustwhorthy. ME3 has outsold by a large margine both earlier MEs. It's not even a comparison. And, I say that despite the fact that ME3 is my least favorite of the three.

 

 

"SWTOR had the biggest budget of any video game in history, I believe. It's F2P this year. I would argue that it did not make the necessary revenue to meet its development budget. It sold under 2.1 million and maintained a subscriber base of less than half that after the first (free) month. It's a ghost town right now. "

 

The problem with the budget talk is it seems to have changed depending on the speaker and how much time goes by. I've heard people prolcioam it cost $200mil to make when it used to be $50mil. 2.1x$50 (even though it costs more than that) is 100$mil and I'm sure it's sold more than 2.1mil by now and it liekly cost most people more than $50. I didn't buy it but at my store it would have cost me $80+. Again, if it failed so horribly, EA would have thrown it in the trash. It definitely isn't as successfula s they hoped it be to be sure.

[Nepenthe]

Return On Investment, ROI, FFS!

 

Some of you couldn't make a hot dog stand profitable, yet assume to be able to run a behemoth the size of EA better than they do.

[Zoraptor]

Gah, it didn't have the wheel? I could've sworn it was the first game that had it.

That would have been Mass Effect. Hence being commonly called the "Mass Effect wheel"...

Technically, Fahrenheit/ Indigo Prophecy at least had a dialogue wheel earlier, though ME was certainly the first Bioware game to use it- and it has to be admitted that "Fahrenheit/ Indigo Prophecy wheel" does not really trip off the tongue as a description.

[alanschu]

Anubite, I just want to say that I encourage you to NOT do something you don't enjoy doing, simply under the guise of trying to convince people to change their minds. I don't think it will have the effect you hope it does.

 

 

Cheers.

[GhostofAnakin]

Speaking of re-playing, I can't seem to play DA:O offline. It lets me play the core game, but if I try to load any of the DLC it gives me an error message.

 

Apparently the only XBox360 you can play the DLC offline with is the one you originally downloaded the DLC to. Even if I use my same Live account, I can't use the DLC offline on my new XBox360. Who came up with this bright idea?

[NOK222]

Speaking of re-playing, I can't seem to play DA:O offline. It lets me play the core game, but if I try to load any of the DLC it gives me an error message.

 

Apparently the only XBox360 you can play the DLC offline with is the one you originally downloaded the DLC to. Even if I use my same Live account, I can't use the DLC offline on my new XBox360. Who came up with this bright idea?

 

You have to switch your licenses, it's a simple procedure. http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live/marketplace-and-purchasing/download-content

 

While I love seeing Bioware getting flak, this is a Microsoft thing.

[GhostofAnakin]

I did all that, and it still gives me issues. Some stuff shows up, like Shale. But some stuff gives me an error message when loading.

 

Edit: One issue seems to be that some of the DLC requires the newest update. For some reason, the newest update causes the top corners of my TV to flicker during dialogue, which becomes very distracting. So I prefer playing with an older patch so I don't have to deal with those flickering corners. But when I play with an older patch, the DLC simply won't load.

Edited November 4, 2012 by GhostofAnakin

[anubite]

Return On Investment, ROI, FFS!

 

Some of you couldn't make a hot dog stand profitable, yet assume to be able to run a behemoth the size of EA better than they do.

 

No, I'm more and more convinced each day that I could run EA better than EA runs itself currently.

 

And if ROI were the sole-driving focus of all businesses, we'd be living in the industrial age. News flash, business has involved. Making a profitable business is more than turning the world into paste and sucking it dry. Businesses have realized, or at least, the enlightened ones have, that capitalism is a force which is self-destructive when taken too far. Especially when it comes to a non-essential commercial product.

 

So far, all EA has done well is churn out the same sports game every year and made enough money to keep their sports division afloat. Since the latest court ordering that basically says, "NFL ain't yours anymore." EA has Fifa and that's it. Every other franchise they've created since John Macaroni took his seat as president, has been 'disappointing' or a downright flop.

 

Anubite, I just want to say that I encourage you to NOT do something you don't enjoy doing, simply under the guise of trying to convince people to change their minds. I don't think it will have the effect you hope it does.

 

No, I need to do this. Because as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a good enough video to start from. If we're going to have this argument about the 'quality of video games' and what is to be expected of their creators, we need a place of origin. If you aren't going to provide your base of origin, my base of origin is going to have to be constructed immaculately, so we can start somewhere. If you're so convinced I'm wrong, then you can take half an hour of your busy life to give a response to a stupid video I'm going to make, so that I can better articulate in a follow-up response why you're wrong and why video games need to be of... some essential composition.

 

This isn't under the guise of changing peoples' minds - though I hope that does happen as a result, for me, it's more important that we have a point of beginning. Video games are a relatively fresh medium and I don't know of any iconic or 'bible-esque' things we can turn to, to begin the discussion.

 

I mean, xRazorFistx, does an okay job at ripping into Dragon Age 2 and detailing what he loathes about it

 

 

And smudboy does an acceptable job at analyzing Dragon Age 2's poorly implemented plot

 

 

But neither go into specific detail about what's wrong with the gameplay, or how the gameplay fails to line up with the narrative, or how all these moving parts fail to come into a positive gestalt.

 

As far as I know, no one has detailed why this game fails. And if it does fail, as I believe it does, what can we learn from it? What can BioWare learn from it?

 

If nothing else, I will be satisfied in laying out what I think is utterly wrong with it - so I will never utilize any of the things BioWare attempted to utilize. Also, I will then be able to be better critical about Dragon Age 3, and determine why it failed as a result of a failing to learn from Dragon Age 2.

Edited November 5, 2012 by anubite

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Anubite, I just want to say that I encourage you to NOT do something you don't enjoy doing, simply under the guise of trying to convince people to change their minds. I don't think it will have the effect you hope it does.

 

 

Cheers.

 

So Alan, do you enjoy defending DA2 on both the BSN and here? It must get rather tiring.