A plea for more recognition of choices in RPGs

[DreamDancer]

Hey guys, I'd like to write a bit about something that is most important to me when it comes to enjoying a game and the world it presents to us in its many different ways. Now that Project Eternity is in a very early development state I thought I'd take the chance and add my suggestions about what the game should probably focus on. Maybe my PoV is shared by many, maybe I am alone with this, but I would like to at least explain where I am coming from. So here it goes...

 

For me the main source of enjoyment comes from being drawn into a world of fantasy and trying to imagine what it would be and feel like to actually live there. This is usually achieved by experiencing an expertly crafted story, convincing NPCs that you meet on your journeys and of course also the visual representation of that world. Most games I've played do a solid job but I always felt like there is something missing, something that could have made the experience much more intense and unforgettable.

 

For me it is all about recognition. Recognition of the player's race, class, reputation, special perks and powers, personality, the things he says and the things he does, his looks, the stuff he wears, and so on and so forth. All these things that allow you to express yourself, to be uniquely you. For me there comes so much joy and immersion from this simple game mechanic, that I really wonder why it isn't done more often and in much greater depth so far.

 

DA: Origins did a great job at the beginning of each Origin Story to make that story feel distinct and unique with your choices having a great impact on your future. Much to my disappointment the recognition of my character's traits and background became less and less the more the game progressed. That's why it always gave me such a warm fuzzy feeling when I saw it rarely emerge once again.

 

For example the moment when you meet that tribe of elves and you -being one yourself- are welcomed like one of their own and you share race specific lore and rituals, is one of the greatest moments I had in that game. There was recognition of my choices, of all those things that made my character unique. So much immersion came along with that recognition, it made me want to stay in that camp forever and forget about the rest of the game. Because the game world became suddenly that much more meaningful and authentic it also sparked my interest in its lore so that I would take the chance to talk with everyone involved and do all the fluff that wasn't important to the main story but added to the overall experience of really being an elf amongst kin.

 

Why the sudden peak in interest? Because the game made me care. About the world it presented, its lore and its people. All achieved by adding recognition. So...what I am asking for is to treat recognition and reaction to the player's character as a major focus for development. Not some nice bonus or sidenote, but a fully fledged feature being right up there with all the other core game mechanics. Of course, here opinions will differ. It's just that for me this is what RPG is all about. Playing a role and experiencing a fictional life in a fictional world. Only works though if that world recognizes me and the role I play.

 

Now I know that you can't create thousands of reactive, dynamic paths for each and every choice the player makes. What would be nice though, and I think that might be achievable with a writing team working on it for a few months, is writing different dialogue and additional dialogue choices for a lot of the features that make the player's character unique. Even if its just for the major ones, like race, class and gender. I'd really like to see a certain level of recognition that is held throughout the entire game and not sparsely distributed here and there. This also makes replaying the game much much more enjoyable, because if people are already willing to do another playthrough just to see a dozen of different dialogue and events -usually either at the start or at the very end-, how thrilled would they be if it were a few hundred from start to finish, no matter what part of the world they choose to explore?

 

Oh, and I believe focusing on recognition would also enhance the exploration part a lot. Because I would be so much more motivated to go explore the whole world once again with a different character because I will get -sometimes vastly- different reactions from the people I thought I'd know.

 

Ok, this concludes my little rant about recognition. Feel free to add your thoughts about it. Thanks for reading

[Infinitron]

Dude, this is an Obsidian game. They're going to blow DA: Origins out of the water in terms of reactivity.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Infinitron

[Sensuki]

Choices with no VO limitations as well.

[evdk]

Think Tim Cain. Think Arcanum. Think awesome.

[DreamDancer]

Dude, this is an Obsidian game. They're going to blow DA: Origins out of the water in terms of reactivity.

 

This is indeed what I am hoping for. If a team can pull it off, I am sure it is Obisidian. It's just that I have become carefully optimistic when it comes to reactivity in modern RPGs. You know, most of the time all we hear about is how great the combat mechanic is and how visually stunning the world looks. That's all great and enhances the experience, but this is not where the meat of a RPG game is, at least for me. It's in these "little" things, like that elven archer greeting you in their native language and making some snide remarks about your dwarven companion, all because you are one of their own. This is what I'd like to see, not being treated like "random human dude" by the world, because then charcaters become interchangeable and that kinda kills the immersion for me.

 

Once again, I know this is Obsidian, but you may understand that I've become a bit guarded when it comes to games delivering on depths and reactivity opposed to just presenting a beautiful but hollow shell *cough* Skyrim* *cough*.

[Infinitron]

Dude, this is an Obsidian game. They're going to blow DA: Origins out of the water in terms of reactivity.

 

This is indeed what I am hoping for. If a team can pull it off, I am sure it is Obisidian. It's just that I have become carefully optimistic when it comes to reactivity in modern RPGs. You know, most of the time all we hear about is how great the combat mechanic is and how visually stunning the world looks. That's all great and enhances the experience, but this is not where the meat of a RPG game is, at least for me. It's in these "little" things, like that elven archer greeting you in their native language and making some snide remarks about your dwarven companion, all because you are one of their own. This is what I'd like to see, not being treated like "random human dude" by the world, because then charcaters become interchangeable and that kinda kills the immersion for me.

 

Once again, I know this is Obsidian, but you may understand that I've become a bit guarded when it comes to games delivering on depths and reactivity opposed to just presenting a beautiful but hollow shell *cough* Skyrim* *cough*.

 

Heh, don't worry. This game doesn't have the budget to create a beautiful but hollow shell of a world, even if the developers wanted to.

[evdk]

They could always aim for hideous but hollow, they have money enough for that.

[Druon Grawal]

Greetings everyone!

 

I know that some of the developers already promised us a great deal of reactivity among our companions and I am really looking forward to see Obsidian delivering on these promises. But with my history of RPGs played I think I know what DreamDancer is after. Even games that provided some reactivity among party members and main story quests often had those awkward moments: You meet a certain NPC of a particular interesting race or faction and among the dialogue the game tries to teach the player a bit about the world and lore, like what the race, class etc. is all about.

 

This can be nice, but only if it doesn't break the immersion. Most of these dialogues go about like the player character suddenly is a human commoner (or something in that spirit). It really gets ugly when NPC-dwarves start telling your dwarven hero what it means to be a dwarf or hearing your priest asking with utter fascination about the god he/she was supposed to worship for the last decade of his/her life.

 

I really would like to see some more attention to detail there. A skilled writer (and Obsidian has those, as I know) can easily give the same amount of information in a way, that feels right in regards to the hero. Like having the dwarf-NPC greet a fellow dwarf and then being in a reminiscent mood talking about how things are back home – giving out that same information about what it is like to be a dwarf, but in a way that fits the story.

 

With some triggers and a bit of additional or simply adjusted dialogue you can make a lot of players happy.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, without VO, there is no harm adding different lines per race, avoiding those issues. Which VO, becomes harder since you need to voice them *all*... and that costs money. And publishers/developers dislike adding money for stuff some people may not see so they just generalise it into a single line.

 

So, yeah, I doubt the issue would be present in PE...

[Gromnir]

Think Tim Cain. Think Arcanum.

 

dear lord, anything but that.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[evdk]

Think Tim Cain. Think Arcanum.

 

dear lord, anything but that.

 

HA! Good Fun!

World reactivity, not combat mechanics.

[Joukehainen]

woops look below

Edited October 23, 2012 by Joukehainen

[Joukehainen]

I suggest reading this post by Josh Sawyer. His oldschool GM skills will not disappoint. Not to mention, yeah Chris Avellone.

 

Remember, this is the team that created the game that to-date has the most text of any game ever. We'll have choices coming out the wazoo.

 

A necessity for threads like this:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2012 by Joukehainen

[Gromnir]

I suggest reading this post by Josh Sawyer. His oldschool GM skills will not disappoint. Not to mention, yeah Chris Avellone.

 

Remember, this is the team that created the game that to-date has the most text of any game ever. We'll have choices coming out the wazoo.

 

A necessity for threads like this:

 

 

 

after ps:t, the black isle folks were always quick to reassure potential customers that game X wouldn't have as much dialogue as ps:t. much dialogue not necessarily = better game. black isle developers learned their lesson. heck, even Shakespeare didn't brutalize his audience with long dialogue blocks strung one after the other-- soliloquies were rare.

 

but we were talking 'bout reactivity and not... prolixity.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[DreamDancer]

I read the post by Josh and I am a bit more hopeful now that they will indeed spend a good amount of resources on reactivity/recognition of player choices. I agree that it doesnt need to be a huge out branching quest series for every choice. Sometimes some floating text above townsfolk commenting on one of your deeds or any other dominant feature of your character (race, gender, profession, etc.) will do just fine. Just have lots of it all over the world, because it adds immensely to the immersion you can give some locations to truly make them unique.

 

Yeah, places also are characters in a story. And you can make them stand out by having reactions unique to that certain place. People in village A may be very welcoming to the traveling paladin stopping by for a nights rest, but village B may slam the door into his face because they had bad experiences with the holy crowd.

 

Ofc, if you do that for a huge amount of choices you end up writing a dozen novels worth of text, but maybe it would justify the effort if the result makes the world you create that much more alive?

[JFSOCC]

I suggest reading this post by Josh Sawyer. His oldschool GM skills will not disappoint. Not to mention, yeah Chris Avellone.

 

Remember, this is the team that created the game that to-date has the most text of any game ever. We'll have choices coming out the wazoo.

 

A necessity for threads like this:

 

 

 

 

 

dug up from the recesses of the internet, this is ancient lore! insightful.

I do hope in the 10 years since this was posted he's changed his mind about the "if this is the result of a speech skill, show it in big bright letters" concept.

we're currently debating it in this forum...

Edited October 29, 2012 by JFSOCC

[BetrayTheWorld]

Good post OP. Nice to see other people who appreciate engrossing story/fluff that doesn't seem entirely contrived. I recall in previous RPGs I've played, there were fledgling reputation systems in place that ranked your reputation with various groups of people. Such a system could actually be highly developed with minimal effort on an excel chart to make an entire RPG world far more reactive and engaging. I'm sure anyone with database knowledge will understand what I'm getting at. The chart could be checked at the beginning of relevent conversations, and updated appropriately when triggered conversation texts are chosen, or actions are taken that had witnesses. If all witnesses are killed before leaving the area, reputation doesn't change. Perhaps you could even silence witnesses to actions in other ways. Perhaps these attempts to stop rumors of your exploits from effecting your reputation will actually generate more. It could be a really awesome system to create and maintain a dynamic, reactive world. I almost didn't want to post this idea, because it'd work so well in an RPG and I'm giving my ideas away for free. But on the other hand, I'd like this to be a great game, and I doubt I'll have the financial backing to make my own any time soon.

 

P.S. If anyone at Obsidian is listening, I'll work cheap. lol

[Churchwarden]

Good post OP. Nice to see other people who appreciate engrossing story/fluff that doesn't seem entirely contrived. I recall in previous RPGs I've played, there were fledgling reputation systems in place that ranked your reputation with various groups of people. Such a system could actually be highly developed with minimal effort on an excel chart to make an entire RPG world far more reactive and engaging. I'm sure anyone with database knowledge will understand what I'm getting at. The chart could be checked at the beginning of relevent conversations, and updated appropriately when triggered conversation texts are chosen, or actions are taken that had witnesses. If all witnesses are killed before leaving the area, reputation doesn't change. Perhaps you could even silence witnesses to actions in other ways. Perhaps these attempts to stop rumors of your exploits from effecting your reputation will actually generate more. It could be a really awesome system to create and maintain a dynamic, reactive world. I almost didn't want to post this idea, because it'd work so well in an RPG and I'm giving my ideas away for free. But on the other hand, I'd like this to be a great game, and I doubt I'll have the financial backing to make my own any time soon.

 

P.S. If anyone at Obsidian is listening, I'll work cheap. lol

 

Tracking reputation with multiple parameters is something I would also love to see in PE. I think actions like slaying a village and having it known would be engaging. Also, since the setting is not the communication era (i.e. cell phones, and nearly ubiquitous internet access) I think it would be great if my PC could have more or less defining character features that make him easier/more difficult to recognize to an unknown NPC. If I had a face tattoo of a dragon, and I slaughtered all but one witness, people would fear the "man with the dragon tattoo." If I looked like a pig farmer, people would assume I was one before they knew anything more about me.

 

If my PC managed to do some heroic/infamous things that affected the whole of the world or even a large region, I would love for him to gain recognition and have a harder time hiding from his celebrity identity. Everything he does is more widely known and critically judged as he becomes more famous. Extending this idea to dialogue tracking as I mentioned in another thread could help him build a reputation as an honorable man, a bully, or even a pathological lier, the latter of which is most entertaining for me to imagine.

[Skapanza]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP! This is where my hopes for this game lie, and the reason for me BGII is the game that all other games fail to recreate.

 

In playing Dragon Age (two much moreso than one), I always felt that that lore aspect was anything but subtle. If your party member is being grouchy and you stop to talk to them they may as well have a "NPC QUEST INCOMING" box floating above their head. In Baldur's Gate my party members are whining, bickering, lovin' on each other and myself, angrily leaving my party, etc. Sometimes it's part of an overarching party member quest, sometimes it's just Korgan insulting Anomen because that's who he is.

 

The subtlety is created by having dialogue options that are a) not necessarily introduced by the PC, but sometimes by an NPC approaching me, or speaking with one another, and b) dialogue between NPCs or NPCs and myself is common enough that each time it happens i'm not thinking "Here comes the one quest associated with this party member after which I will have their undying loyalty and never have to interact with them again!"

 

Rather, I'd like to see what we had in BG, where characters are commenting on your actions, approving or disapproving in a way that doesn't seem contrived, because they talk to you about other meaningless things too. Far too often there is little interaction outside of things directly related to quests and moving the story forward, which is something I'd like to see avoided in PE. Lots of interactions, so that when the quest interactions do occur, they don't seem ham-fisted and artificial.

 

I think avoiding VO (for the main character, NPC VOs are of course very important! What would we do if we knew heard the dulcet tones of Minsc?) is a great plan for lots of reasons, some of which are mentioned earlier in this thread. First of all, I hear my character's voice in my head, I'm not especially interested in what the developers think I sound like. Secondly, i find it really frustrating when the game I'm playing refers to me constantly with a general term. It's not so bad in ME because everyone is Commander Shepard, but it necessarily limits your RP and character. But in games like DA where you are not referred to by name but always as "the Hero" or whatever it was, I find it breaks the 4th wall. Baldur's Gate did a good job, even when they had VO, because the text of Imoen's dialogue said "Skapanza, are you awake? I was having a terrible nightmare" but the VO itself would just say "Are you awake? I was having a terrible nightmare". That little adjustment made a significant difference for my immersion experience.

 

This rambled on pretty long, but it really encapsulates my feelings towards NPC interaction and immersion and includes some things I'd love to see in PE. It's tangentially related to recognition of choice. I'm sure I'll have more to say on the issue later in the thread, but I came over from the dialogue thread and it must have been in the forefront of my mind.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Skapanza

[Joukehainen]

after ps:t, the black isle folks were always quick to reassure potential customers that game X wouldn't have as much dialogue as ps:t. much dialogue not necessarily = better game. black isle developers learned their lesson. heck, even Shakespeare didn't brutalize his audience with long dialogue blocks strung one after the other-- soliloquies were rare.

 

but we were talking 'bout reactivity and not... prolixity.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

True, but my point was that text wasn't superfluous - 18 possible responses. Ie 18 choices. That's a hell of a lot.

 

I don't recall Black Isle promising potential customers they wouldn't have a much dialogue as PS:T - afaik a lot of PS:T's "failure" when it came to initial purchases was the relatively 'ugly' cover on the jewel case.

 

It was a simpler time back then

 

 

dug up from the recesses of the internet, this is ancient lore! insightful.

I do hope in the 10 years since this was posted he's changed his mind about the "if this is the result of a speech skill, show it in big bright letters" concept.

we're currently debating it in this forum...

 

Well I dunno, take that screenshot, for example. You can see that there is a bluff and truth option about merging with them (13 and 14) - this is highlighted out so that you as the player understand the difference, despite the actual wording of the response being the same. How would one make distinctions like this (say X honestly vs say X lying) without pointing out the nature of the dialogue skill being used?

Edited October 30, 2012 by Joukehainen

[DreamDancer]

Good post OP. Nice to see other people who appreciate engrossing story/fluff that doesn't seem entirely contrived. I recall in previous RPGs I've played, there were fledgling reputation systems in place that ranked your reputation with various groups of people. Such a system could actually be highly developed with minimal effort on an excel chart to make an entire RPG world far more reactive and engaging. I'm sure anyone with database knowledge will understand what I'm getting at. The chart could be checked at the beginning of relevent conversations, and updated appropriately when triggered conversation texts are chosen, or actions are taken that had witnesses. If all witnesses are killed before leaving the area, reputation doesn't change. Perhaps you could even silence witnesses to actions in other ways. Perhaps these attempts to stop rumors of your exploits from effecting your reputation will actually generate more. It could be a really awesome system to create and maintain a dynamic, reactive world. I almost didn't want to post this idea, because it'd work so well in an RPG and I'm giving my ideas away for free. But on the other hand, I'd like this to be a great game, and I doubt I'll have the financial backing to make my own any time soon.

 

P.S. If anyone at Obsidian is listening, I'll work cheap. lol

 

Yes, I also believe that this would be a fantastic idea and add a lot to the reactivity of the game world. 'll admit I have no clue about database programming and managing, but if such a system could be created that checks various flags that are constantly added and modified by the player's actions throughout the game and makes the world recognize them, then I believe the fictional world would feel a lot more immersive and "authentic".

 

Tracking reputation with multiple parameters is something I would also love to see in PE. I think actions like slaying a village and having it known would be engaging. Also, since the setting is not the communication era (i.e. cell phones, and nearly ubiquitous internet access) I think it would be great if my PC could have more or less defining character features that make him easier/more difficult to recognize to an unknown NPC. If I had a face tattoo of a dragon, and I slaughtered all but one witness, people would fear the "man with the dragon tattoo." If I looked like a pig farmer, people would assume I was one before they knew anything more about me.

 

If my PC managed to do some heroic/infamous things that affected the whole of the world or even a large region, I would love for him to gain recognition and have a harder time hiding from his celebrity identity. Everything he does is more widely known and critically judged as he becomes more famous. Extending this idea to dialogue tracking as I mentioned in another thread could help him build a reputation as an honorable man, a bully, or even a pathological lier, the latter of which is most entertaining for me to imagine.

 

Your example with the face tattoo is really what I've been thinking of in terms of recognition of the unique features the player's character has. I mean, how cool would it be if you choose an option like that at char creation and later on people in the world whisper about that stranger with the dragon tattoo who has done deed X and is supposed to have done deed Y. Basically building a legend on the recognition of that prominent cosmetic feature. Again an example of making small things that usually are just fluff an important factor in the game. Definitely gives the feel of playing YOUR story.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP! This is where my hopes for this game lie, and the reason for me BGII is the game that all other games fail to recreate.

 

In playing Dragon Age (two much moreso than one), I always felt that that lore aspect was anything but subtle. If your party member is being grouchy and you stop to talk to them they may as well have a "NPC QUEST INCOMING" box floating above their head. In Baldur's Gate my party members are whining, bickering, lovin' on each other and myself, angrily leaving my party, etc. Sometimes it's part of an overarching party member quest, sometimes it's just Korgan insulting Anomen because that's who he is.

 

The subtlety is created by having dialogue options that are a) not necessarily introduced by the PC, but sometimes by an NPC approaching me, or speaking with one another, and b) dialogue between NPCs or NPCs and myself is common enough that each time it happens i'm not thinking "Here comes the one quest associated with this party member after which I will have their undying loyalty and never have to interact with them again!"

 

Rather, I'd like to see what we had in BG, where characters are commenting on your actions, approving or disapproving in a way that doesn't seem contrived, because they talk to you about other meaningless things too. Far too often there is little interaction outside of things directly related to quests and moving the story forward, which is something I'd like to see avoided in PE. Lots of interactions, so that when the quest interactions do occur, they don't seem ham-fisted and artificial.

 

I think avoiding VO (for the main character, NPC VOs are of course very important! What would we do if we knew heard the dulcet tones of Minsc?) is a great plan for lots of reasons, some of which are mentioned earlier in this thread. First of all, I hear my character's voice in my head, I'm not especially interested in what the developers think I sound like. Secondly, i find it really frustrating when the game I'm playing refers to me constantly with a general term. It's not so bad in ME because everyone is Commander Shepard, but it necessarily limits your RP and character. But in games like DA where you are not referred to by name but always as "the Hero" or whatever it was, I find it breaks the 4th wall. Baldur's Gate did a good job, even when they had VO, because the text of Imoen's dialogue said "Skapanza, are you awake? I was having a terrible nightmare" but the VO itself would just say "Are you awake? I was having a terrible nightmare". That little adjustment made a significant difference for my immersion experience.

 

This rambled on pretty long, but it really encapsulates my feelings towards NPC interaction and immersion and includes some things I'd love to see in PE. It's tangentially related to recognition of choice. I'm sure I'll have more to say on the issue later in the thread, but I came over from the dialogue thread and it must have been in the forefront of my mind.

 

I very much agree on the points you made. Especially the part of conversations and dialogue choices feeling too contrived. Again it is probably considered "just" fluff but having conversations that aren't always related to the quest at hand or the recent events would certainly help in making the companions or other NPCs become more than just witty one-liner dispensers whenever someone pushes their button. This very much touches upon another gripe of mine I have and that is how uninteresting your companions are if the only time the game allows them to flesh out their personality is during major (quest or main story line related) events.

 

I think DA:O already went in the right direction by having the camp where you could socialize with them, but usually it had to be you who initiated the conversation and the dialogue choices were only related to that NPCs specific role or background. No idle chatter about the world in general, what they liked doing when they weren't out saving the world, what they always wanted to know about the player's character, etc. I think in those moments between the major epic events and quests those companions could really start to grow on you by talking about general stuff that still shows their unique approach to everything based on their specific personality, but isn't limited to just Companion Quests and during major events.

 

Now if you add the aforementioned reactivity to them as well, t would be pretty awesome I think. I fondly remember the moments in Mount and Blade when I would travel n the proximity of a particular city or region and suddenly one of my companions would approach me and tell me why this city or region had a special meaning to them, also giving me more insight into the culture and history of the people living there. Basically a very well done, immersive lore exposition.

 

One last thing I wanted to comment on is what you said about VO and the referral to your character using generic terms like "the hero". Because I also prefer the much more personal use of my character's name I am in favor of dropping VO all together and just have it text based. I create their voices n my head anyway when I read their lines, so I am not really missing anything. And if you consider that especially in very personal situations the NPCs/Companions can't address you with your first name or nickname or anything of a more intmate nature because it couldn't possibly have been recorded before, then having it just text based becoems much more appealing. At least for me.

[Heresiarch]

Actually, I would like it very much. My memories of DA2 are still fresh. Running around as a mage and throwing blood magic all around in downtown Kirkwall, while people kept asking me to hunt those terrible apostate blood mages. Didn't make any sense to me at all. Like every person in town was thinking to themselves, "Hey, that THE Champion, right? He simply can't be an abomination himself, can he?"

 

I'd also want some lasting consequences, not simple acknowledgement of the fact. If you are the local equivalent of a living walking horror you should be treated like such.

[DreamDancer]

@Heresiarch

 

DA2 is indeed a prime example on how not to do it. I still weep for the lost potential they had with the theme of that game. If you played as a mage using blood magic no less, it should have had serious consequences and people should have reacted to it. I mean, it's basically like being involved in a murder case trying to prove your innocence and then running around in a blood soaked shirt while wielding a big rusty cleaver. Breaks immersion so much that you can't buy into the world anymore.

 

If it is a major issue that is also related to the underlying theme of the game, it should have a major impact on the game world, maybe being one of two very dfferent paths along with unique quests and events. Of course they can't do that for every choice you make, but at least acknowledge it in the form of floating text above people's head. Would have worked wonders for DA2 if there had been at least some minor recognition of the fact that you are a blood mage yourself and also have a bunch of other very obvious mages in your team, strolling through the town as if it were Magic Central :D

[Cultist]

Ah, yes, "Choices That Matter" create topic like this on BSN and you'll get 10 or so pages in a first several hours and half of the posts will be mockery about it.

I likes how in Alpha Protocol adressed choices and consequences but for fully fledged RPG I would like for Obsidian to drive it even further.

[Skapanza]

DreamDancer and Heresiarch sum up a lot of my concern with DAII very well.

 

I don't know that I would go as far as eliminate VO for NPCs as well as the PC. I don't think my BGII experience would be as fun if i couldn't shout Korgan and Minsc battle cries at my pen-and-paper games. Just my opinion, but that's worth glancing over my name in text but not hearing it in the VO. Otherwise I think you both are right on with your comments. Lots of dialogue, fleshed out party members, good times.