[Merged] Women, Feminism, etc. in PE

[Grimlorn]

It makes no more sense

This whole discussion makes no sense, but by all means have it.

[Grimlorn]

No fat chicks. It's unrealistic that they would be in an adventure party and able to slay monsters and stuff. They'd be out of breath in less than a mile of walking.

 

agreed. Not like fat dudes that keep up due to being broos.

Who cares what the guys look like?

[Rostere]

Here's an old blog bost on appropriate armour: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/4dreye/20120328 It is my hope that Obsidian will move past the silly, comic style that we're used to see towards the more mature photorealistic armour style.

[Giantevilhead]

It makes no more sense

This whole discussion makes no sense

 

Only if you haven't taken Logic 101 or Literature 101.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Giantevilhead

[Nidrolok]

If you set up a certain of rules for something like a character class, everyone in that class should follow those same rules. Knights protect themselves with armor. Monks protect themselves with martial arts and mystical abilities, which require far greater freedom of movement. It makes no more sense for knights to wear the armor that direct enemy blows towards their heart than for monks to wear armor that restrict their movement and make it harder for them to dodge blows.

But this is fantasy armours we are talking about here, they're all about as protective as an g-string. Since none of the other armours make any god damn sense it would more consistent if there was boob-plate, instead of there being doubts about the functionality and sensibility of the armours all of a sudden.

[Gyor]

No fat chicks. It's unrealistic that they would be in an adventure party and able to slay monsters and stuff. They'd be out of breath in less than a mile of walking.

 

You assume fat=lazy, which is false, a person can have alot of muscle under the fat. Its just a question of burning less fat then one consumes. I'm a landscaper and I've seen it many times.

[NerdBoner]

heheheh this thread is TRULY hilarious...a bunch of males discussing what is and isn't appropriate for females to wear in a fictional setting.

 

 

so in other words, business as usual, just like in real life.

[Suen]

Who cares what the guys look like?

Who robs kegfish of their sight?

We do, We do...

[Mr Moonlight]

heheheh this thread is TRULY hilarious...a bunch of males discussing what is and isn't appropriate for females to wear in a fictional setting.

 

 

so in other words, business as usual, just like in real life.

 

That's a rather rash assumption to make. Granted I'm not what most would consider really a woman, but hardly my fault...

[Giantevilhead]

If you set up a certain of rules for something like a character class, everyone in that class should follow those same rules. Knights protect themselves with armor. Monks protect themselves with martial arts and mystical abilities, which require far greater freedom of movement. It makes no more sense for knights to wear the armor that direct enemy blows towards their heart than for monks to wear armor that restrict their movement and make it harder for them to dodge blows.

But this is fantasy armours we are talking about here, they're all about as protective as an g-string. Since none of the other armours make any god damn sense it would more consistent if there was boob-plate, instead of there being doubts about the functionality and sensibility of the armours all of a sudden.

 

How would things be consistent for women to have different armor than men. If fantasy armor operate by a different set of logic then why is there still a separation between men and women? How does inconsistency = consistency?

Edited October 19, 2012 by Giantevilhead

[Gyor]

Boob plate is not going to deflect a blade with enough force to pierce the armour enough to pierce the heart, most of the energy kinetic is going to be used and what's left is not going to be enough to pierce the plate if the intial attack full strength was not enough.

 

Also take into account that your armour will in time be magic, which will altered the properties of the armour's base material which might not be made from normal material to begin with in some cases.

 

Magic could even make the chain mail bikini work really. Maybe its enchanted to confer the durablity of the metal its made from onto his or her flesh. Or the loin cloth of incorpereality. The Plate Bikini of hypnosis, that cause foes to subconciously miss the target completely. Glasssteal thong of magic mirror, protects by creating illusionary dupilcates. The Mitheril Teddy of Magnetic Defiance, creates a magnetic field that draws the weapon to parts of the armour that can safely endure the impact. Or how about Diamond Demibra of Temporal Disappation, slows an attacker long enough to dodge. So many ways to make sexy armour work. Kind of fun too.

[Coincidence]

heheheh this thread is TRULY hilarious...a bunch of males discussing what is and isn't appropriate for females to wear in a fictional setting.

 

 

so in other words, business as usual, just like in real life.

 

I've somehow never heard the term "boob plate" before this thread, so it did that for me at least.

[Nidrolok]

If you set up a certain of rules for something like a character class, everyone in that class should follow those same rules. Knights protect themselves with armor. Monks protect themselves with martial arts and mystical abilities, which require far greater freedom of movement. It makes no more sense for knights to wear the armor that direct enemy blows towards their heart than for monks to wear armor that restrict their movement and make it harder for them to dodge blows.

But this is fantasy armours we are talking about here, they're all about as protective as an g-string. Since none of the other armours make any god damn sense it would more consistent if there was boob-plate, instead of there being doubts about the functionality and sensibility of the armours all of a sudden.

 

How would things be consistent for women to have different armor than men. If fantasy armor operate by a different set of logic then why is there still a separation between men and women? How does inconsistency = consistency?

Consistency in how fantastical and unrealistic it is. For example in the concept art wallpaper thingy Cadegund sticks out quite a lot since her armour almost seems viable and all the other characters wear things of very questionable protective value. You are right that there doesn't necessary need to be a difference between armour for men or women, but there is no reason there shouldn't be either. Obsidian changing Cadegund's chest armour into something more realistic when none of the other character's equipment makes much sense either seems like it was done to please feminists rather than an overall aim for realism.

[Gyor]

For the record I think the game should have GLBT characters as well.

[Arkeus]

Consistency in how fantastical and unrealistic it is. For example in the concept art wallpaper thingy Cadegund sticks out quite a lot since her armour almost seems viable and all the other characters wear things of very questionable protective value. You are right that there doesn't necessary need to be a difference between armour for men or women, but there is no reason there shouldn't be either. Obsidian changing Cadegund's chest armour into something more realistic when none of the other character's equipment makes much sense either seems like it was done to please feminists rather than an overall aim for realism.

Except that all the characters equipments are quite realist. Caedun was the only one who had something that wasn't realist, really.

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

Obviously the only solution is to have a cast stuffed with highly sexualized male characters who run around in codpieces while all female characters can wear full, practical armor. No see, codpieces are in a shape that in this universe gives them a special magical resonance that allows armor to be the less effective of the options from a practical perspective, so it's okay.

[Chabneruk]

Wow, I really... wow... do you see a feminist political correctness conspiracy everywhere? This is utterly ridiculous.

 

This is not about pleasing feminists or adhering to political correctness. This is about cultural diversity in regards to beauty, this is about a realistic approach towards the female (and male, for that matter) population in what will become - as we all hope - a great game. This is not about boobplate because boobplate has, well, boobs. This is because (as experts have pointed out) boobplate would be impractical. And why should anyone enchant a female bikini (given that such a thing even exists in a fantasy setting)? Its impractical. Spellbreaker and you are not only helpless, but also half-naked. Why not enchant a full plate instead, giving double protection?

 

Many of the people in this thread who really want to discuss these things (and it seems many of them have given up because of the crazy) want an immersive, realistic world. That includes diversity in women, but also standartised equipment for battle. Others want to see their fantasy fulfilled, for a little escape from reality. Thats a valid point too, though I don't share it. And another group tries to combine these things, pledging for "teh sexy" (even if a bit unrealistic) where it can be put in, regarding the logic integrity of the world.

 

Yes, many of those who posted are men. Does it matter? No. Because these men will play the game. They have paid for it on Kickstarter. They believe in it. And now they think about what the game should be like. What they would like to see. Whether its armor, whether its violence or whether there should be a giant kick-backside monster in the game. And here they discuss the approach towards the population (primarily the female one, but also men) and the diversity of beauty ingame and how they would like to see interesting characters that are not only defined by body feature. (And yes, Obsidian has done it well a few times already, so one can get his hopes up, but still discuss it - Planescape Torment handled Violence well and still it is discussed).

 

Why shouldn't the players (even if they are male) not be allowed to do that?

Edited October 19, 2012 by Chabneruk

[Luridis]

Can we just forget about the whole politically correct nonsense on the issue? The whole thing is a farce anyway. The bottom line is I'm certain that beyond the wannabe internet knights nobody wants ugly/fat people in games.....I see enough in real life thank you very much so keep them the hell OUT of my games. I'm sure women don't want to see ugly or fat men in games(let alone as companions) any more than men want to see ugly or fat women so just drop the nonsense.

 

The game is supposed to be fantasy anyway so give me beautiful, smart and strong women with a sensitive and caring side. That would be great. If I want to see ugly and fat people all I have have to do is leave the house and I have to do that a lot more than I'd like(what with work and life and all that).....you should try it sometimes before asking they be placed in a game.

 

What I find funny is that you seem to think that you speak for everyone's taste in sexual partners. The world doesn't revolve around you and what you want. There are more people here than just you. There are more tastes in sexuality than your own. Finally, there are more people that supported the project than just you. The other people I speak of are here, and they have a voice too.

[Giantevilhead]

Boob plate is not going to deflect a blade with enough force to pierce the armour enough to pierce the heart, most of the energy kinetic is going to be used and what's left is not going to be enough to pierce the plate if the intial attack full strength was not enough.

 

Also take into account that your armour will in time be magic, which will altered the properties of the armour's base material which might not be made from normal material to begin with in some cases.

 

Magic could even make the chain mail bikini work really. Maybe its enchanted to confer the durablity of the metal its made from onto his or her flesh. Or the loin cloth of incorpereality. The Plate Bikini of hypnosis, that cause foes to subconciously miss the target completely. Glasssteal thong of magic mirror, protects by creating illusionary dupilcates. The Mitheril Teddy of Magnetic Defiance, creates a magnetic field that draws the weapon to parts of the armour that can safely endure the impact. Or how about Diamond Demibra of Temporal Disappation, slows an attacker long enough to dodge. So many ways to make sexy armour work. Kind of fun too.

 

Magic can make chain bikinis work but does it make chain bikinis better than regular armor of the same quality? It's a logical fallacy to say that because magically enchanted chain bikinis are better than regular chain mail then they're great armor. That's like saying that because a Ford Pinto can go faster than the fastest horse then it's a great car. You're not comparing the same things. Maybe a magically enchanted chain bikini is better than a regular chain mail but is it better than a chain mail that has the similar kind and amount of enchantment?

Edited October 19, 2012 by Giantevilhead

[Mr Moonlight]

Wow, I really... wow... do you see a feminist political correctness conspiracy everywhere? This is utterly ridiculous.

 

This is not about pleasing feminists or adhering to political correctness. This is about cultural diversity in regards to beauty, this is about a realistic approach towards the female (and male, for that matter) population in what will become - as we all hope - a great game. This is not about boobplate because boobplate has, well, boobs. This is because (as experts have pointed out) boobplate would be impractical. And why should anyone enchant a female bikini (given that such a thing even exists in a fantasy setting)? Its impractical. Spellbreaker and you are not only helpless, but also half-naked. Why not enchant a full plate instead, giving double protection?

 

Many of the people in this thread who really want to discuss these things (and it seems many of them have given up because of the crazy) want an immersive, realistic world. That includes diversity in women, but also standartised equipment for battle. Others want to see their fantasy fulfilled, for a little escape from reality. Thats a valid point too, though I don't share it. And another group tries to combine these things, pledging for "teh sexy" (even if a bit unrealistic) where it can be put in, regarding the logic integrity of the world.

 

Yes, many of those who posted are men. Does it matter? No. Because these men will play the game. They have paid for it on Kickstarter. They believe in it. And now they think about what the game should be like. What they would like to see. Whether its armor, whether its violence or whether there should be a giant kick-backside monster in the game. And here they discuss the approach towards the population (primarily the female one, but also men) and the diversity of beauty ingame and how they would like to see interesting characters that are not only defined by body feature. (And yes, Obsidian has done it well a few times already, so one can get his hopes up, but still discuss it - Planescape Torment handled Violence well and still it is discussed).

 

Why shouldn't the players (even if they are male) not be allowed to do that?

 

It's like I said before, a writer or a designer shouldn't nessessarily have to compensate for a certain groups whims if it compromises a work's style or tone (barring extreme circumstances of an artist's personal bias). It would ultimately damage the work by having an odd element and most professionals are sensible enough not to add something completely outrageous. That said, I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, especially given how the term "feminism" has different personal meanings to people.

[Gyor]

Just had a thought anyone else thinking about,Austin Powers 2 where Powers gets out of the water in a bikini in a Prodidy of Heather Graham. Who says only girls get to wear the Chainmail bikini?

[Joukehainen]

Just had a thought anyone else thinking about,Austin Powers 2 where Powers gets out of the water in a bikini in a Prodidy of Heather Graham. Who says only girls get to wear the Chainmail bikini?

 

Indeed, I'm fine with chainmail bikinis for the ladies, if you have equal parts chainmail mankinis for the gents.

[jarpie]

Just had a thought anyone else thinking about,Austin Powers 2 where Powers gets out of the water in a bikini in a Prodidy of Heather Graham. Who says only girls get to wear the Chainmail bikini?

 

Indeed, I'm fine with chainmail bikinis for the ladies, if you have equal parts chainmail mankinis for the gents.

 

Is Obsidian known for writing unrealistic female characters and making sexist characters?

[Joukehainen]

Just had a thought anyone else thinking about,Austin Powers 2 where Powers gets out of the water in a bikini in a Prodidy of Heather Graham. Who says only girls get to wear the Chainmail bikini?

 

Indeed, I'm fine with chainmail bikinis for the ladies, if you have equal parts chainmail mankinis for the gents.

 

Is Obsidian known for writing unrealistic female characters and making sexist characters?

 

You could read my posts:

 

And allow me to also point out, yet again, that I think there is no need to worry too much about the representation of female characters in respect to PE, because the team looks to be doing a great job with it.

 

 

and

 

I LOVED both the choice of making a dwarven ranger female (not a combo you see often, female dwarf you know - "it's the beards!"); and the look of Cadegund. Both would certainly be attractive by offline human standards, but both look like they could indeed be warriors, and while Sagani is showing skin, it's clearly not done in a gratuitous or objectifying way.

 

I feel, OP, that Obsidian is on the ball with this and we need not worry too much.

 

Jumping to conclusions is never a good thing, jarpie. I was just responding to Gyor's comment on Austin Powers in a bikini.

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

Is Obsidian known for writing unrealistic female characters and making sexist characters?

I quite clearly remember the Handmaiden stripping down to her frilly lace underpants and using the usual "clothing is a cultural construct" excuse.