Update #21: 5 days left!

[Michael_Galt]

Awesome. Now I know my monk will have a monkly brother! I will have fists of frost to his fists of fire! We shall be fire and ice! (not a plug for that Martin guy) Now all I need is a paladin, a chanter, a rogue and a mage. We shall walk softly, but be full of righteous might and enlightenment.

[hideo kuze]

Regarding update #21 on KS:

 

This baby is simply looking great!

 

 

The giant statue is a wonderful stroke at making the dungeon a whole lot more interesting.

I really! want to see what secrets it holds!

And learn about who made that statue. And why. And why it's buried!

 

I really like these types of adventures.

To be able to explore ancient dungeons/ruins and find out about new things, that the rest of the game-world hasn't discovered yet.

 

 

 

Now for the not so good:

 

 

The problem with Forton is his stance which is plain wrong... unless he's a level 1 noob.

Being a chinese martial arts practitioner that portrait made me cringe.

That stance is a knee cap killer. Nobody lasts long damaging their knee caps like that.

The front leg should be with a 90 degree angle, with the knee cap basically over his heel (or just a little bit more). Otherwise you have your weight at your knee joint, which you don't want.

As for the back leg the feet should be at 45 degrees, otherwise (like you can see in the pic) you end up with the knee is pointing towards the side instead of the front. Which is knee injury inducer since that stance (Deng Shan Bu) requires alignment as you're supposed to use your back leg to generate power by pushing (from Si Liu Bu to Deng Shan Bu).

And if you want to be perfectionist, the front foot should also be pointing at 45 degrees in order to protect his groin.

 

 

 

 

Do view the first 15 seconds:

 

 

in 3 you use the back leg to push forward and generate power that connects with your punch

(not perfect case since he isn't in Su Liu Bu)

http://www.usashaoli...inside-kung-fu/

 

And give Forton some proper shoes!

One doesn't simply walk into Mordor using sandals :/

You want to protect your feet in the battle field.

 

 

A good reference for the scene you're trying to capture:

 

 

If this concept art is to be used in the game, I would ask for OE to correct it.

Just as the Cadegum was corrected because it's what makes sense.

Edited October 13, 2012 by hideo kuze

[Shadenuat]

Forton - because dirty pants and sandals in a world where even mages wear armor being afraid of bullets. Makes complete sense.

[Ieo]

And give Forton some proper shoes!

One doesn't simply walk into Mordor using sandals :/

You want to protected your feet in the battle field.

 

 

If this concept art is to be used in the game, I would ask for OE to correct it.

Just as the Cadegum was corrected because it's what makes sense.

I noticed the stance too. Awkward...

 

And he's not just wearing sandals (which can have a heel strap and other designs)--it's worse than that.

 

He's wearing FLIP FLOPS.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Ieo

[mstark]

-a lot of good stuff-

Being a martial artist myself (Hung Ga, Yee lineage, 5th generation from Wong Fei Hung) I can't stress how important the points made by hideo kuze are... please do allow your concept artists, as well as class developers, to study the actual real-world background of the characters you create!

 

 

As much as I disliked the game, the Diablo 3 monk, in its own unrealistic ways, got a lot of this right.

Edited October 13, 2012 by mstark

[Hornet85]

This is just a game, not a martial arts simulator. Its set in a fantasy world, with fantasy being.

 

Did any of you guys wrote strong letters to the producers after watching Armageddon? Complaining that its impossible for the space shuttle to leave low earth orbit and asteroid's debris don't have GPS.

 

I didn't. I knew those facts but I also knew that sometimes you have to separate reality from entertainment for it to be entertaining.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Hornet85

[hideo kuze]

The same could be said about the breast plate issue...

This is just a game, not a breasts plate simulator. Its set in a fantasy world, with fantasy being.

 

Just because it's a fantasy game it doesn't mean it needs to a victim of all sorts of mistakes.

It would be the same thing as having swords look like those silly models that are 2 times bigger than the character itself. That isn't fantasy, that is bad design.

Also, like I said, if this concept art will not be used again, there is no need to spend time correcting it.

 

The reason I was so detailed in my post was that I wanted to justify my points, instead of simply saying that is wrong.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Everytime I see the Monks name, I think of Fortran.

[Tychoxi]

The same could be said about the breast plate issue...

This is just a game, not a breasts plate simulator. Its set in a fantasy world, with fantasy being.

 

Just because it's a fantasy game it doesn't mean it needs to a victim of all sorts of mistakes.

 

 

but as long as they don't stretch it past certain thresholds and on several fronts, they get a pass... The sketch also rubbed me in a bad way, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what was wrong!

 

Anyway, the 3M mark is so close...

Edited October 13, 2012 by Tychoxi

[agewisdom]

The same could be said about the breast plate issue...

This is just a game, not a breasts plate simulator. Its set in a fantasy world, with fantasy being.

 

Just because it's a fantasy game it doesn't mean it needs to a victim of all sorts of mistakes.

It would be the same thing as having swords look like those silly models that are 2 times bigger than the character itself. That isn't fantasy, that is bad design.

Also, like I said, if this concept art will not be used again, there is no need to spend time correcting it.

 

The reason I was so detailed in my post was that I wanted to justify my points, instead of simply saying that is wrong.

 

I agree with this. If the stance doesn't make sense, it should be changed. After all, the monk definitely looks human - so applying human standards to it makes good sense to me.

[rjshae]

Since this is a concept drawing, the Monk image could be looked at as a study for the final picture(s). Yes it's got a few issues, but they're quite fixable. Overall I appreciate the uniqueness of the look. It seems very Dark Sun-ish with the prominent musculature and minimal, threadbare clothing.

 

Forton - because dirty pants and sandals in a world where even mages wear armor being afraid of bullets. Makes complete sense.

 

Monks don't stand still casting spells.

Edited October 13, 2012 by rjshae

[nikolokolus]

It's concept art, not a template for designing in-game animations.

 

I get it, nobody likes to see a passion of their incorrectly portrayed (mountaineering and rock climbing are always wrong in movies) but this is a really minor oversight, given the time-table the artist is operating under.

[Zap Rowsdower]

Forton - because dirty pants and sandals in a world where even mages wear armor being afraid of bullets. Makes complete sense.

Everyone knows monks don't need any sthinkin' armor, the power of fisticuffs allows one to be immune to sissy bullets.

[eldrewden]

Can't wait to see what the final remaining days bring in. Keep those updates coming.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

meh. I'm not overly concerned with the monk artwork. It looks close to the below stances with the obvious right knee not at a right angle. The monk seems to be posing in a more upright position. I wouldn't mind seeing what the artwork looks like if his right knee was at 90 degrees.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2012 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Kilroy_Was_Here]

I just figured the monk was stretching before going out on his morning jog... or something.

 

Also, I wonder if that tattoo of the eye on his stomach is decorative or functional. My theory was that tattoo choices would have to be permanent stat tradeoffs because, you know, tattoos! It's not like just everyone is an immortal that can get away with taking them on/off whenever they wanted.

[Ieo]

I just figured the monk was stretching before going out on his morning jog... or something.

 

Also, I wonder if that tattoo of the eye on his stomach is decorative or functional. My theory was that tattoo choices would have to be permanent stat tradeoffs because, you know, tattoos! It's not like just everyone is an immortal that can get away with taking them on/off whenever they wanted.

 

Stretching! I like it.

 

Sagani's IWD-style concept art had a simple black bar across her eyes (which I really liked) but the newer group concept art had her face covered in a different style of tattoo, so I wonder. The monk's belly tattoo could be his faction mark or some soul thing. Maybe both...

 

Oh, but tattoos! Maybe PS:T tattoo powers?! Joyous...

[theseez]

Forton - because dirty pants and sandals in a world where even mages wear armor being afraid of bullets. Makes complete sense.

Everyone knows monks don't need any sthinkin' armor, the power of fisticuffs allows one to be immune to sissy bullets.

 

Funny, that was what the Boxers said too...

[Monte Carlo]

I think the monk is unrealistic - he should be brewing beer or bee-keeping. Where's his apiary? Dammit.

 

[Kuroneko]

meh. I'm not overly concerned with the monk artwork. It looks close to the below stances with the obvious right knee not at a right angle. The monk seems to be posing in a more upright position. I wouldn't mind seeing what the artwork looks like if his right knee was at 90 degrees.

<snip pics>

Actually, your examples demonstrate the very stark difference between Forton and a more proper stance. His stance looks nowhere close to the the ones there. You've misunderstood what hideo kuze said.

 

The foot should be with a 90 degree angle, not the leg/knee joint, "with the knee cap basically over his heel (or just a little bit more)." You can actually try the stance yourself--with a knee right over the foot, it's comfortable (unless you go too low). But if you put your foot our as much as Forton does, you'll feel the stress in your knee joint.

 

It's concept art, not a template for designing in-game animations.

That's true. But the art has a high chance of being used in the official supplementary materials, such as manual/almanac/etc., as we see Cadegund already doing in the updates. So while fixing the concept art is not by any means essential, it would still be very nice for Forton to not look very silly in those places. Because right now his stance conveys the opposite of 'master of martial arts'.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Actually, your examples demonstrate the very stark difference between Forton and a more proper stance. His stance looks nowhere close to the the ones there. You've misunderstood what hideo kuze said.

 

The foot should be with a 90 degree angle, not the leg/knee joint, "with the knee cap basically over his heel (or just a little bit more)." You can actually try the stance yourself--with a knee right over the foot, it's comfortable (unless you go too low). But if you put your foot our as much as Forton does, you'll feel the stress in your knee joint.

 

I didn't misunderstand at all. Which is why I said I would like to see his right leg come straight down. hideo kuze said his left leg should be behind him. I disagree. His left leg is fine. It's his right leg that isn't.

 

I did a poor photoshop of his calf beneath the knee coming straight down and it looks even closer to the pictures I've posted. Perhaps someone with better photoshop skills than me could post his leg beneath the knee coming straight down and move his foot to one side. I actually prefer this than the concept art.

[Kuroneko]

I didn't misunderstand at all. Which is why I said I would like to see his right leg come straight down. hideo kuze said his left leg should be behind him. I disagree. His left leg is fine. It's his right leg that isn't.

I think there's been a miscommunication somewhere, because I didn't see you even mentioning his left leg until now and you emphasized Forton's right knee as being close to your examples. I took that to imply that you thought Forton's right knee was well-positioned. If that's not what you meant, sorry.

[Archmage Silver]

Good update, it should keep people checking in during the final stretch. Personally I'm looking forward to the Icewind Dale II stream with Adam.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

It's okay. My only concern is his right leg. I did photoshop the concept art to have his right calf coming close to being straight down and moving his foot to the edge of the pciture. It's looks a lot better than the concept art. I was showing the other real life pictures to highlight that Forton's stance is similar to real life but he's posing higher. Just need to change his right calf to come down.

 

I'd show the picture but too embarrased due to my poor photoshop skills.

[hideo kuze]

Actually, your examples demonstrate the very stark difference between Forton and a more proper stance. His stance looks nowhere close to the the ones there. You've misunderstood what hideo kuze said.

 

The foot should be with a 90 degree angle, not the leg/knee joint, "with the knee cap basically over his heel (or just a little bit more)." You can actually try the stance yourself--with a knee right over the foot, it's comfortable (unless you go too low). But if you put your foot our as much as Forton does, you'll feel the stress in your knee joint.

 

I didn't misunderstand at all. Which is why I said I would like to see his right leg come straight down. hideo kuze said his left leg should be behind him. I disagree. His left leg is fine. It's his right leg that isn't.

 

I did a poor photoshop of his calf beneath the knee coming straight down and it looks even closer to the pictures I've posted. Perhaps someone with better photoshop skills than me could post his leg beneath the knee coming straight down and move his foot to one side. I actually prefer this than the concept art.

 

His left leg may not look bad to a non-practitioner, but it is.

And for the record Jet Li's back leg/foot is not well placed.

As for the lady, she is doing tai-chi, which is more relaxed. And I suspect that is a position transition.

 

 

You need to have a correct stance in order to be able to shift your weight from the back leg (when its bent) to the front, while not raising your height.

This movement allows you to translate your body weight into power at the tip of your fist.

If you don't have the angles right, you're basically screwing your knee joints.

45 degrees is the reference. But having your foot at a angle wider than 75 or so is plain wrong, especially the back one.

Edited October 13, 2012 by hideo kuze