Update #17: Brian Fargo from inXile Kicks In, Obsidian Kicks it Forward, New $165 Tier, and Expansion

[Humanoid]

GoG doesn't do patches, as far as I know - it'll likely be a good old fashioned self-extracting executable patch downloadable from, y'know, this website.

 

Even GoG's own Witcher 2 patch was released on that game's own site, not via GoG: all the latter did was, after a short delay, update the regular full game download to be that of the latest version, but no standalone patch.

[Madzookeeper]

actually, humanoid, they do. it's not automatic, but they do have them available if anything new is added. it's an additional executable. i've had a few games get updated recently.

[Redwulf]

I have little doubt that within about the last 2 days of the campaign the expansion will become an add-on. It makes perfect sense, first tempt the 100 + dollar pledges to up theirs, then, after they got some of them to commit to the increase, make it available to everyone. At the same time that they make it an add-on they add a little something extra for the 165+ tiers to keep them at those levels. I think this move is quite intelligent from a making money point of view...and as long as that extra money goes into making an even greater game... Well, I'm not going to complain, afterall it's our choice, and lets face it, all of us here are already dreaming of how great this game will be to play. And this move will make it greater, whether I like wrestling with the temptation to up my pledge or not.

[ogrezilla]

i don't see why patches and such wouldn't be available for a physical copy of the game. why in the world would they change that?

 

Maybe not intentionally, but users of the Steam version will presumably get patches through the Steam client, and users of the GoG version from their GoG.com account page, so in order for users of the boxed version to get them, Obsidian would have to set up a PE download area on its own website or something.

 

So it's not about them arbitrarily excluding some users, it's something that would require them to spend additional work/money.

or a very simple "search for update" feature in the game.

[Humanoid]

actually, humanoid, they do. it's not automatic, but they do have them available if anything new is added. it's an additional executable. i've had a few games get updated recently.

 

I'm looking at my Witcher 2 entry and there's no patch file listed, just the 10 part game download (which is the new Enhanced Edition) and extras with nary a patch to be seen. Would make sense for games where the dev/publisher has gone the way of the dodo I guess.

 

I'm not a fan of the game client checking for downloads, they tend to be a bit iffy in the long term, even if the companies involved still exist (e.g. KoTOR2's patch server no longer exists, despite LucasArts being still alive), or even in the short term (I've never ever gotten The Sims 3 patcher to work, and it's a still actively developed game).

 

 

EDIT: I see that same games, e.g. Dungeon Keeper 2, do have 'fixes' - but thinking that may be because it's a compatibility patch created by GoG as opposed to a developer-provided one.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Humanoid

[Madzookeeper]

actually, humanoid, they do. it's not automatic, but they do have them available if anything new is added. it's an additional executable. i've had a few games get updated recently.

 

I'm looking at my Witcher 2 entry and there's no patch file listed, just the 10 part game download (which is the new Enhanced Edition) and extras with nary a patch to be seen. Would make sense for games where the dev/publisher has gone the way of the dodo I guess.

 

Fake edit: I see that same games, e.g. Dungeon Keeper 2, do have 'fixes' - but thinking that may be because it's a compatibility patch created by GoG as opposed to a developer-provided one.

 

possibly, but i did get an FTL update and that game is really new. so... dunno. maybe it's something they're just starting to do?

[Piccolo]

Nice update.

 

Including Wasteland 2 as a reward for mid-higher tiers is a great idea. I don't expect it to trigger a massive rise in the amounts being pledged, given that a lot of cRPG fans will already have followed/backed the Wasteland 2 kickstarter... but i'm sure there's still quite a few out there who only caught on to kickstarters with the announcement of Project Eternity.

 

As for the expansion pack, I have some mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think it's great to see a proper expansion pack instead of small DLC (which I can't stand and refuse to buy out of principle). But on the other hand, i'm not sure whether it's a good idea to be announcing or even thinking about expansion packs this early on, let alone giving approximate release dates. Surely it's better to focus completely on making the best possible base game first, rather than constantly having one eye set on an expansion pack. Once the original game is complete and out there, that's really the time when developers should be deciding whether or not they want to (or need to) expand upon the game. Not before. If you have ideas for expanding the game before release, that kind of gives the impression that you're deliberately holding stuff back.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Piccolo

[Madzookeeper]

Trister - Obsidian Order Master Wetboy 4 minutes ago

 

@ feargus

ah, so very, very close! hopefully within the next couple of hours. certainly before the end of the night.

i have two questions for you from the forums.

1. how will the physical version of the game be patched? will there be an auto-patcher, or updater like with NWN2? or will it be something that we'll have to check for at times?

2. what happened to the second digital copy of the game at the 250 and 500 tier levels? did it get changed into the expansion?

 

 

 

Creator Obsidian Entertainment 2 minutes ago

 

@Tristen

(1) That is a good question. If you are not using Steam, it will most likely need to be a download. We have been talking about updating the front page of the game with news, but we know some people don't want their game connected to the internets at all.

(2) I need to look into that, tbh - I'm not sure which was the mistake right now. Adding them or removing them. Sorry.

 

 

So they are looking at those two things. and it you will be able to get patches for non-steam versions of the game.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Madzookeeper

[Humanoid]

Somewhat absurdly, I'll end up with four copies of Wasteland 2 as a result - not because I need four, or even two, but just as a side-effect of wanting the other goodies offered. If the $250+ tiers for Eternity have two digital copies then that's two I won't use, a similar outcome. Still, not really a complaint.

[Madzookeeper]

Nice update.

 

Including Wasteland 2 as a reward for mid-higher tiers is a great idea. I don't expect it to trigger a massive rise in the amounts being pledged, given that a lot of cRPG fans will already have followed/backed the Wasteland 2 kickstarter... but i'm sure there's still quite a few out there who only caught on to kickstarters with the announcement of Project Eternity.

 

As for the expansion pack, I have some mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think it's great to see a proper expansion pack instead of small DLC (which I can't stand and refuse to buy out of principle). But on the other hand, i'm not sure whether it's a good idea to be announcing or even thinking about expansion packs this early on, let alone giving approximate release dates. Surely it's better to focus completely on making the best possible base game first, rather than constantly having one eye set on an expansion pack. Once the original game is complete and out there, that's really the time when developers should be deciding whether they want to expand upon the game. Not before. If you have ideas for expanding the game before release, that kind of gives the impression that you're deliberately holding stuff back.

 

expansion packs are always thought about at this point in development i'd imagine. because the amount of ideas and such they have for games are so many that they just won't fit within time or budget constraints. however they are in no way going to be holding back anything they've promised, and they are going to be doing as much as they can. and it will be a whole/complete/long (think the old games length as what they're aiming for, or if you want a number 60+ hours (from a feargus comment a few days ago)) game. the expansion will not be worked on at all until after the game itself is complete (also from feargus), and they are funding the expansion themselves so no kickstarter funds are going to it at all (also from feargus). they're just saying that they are going to continue working in this world regardless of if it sells well immediately, as they have to by making this promise.

[anek]

or they could, you know, have an automatic updater or an updater that you can use like in NWN2. seems like that would make the most sense.

or a very simple "search for update" feature in the game.

 

Hm, yeah, I guess you're right.

 

I hope it doesn't automatically download & install anything without asking first, though.

 

And also, an in-game upgrade feature might be problematic for systems (Linux, potentially Windows 7, ...) where the user running the game may not have write access to its executable and datapack.

 

Edit: Just saw your post with Feargus answer - thanks!

Edited October 9, 2012 by anek

[Madzookeeper]

another useful bit of info that the feargusaurus rex just posted in the comments:

 

 

Creator Obsidian Entertainment less than a minute ago

@Hiro We had thought people would prefer that. So, we are going to have the option of turning off any connectivity. We like the idea of being able to deliver info and updates to the game - but we know that a lot of people feel that is intrusive.

 

so basically we'll have an optional news page that we can use. which is really cool.

[Wirdjos]

I'm not sure if I find this update exciting or disappointing. I was always hoping for this to be a franchise, so the idea of an old school expansion is a great one. However, it seems a little soon and I do wonder where the money's coming from. Have I missed the answer to that one? Apparently they are just going to fund this as a company? So does that mean they're going over to a publisher? Part of the appeal of this project, at least for me, was the fact that a publisher wasn't involved. It also seems like adding on the expansion kills any chance of a continued Paypal with reward tiers which means I'm stuck at my current tier.

 

So many questions. Whatever the answers, I would really like the next update to focus on how the closing of the kickstarter is going to be handled.

[Sensuki]

GoG doesn't do patches, as far as I know - it'll likely be a good old fashioned self-extracting executable patch downloadable from, y'know, this website.

 

Even GoG's own Witcher 2 patch was released on that game's own site, not via GoG: all the latter did was, after a short delay, update the regular full game download to be that of the latest version, but no standalone patch.

 

Actually they do, or at least did.

 

I don't know if you bought The Witcher 2 from day 1 but there was a specific gog_only update for one of the early patches and there used to be patch files before the Enhanced Edition IIRC.

 

As for updating the physical game, why not just use an updater.exe like Neverwinter Nights or something? Although personally I've always preferred downloadable exe's. Or even better a torrent

[Madzookeeper]

I'm not sure if I find this update exciting or disappointing. I was always hoping for this to be a franchise, so the idea of an old school expansion is a great one. However, it seems a little soon and I do wonder where the money's coming from. Have I missed the answer to that one? Apparently they are just going to fund this as a company? So does that mean they're going over to a publisher? Part of the appeal of this project, at least for me, was the fact that a publisher wasn't involved. It also seems like adding on the expansion kills any chance of a continued Paypal with reward tiers which means I'm stuck at my current tier.

 

So many questions. Whatever the answers, I would really like the next update to focus on how the closing of the kickstarter is going to be handled.

 

expansion packs are always thought about at this point in development i'd imagine. because the amount of ideas and such they have for games are so many that they just won't fit within time or budget constraints. however they are in no way going to be holding back anything they've promised, and they are going to be doing as much as they can. and it will be a whole/complete/long (think the old games length as what they're aiming for, or if you want a number 60+ hours (from a feargus comment a few days ago)) game. the expansion will not be worked on at all until after the game itself is complete (also from feargus), and they are funding the expansion themselves so no kickstarter funds are going to it at all (also from feargus). they're just saying that they are going to continue working in this world regardless of if it sells well immediately, as they have to by making this promise.

 

so no, they aren't going to be involving a publisher at all in this. also, going to ask feargus when he gets his scanner working about the paypal thing. stay tuned and i'll post his comment.

 

 

oy this is getting to be an old series of questions.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Madzookeeper

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I'm not sure if I find this update exciting or disappointing. I was always hoping for this to be a franchise, so the idea of an old school expansion is a great one. However, it seems a little soon and I do wonder where the money's coming from. Have I missed the answer to that one? Apparently they are just going to fund this as a company? So does that mean they're going over to a publisher? Part of the appeal of this project, at least for me, was the fact that a publisher wasn't involved. It also seems like adding on the expansion kills any chance of a continued Paypal with reward tiers which means I'm stuck at my current tier.

 

So many questions. Whatever the answers, I would really like the next update to focus on how the closing of the kickstarter is going to be handled.

 

These have been answered. The Kickstarter funds goes to the base game. When the expansion is released, you buy the expansion. Only a very small amount of people will get the expansion for free for pledging a high amount of money to the base game as a thank you.

[rjshae]

expansion packs are always thought about at this point in development i'd imagine. because the amount of ideas and such they have for games are so many that they just won't fit within time or budget constraints. however they are in no way going to be holding back anything they've promised, and they are going to be doing as much as they can. and it will be a whole/complete/long (think the old games length as what they're aiming for, or if you want a number 60+ hours (from a feargus comment a few days ago)) game. the expansion will not be worked on at all until after the game itself is complete (also from feargus), and they are funding the expansion themselves so no kickstarter funds are going to it at all (also from feargus). they're just saying that they are going to continue working in this world regardless of if it sells well immediately, as they have to by making this promise.

 

Yep, this is logical. To me it also indicates confidence in the marketability of the product line, which is good. Everybody wins.

[Piccolo]

Nice update.

 

Including Wasteland 2 as a reward for mid-higher tiers is a great idea. I don't expect it to trigger a massive rise in the amounts being pledged, given that a lot of cRPG fans will already have followed/backed the Wasteland 2 kickstarter... but i'm sure there's still quite a few out there who only caught on to kickstarters with the announcement of Project Eternity.

 

As for the expansion pack, I have some mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think it's great to see a proper expansion pack instead of small DLC (which I can't stand and refuse to buy out of principle). But on the other hand, i'm not sure whether it's a good idea to be announcing or even thinking about expansion packs this early on, let alone giving approximate release dates. Surely it's better to focus completely on making the best possible base game first, rather than constantly having one eye set on an expansion pack. Once the original game is complete and out there, that's really the time when developers should be deciding whether they want to expand upon the game. Not before. If you have ideas for expanding the game before release, that kind of gives the impression that you're deliberately holding stuff back.

 

expansion packs are always thought about at this point in development i'd imagine. because the amount of ideas and such they have for games are so many that they just won't fit within time or budget constraints. however they are in no way going to be holding back anything they've promised, and they are going to be doing as much as they can. and it will be a whole/complete/long (think the old games length as what they're aiming for, or if you want a number 60+ hours (from a feargus comment a few days ago)) game. the expansion will not be worked on at all until after the game itself is complete (also from feargus), and they are funding the expansion themselves so no kickstarter funds are going to it at all (also from feargus). they're just saying that they are going to continue working in this world regardless of if it sells well immediately, as they have to by making this promise.

I'm sure you're right about there being plenty of ideas they can't fit into the game for whatever reason, but how can they know that for certain this early on? Committing to working on Eternity's world after the first game is released is one thing, but actually confirming an expansion pack and giving an approximate release date seems premature. Again, I think it's the kind of decision that should be made much later on once the game is finished / near finished. That seems the more natural time to be thinking about expansion packs and sequels.

 

Anyway, I don't want to make it sound like i'm complaining too much. Like I said, i'm very happy they're going down the proper expansion pack route instead of small DLC.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Piccolo

[Wirdjos]

I'm not sure if I find this update exciting or disappointing. I was always hoping for this to be a franchise, so the idea of an old school expansion is a great one. However, it seems a little soon and I do wonder where the money's coming from. Have I missed the answer to that one? Apparently they are just going to fund this as a company? So does that mean they're going over to a publisher? Part of the appeal of this project, at least for me, was the fact that a publisher wasn't involved. It also seems like adding on the expansion kills any chance of a continued Paypal with reward tiers which means I'm stuck at my current tier.

 

So many questions. Whatever the answers, I would really like the next update to focus on how the closing of the kickstarter is going to be handled.

 

These have been answered. The Kickstarter funds goes to the base game. When the expansion is released, you buy the expansion. Only a very small amount of people will get the expansion for free for pledging a high amount of money to the base game as a thank you.

 

Sorry. I saw the Feargus posts, I just didn't quite get it. I'm realizing more and more that I have no idea how the game industry is run. Thanks for looking into it, Madzookeeper and thank you for being patient with me. I believe I had a bit of a panic there.

[Madzookeeper]

I'm sure you're right about there being plenty of ideas they can't fit into the game for whatever reason, but how can they know that for certain this early on? Committing to working on Eternity's world after the first game is released is one thing, but actually confirming an expansion pack and giving an approximate release date seems premature. Again, I think it's the kind of decision that should be made much later on once the game is finished / near finished. That seems the more natural time to be thinking about expansion packs and sequels.

 

Anyway, I don't want to make it sound like i'm complaining too much. Like I said, i'm very happy they're going down the proper expansion pack route instead of small DLC.

 

when talking about possible stretch goals a few days ago, feargus said that they'd had a few ideas that they knew they just couldn't do, or would require the kind of stretch goal that they just couldn't reach. pipe dreams, if you will. my money is that one, or a few of those, are what they're planning on doing the expansion with. and sense they'll already have most of the art/scripting/etc done, they know it's going to be mainly writing that is going to take to get this done. and considering that they've done more than a few expansion packs (i can think of at least four), they have a pretty decent idea of how long it'll take to get it done before hand, especially if they know the scope and so forth of wha they're doing already. could it be delayed? sure. could there be problems? yep. but they know enough to know how to do this.

[Madzookeeper]

I'm not sure if I find this update exciting or disappointing. I was always hoping for this to be a franchise, so the idea of an old school expansion is a great one. However, it seems a little soon and I do wonder where the money's coming from. Have I missed the answer to that one? Apparently they are just going to fund this as a company? So does that mean they're going over to a publisher? Part of the appeal of this project, at least for me, was the fact that a publisher wasn't involved. It also seems like adding on the expansion kills any chance of a continued Paypal with reward tiers which means I'm stuck at my current tier.

 

So many questions. Whatever the answers, I would really like the next update to focus on how the closing of the kickstarter is going to be handled.

 

These have been answered. The Kickstarter funds goes to the base game. When the expansion is released, you buy the expansion. Only a very small amount of people will get the expansion for free for pledging a high amount of money to the base game as a thank you.

 

Sorry. I saw the Feargus posts, I just didn't quite get it. I'm realizing more and more that I have no idea how the game industry is run. Thanks for looking into it, Madzookeeper and thank you for being patient with me. I believe I had a bit of a panic there.

 

no worries. you've been a lot more reasonable than more than a few reactions i've seen today. and you're welcome for looking into that.

[Shades]

Trister - Obsidian Order Master Wetboy 4 minutes ago

 

@ feargus

ah, so very, very close! hopefully within the next couple of hours. certainly before the end of the night.

i have two questions for you from the forums.

1. how will the physical version of the game be patched? will there be an auto-patcher, or updater like with NWN2? or will it be something that we'll have to check for at times?

2. what happened to the second digital copy of the game at the 250 and 500 tier levels? did it get changed into the expansion?

 

 

 

 

Creator Obsidian Entertainment 2 minutes ago

 

@Tristen

(1) That is a good question. If you are not using Steam, it will most likely need to be a download. We have been talking about updating the front page of the game with news, but we know some people don't want their game connected to the internets at all.

(2) I need to look into that, tbh - I'm not sure which was the mistake right now. Adding them or removing them. Sorry.

 

 

So they are looking at those two things. and it you will be able to get patches for non-steam versions of the game.

 

I only noticed the 2 digital versions of the game at the $250 level recently. At first I thought, what am I going to do with two digital versions of the game, as well as the physical one? One I can use for gog so I have a nice backup, but the second... Then I later realized that I could use the second digital version to grab a steam version too. Sure I don't like steam and wouldn't install that version, but it adds to my poor little list of steam games So I'd like to politely request that we still get 2 digital versions in this tier, if only to satisfy my odd collecting tendencies.

 

Very happy with this update though. I already have Wasteland 2 coming my way so that doesn't make any difference to me, but the expansion... To me that indicates that they think this will be successful, which is a great thing. And as for working on it too early? I think it can help a lot to be thinking of these things while the main game is still being made (or before), it means that things can be woven together better, and as someone else mentioned things that cross over between the two can be used. It just makes a lot of sense to me and I'm thrilled that it looks like PE will extend beyond this first game. I'll probably end up buying a physical copy of the expansion if they have one as well anyway.

 

I"m not sure about expansion add-ons, seems like it would be a bit of a hassle and I took the inclusion of the expansion in the higher tiers to be a kind of thank you for contributing so much. And it isn't like the expansion will only be for the people on these tiers in the end. It will be available for everyone and probably have some sort of pre-order of its own at some later point too. At the moment putting add-ons for it seems like it would just eat away at the potential profit of the expansion.

 

I do think a $190 or $200 physical tier that just has the expansion popped in sounds like a good idea though for those who don't want to go digital only and can't afford the $250.

 

Lower level tier incentives sound good too, but I'm just not sure what else they could add to those that would get people to up their pledges (physical soundtrack? More digital rewards?).

 

 

I'm sure you're right about there being plenty of ideas they can't fit into the game for whatever reason, but how can they know that for certain this early on? Committing to working on Eternity's world after the first game is released is one thing, but actually confirming an expansion pack and giving an approximate release date seems premature. Again, I think it's the kind of decision that should be made much later on once the game is finished / near finished. That seems the more natural time to be thinking about expansion packs and sequels.

 

Anyway, I don't want to make it sound like i'm complaining too much. Like I said, i'm very happy they're going down the proper expansion pack route instead of small DLC.

 

Put it this way, Obsidian is a decently sized company that have made a number of games and expansion packs over the years. I think they know what they're doing by now I trust that they know enough about game development to not go in over their heads and promise things that they can't deliver on.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Shades

[Madzookeeper]

anyone wanting a direct quote about money for the expansion, here you go:

 

@Bootsy 81 We are going to fund it ourselves and from the sales we get from project eternity when it comes available- not from the Kickstater funds. I don't think we will do a Kickstater just for it, I'd rather see about funding the sequel that way - if you guys will still have us.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Madzookeeper

[rjshae]

Hurts... eyes... must look away...

[Madzookeeper]

that help a bit?