Environmental Interaction and Effects

[Crusty]

I was reading Tim Cain's Q&A on Reddit today and this quote stuck out in particular:

 

DTKT asks...

Are you guys designing some of the abilities/spells to be used in synergy with other spells? AKA, a grease spell and a fireball?

 

Yes! We love abilities (including spells) that leave side effects on the target that subsequent abilities can take advantage of. So we may give you an attack that has a chance to stun a target, and another attack that does extra damage on stunned targets. Or you have a spell that catches targets on fire, and another that causes explosions on burning targets. These abilities work fine on their own, but when you learn the combinations, you will be much more effective.

 

It got me thinking, well, maybe spells can combine, but what about with the maps and environment?

 

I'm not necessarily talking about Silent Storm level of destructible environment, but wouldn't it be fun if the environment played an effect in how you played the game and you could use your abilities/spells to manipulate it for better or worse?

 

What if you were in a mountainous region of the gameworld? Temperatures are freezing cold, the wind chilly and the snow becoming more and more bothersome. It stands to reason that your party (and any enemies) would have to deal with the environment as much as each other and plan accordingly.

 

Fire spells become ineffective, frost spells become more deadly. Fatigue wastes away much quicker, movement speed is slower and abilities that focus on conservation of movement/energy become much more useful.

 

Beyond environmental effects, there's also potential for having environments that interact better with certain types of souls, as well as having environmental interaction have involvement in combat and puzzles. Using physical abilities to demolish small fences and walls, hurting enemies on the other side and/or creating tactical openings.

 

Using fire spells to clear thick shrubs and vines in a forest and discovering a secret path, etc etc.

 

It's not high up on my list of priorities, but I think it would be a very enjoyable and interesting aspect to add to the game.

 

Any thoughts?

[Osvir]

I've got to be honest, I was expecting something else reading the title (Some more Magic ideas) but this... this is fantastic :D

 

EDIT: Just so I get it right, in a sense the survivalists battle against nature?

Edited October 6, 2012 by Osvir

[rjshae]

Since the view is always isomorphic and downward facing, it would be nice to have a time indicator panel that also showed the weather conditions, including something to say whether it's hot or cold. (Pretty sky pictures with moving clouds are a plus.) A well-done implementation would allow skilled players to guess the pending weather conditions and try to take shelter before a big storm hit. It would also be realistic if the fog of war was impacted by the weather; heavy rain, thick fog, or night should make it much more difficult to map the area.

[Nonek]

I remember having to buy furs and wrap up when you went north in the Serpent Isle, great idea.

[Crusty]

I've got to be honest, I was expecting something else reading the title (Some more Magic ideas) but this... this is fantastic :D

 

EDIT: Just so I get it right, in a sense the survivalists battle against nature?

 

Basically, yes.

 

My suggestions speak to two different things. The first is that certain types of environments would place burdens (or benefits) on all actors (party and NPCs) in a way that makes sense and adds for variety of gameplay experience. I'm not talking specifically about dynamic weather, although that would be nice too. rjshae's idea of having weather conditions affect things like FoW is also an element that comes to mind. Perhaps not as in weather, but a marsh or swamp area would be damp, dark and foggy. That would certainly influence FoW/LoS.

 

If you're going to scale PE's version of Mt. Everest, you ought to prepare accordingly.

 

The second suggestion is to implement some level of destructible and interactive environment. This would help broaden party tactics and encourage thinking that is less direct and more "out of the box". Destructible environments could also play a role in puzzles and exploration, hence my example about burning thick vines and discovering a secret path in the forest.

 

Now I don't think both ideas are likely to make it in, or are a necessary addition, the first idea could comfortably be put into Expert Mode instead of something all players should have to deal with. But I do think both ideas would make the game more enjoyable.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Crusty

[NerdBoner]

I won't be funding unless I have to make a saving throw each time I take a step without looking.

 

/puristelitistfascistrpgnerd

 

 

 

edit: i'll remind ye brethren that old school crpg and "destructible environments" aren't exactly synergistic...

Edited October 7, 2012 by NerdBoner

[moridin84]

I think it would be more annoying then anything else.

 

It wasn't in the old games either.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

If this could be implemented efficiently and effectively, I would jump for joy. Having to take the environment of areas into consideration instead of just barreling through without any consideration would be quite nice.

[Tamerlane]

 

'Sup.

[Crusty]

I think it would be more annoying then anything else.

 

It wasn't in the old games either.

 

It could be put in the Expert Mode as an optional feature. Besides, Obsidian isn't planning to do a 1:1 replication of the IE games. You only have to look at the Cooldowns debate to see that.

 

I won't be funding unless I have to make a saving throw each time I take a step without looking.

 

/puristelitistfascistrpgnerd

 

 

 

edit: i'll remind ye brethren that old school crpg and "destructible environments" aren't exactly synergistic...

 

r00fles!

Edited October 7, 2012 by Crusty

[NerdBoner]

 

'Sup.

meh, looks like we got ourselves a Call o' Doody tard here boys...

[NerdBoner]

While it seems like you've maxed out your snark skill, you've used reading comprehension as a dump stat. What a shame.

not at all...i just don't think what you're proposing is entirely feasible in a game of this scale.

 

We have poor bastards still begging for Paladins and Barbarians seem like an almost impossible stretch goal right now.

 

what you're suggesting may be implemented whenever a main plot point requires it but just having it in ordinary gameplay is kind of wishful thinking at this point.

 

not to say i wouldn't like it.

Edited October 7, 2012 by NerdBoner

[moridin84]

I think it would be more annoying then anything else.

 

It wasn't in the old games either.

 

It could be put in the Expert Mode as an optional feature. Besides, Obsidian isn't planning to do a 1:1 replication of the IE games. You only have to look at the Cooldowns debate to see that.

True but most of the things they are adding/changing tends to be improvements that makes things more fun. This doesn't qualify.

 

 

And... lets all ignore the XCOM: RPG NOT KNOWN screenshot.

[Tamerlane]

Ignoring X-Com is a great way to get your face eaten off by a crab-man who then lays eggs in your hollowed-out chest.

[Sensuki]

Since the backgrounds will be mostly pre-rendered, it would either have to be status-based or to do with the 3d objects.

[Osvir]

If you're going to scale PE's version of Mt. Everest, you ought to prepare accordingly.

 

The second suggestion is to implement some level of destructible and interactive environment. This would help broaden party tactics and encourage thinking that is less direct and more "out of the box". Destructible environments could also play a role in puzzles and exploration, hence my example about burning thick vines and discovering a secret path in the forest.

 

Now I don't think both ideas are likely to make it in, or are a necessary addition, the first idea could comfortably be put into Expert Mode instead of something all players should have to deal with. But I do think both ideas would make the game more enjoyable.

 

As I recall it in Diablo III there were some destructible environment you could make toppling it on the enemies. I don't know why but, it feels like that is always the solution in the games somehow. I do enjoy it, but it also shows me about how far the developer's are at. People ask for destructible environments and that's what they come up with.

 

It was also much more present in Act 1 than in any other of the acts which brings me to the only conclusion that destructible environment is time consuming to create.

 

(X-Com picture was here)

*Scroll the thread I'm sure yu'll find it, if you're interested

 

'Sup.

 

I only heard about this game like last year, bought it and playing it on Steam. It's a great game. Well, when you start to understand it (rather quick learning curve in my opinion, but at the same time kind of steep too. It felt a little bit trial and error (I think I played like... 5-6 times before I figured out how to play it).

Edited October 7, 2012 by Osvir

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I know they're using Unity as their engine, but I've seen in the new UDK and another engine out there they have the tech to create destructible objects now. Previously this was a ton of work for artists and texture artists but now it's not much extra work. Like I said I'm not sure if Unity supports this tech, but it should be possible to add this in game. I think it would be a fantastic feature.

[Luridis]

I would love to see daytime, night time and weather effects. One of my favorite moments in Daggerfall was when I went into te city at night the first time and was creeped out by the restless spirit of King Lysandus.

[GhostofAnakin]

Environmental effects could be hell with friendly fire on. Imagine a room full of gas (or whatever other flammable object), your mage gets the bright idea to toss down a fireball, and ignites the entire room -- your party included -- on fire.