Turkey asks parliament to authorise military action in Syria immediately

[Humodour]

Pretty surreal stuff. Assad's government seems to have shelled a Turkish town, killed 2 women and 3 girls. Turkey then launched bombs from within its own territory to land on multiple military targets in Syria. NATO has called an emergency meeting. NATO supports Turkey's response.

 

And now Turkey is asking its parliament to authorise its military units to enter Syria.

 

Personally I would be happy with the chance of one less dictator in the world considering that 'one less dictator' is killing, raping, and torturing more civilians, continually, than even Western collateral damage from intervention would.

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=162200664

[Gorth]

Please tell me that you don't believe for a second that this has anything to do with Syria and everything to do with Turkey going after Kurdish separatists?

[Humodour]

Please tell me that you don't believe for a second that this has anything to do with Syria and everything to do with Turkey going after Kurdish separatists?

 

I guess we'll see when we get independent verification of what they bombed in Syria, now won't we? If they bombed Assad regime targets, which seems to have been the case, then I'm going to doubt that they're going after Kurdish militants.

 

Don't get me wrong - I can entirely see how Turkey could go after Kurdish militants as a secondary result of being able to enter Syria, but it has to make good on its action against Syria being defensive in nature if it wants to do that. I.e. it has to take out the Assad regime - a notion which the majority of the world now comfortably supports given that Syria hasn't stopped its brutality against civilians.

 

And even if it does go after Kurdish militants, it's going to have to be pretty selective about it: taking out Osama Bin Laden level leaders and leaving the rest to fall apart into chaos. Because people will watch intensely (due to the extreme volatility of the entire region), and Turkey is trying very hard to improve its image, not taint it with massacres against minorities.

 

For the record: I don't know enough about the tension between the Kurdish minority in Turkey and Turks to feel strongly about either side. I do know that both sides feel strongly about each other, though.

[obyknven]

Looks like Gleiwitz incident.

http://en.wikipedia....eration_Himmler

http://en.wikipedia....eiwitz_incident

 

Syria’s approximately 1.7 million Kurds, nearly 10 percent of the population. They prepare 15,000 soldiers to protect the Kurdish areas.  All young Kurds prepare themselves to join up and protect their motherland.

if the Turks want invade Syria, they must invade independent Syrian Kurdistan first.

Meanwhile Kurds formed approximately 18% of the population in Turkey (approximately 14 million) in 2008. This estimate however does not include the Zaza people which are often considered to be Kurds. One Western source estimates that up to 25% of the Turkish population is Kurdish (approximately 18-19 million people). Kurdish sources claim there are as many as 20 or 25 million Kurds in Turkey. We can expect nice bloodbath there.

 

Blood for the blod god!

[BruceVC]

Please tell me that you don't believe for a second that this has anything to do with Syria and everything to do with Turkey going after Kurdish separatists?

 

Its got to do with several things and Turkeys interest in going after Kurdish separatists is part of it but its small part. In my opinion

• Turkey is concerned with the 50000 Syrian refugees that are now living within Turkey. With Assad gone they can return home, these refugees are both a political and financial strain on Turkey
  
• Turkey does feel a moral responsibility to how Assad has been treating his own people. This is something we should be supporting and welcoming. Its not often that countries outside of the usual suspects(USA, Britain , France for example) are prepared to militarily intervene in an internal conflict. They also have support from NATO
  
• Finally Turkey truly is a rising power in the region both economically and politically. This is about there hegemony and influence in the area and showing the world that they can intervene where another government is clearly doing something wrong. I firmly believe that there is a real case for regime change throughout the world where governments are just despots or are prepared to use the might of there own military to suppress there own citizens political protests. Of course it needs to be done correctly with the right intention. Iraq was an example of how it mustn't be done, and Libya is an example of how it can be done
  

Edited October 4, 2012 by BruceVC

[Morgoth]

...and so WW3 slowly unfolds to another step before we have the big "Archduke Ferdinand" moment that will unleash the real big fireworks.

[Humodour]

Hopefully not.

[BruceVC]

...and so WW3 slowly unfolds to another step before we have the big "Archduke Ferdinand" moment that will unleash the real big fireworks.

 

Not at all, its about time that another country intervened militarily against Assad and his brutal clampdown against the Syrian rebels . Unfortunately the likes of the USA and Britain can't act because Russia and China keep vetoing any military action in there role as permanent members of the UN Security council. But if Syria keeps on attacking Turkey by accident, this is the second time as a Turkish plane was shot down few weeks ago , then Turkey will act and they will be justified as the question is "how long does a country keep allowing "accidental " aggression against itself "

 

 

This won't be a huge conflict as there is no way China or Russia would send troops to assist Syria as the Turkish actions would be justified . You already have a support from several countries aiding the Syrian rebels by sending supplies. The only intervention we won't see is UN endorsed actions due to reason I mentioned. So you won't see another Libya conflict or some kind of "no-fly" zone enforced by certain member states

[BruceVC]

I see that Syria has now apologized for this accidental attack. This should defuse the tension, I wonder if Turkey will accept it ?

[Blarghagh]

"Sorry we threw a bomb at your citizens. Our bad!"

[Humodour]

"Sorry we threw a bomb at your citizens. Our bad!"

 

More like "Sorry we threw a bomb at your civilians yet again. Our bad!"

[HoonDing]

"Sorry we threw a bomb at your citizens. Our bad!"

That's what the NATO said after 'accidentally' bombing the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

[Blarghagh]

And it was indefensible and ridiculous then too.

[obyknven]

Turkish Parliament authorizes military operations in Syria.

http://www.newser.co...s-in-syria.html

 

Let the War begin!

[NOK222]

Well, better keep my ears open for any possible deployments.

[obyknven]

#savasahayir (In Turkish, "No to War") is a worldwide trending topic on Twitter. And thousands of people are now marching in Taksim, Istanbul, to oppose a military intervention.

 

http://istanbulian.b...vade-syria.html

 

http://onedio.com/ha...eydani-na/29824

[Zoraptor]

But if Syria keeps on attacking Turkey by accident, this is the second time as a Turkish plane was shot down few weeks ago

The Turkish plane was within Syrian air space and thus fair game, despite all the obfuscation and posturing associated with the event. That was tacitly admitted when the Turks found the plane within Syrian territorial waters, though that particular fact never really got reported much, for some reason.

[Meshugger]

Until Turkey asks for (and get) NATO support, i suspect that this will end as a local conflict.

[Humodour]

But if Syria keeps on attacking Turkey by accident, this is the second time as a Turkish plane was shot down few weeks ago

The Turkish plane was within Syrian air space and thus fair game, despite all the obfuscation and posturing associated with the event. That was tacitly admitted when the Turks found the plane within Syrian territorial waters, though that particular fact never really got reported much, for some reason.

 

But why did they shoot down a Turkish plane at all?

[Malcador]

Probably because it was in their air space ?

[BruceVC]

But if Syria keeps on attacking Turkey by accident, this is the second time as a Turkish plane was shot down few weeks ago

The Turkish plane was within Syrian air space and thus fair game, despite all the obfuscation and posturing associated with the event. That was tacitly admitted when the Turks found the plane within Syrian territorial waters, though that particular fact never really got reported much, for some reason.

 

This point is in contention. Please provide the link where Turkey admits the plane was in Syrian territory, even yesterday the Turkish ambassador to the UK mentioned that Syrians unlawfully shot down a Turkish plane?

[Gorth]

This point is in contention. Please provide the link where Turkey admits the plane was in Syrian territory, even yesterday the Turkish ambassador to the UK mentioned that Syrians unlawfully shot down a Turkish plane?

I suspect that the Turkish ambassador might be a bit biased. Would have had more credibility if it had come from the Syrian ambassador

 

For all their posturing, the Turkish military had trouble explaining why the wreckage was found in Syrian waters.

 

[BruceVC]

This point is in contention. Please provide the link where Turkey admits the plane was in Syrian territory, even yesterday the Turkish ambassador to the UK mentioned that Syrians unlawfully shot down a Turkish plane?

I suspect that the Turkish ambassador might be a bit biased. Would have had more credibility if it had come from the Syrian ambassador

 

For all their posturing, the Turkish military had trouble explaining why the wreckage was found in Syrian waters.

 

I hear you, another issue I have with the Syrians shooting down the Turkish plane is why be so provocative? There have been many cases in history where planes have strayed into the territory of other nations and those planes were not shot down. So what games are the Syrians playing that they are prepared to risk war with Turkey, yet they are quick to apologize and say it won't happen again?

[Gorth]

Just a guess (as in sheer speculation), but when you are in a state of war and a civil war at that, it wouldn't be a stretch of imagination that this fighter jet appearing your coastal installations and not being identifiable as friendly, it could have been your own renegade military personnel with an agenda. A number of high ranking officers had just defected at the time.

[Zoraptor]

This point is in contention. Please provide the link where Turkey admits the plane was in Syrian territory, even yesterday the Turkish ambassador to the UK mentioned that Syrians unlawfully shot down a Turkish plane?

They've admitted the plane crashed in Syrian waters and their story really doesn't make any sense- as if their plane was in international airspace and heading away there is no likely way it could crash in Syrian waters; physics/ inertia and avoidance tactics say that it should only get further away from Syria, not closer. There've also been media reports in Turkey suggesting that the turkish military is incorrect in its version.

 

The Syrians claim they shot it down with AAA, ie basically a very big machine gun, and a short range weapon. That would actually fit where the plane was found better than Turkey's version, and give a reason why they fired (ie it was so close as to be considered an imminent threat).