The Monk Class

[LadyCrimson]

If he has a dagger LadyCrimson, surely it would make more sense to channel said energy into that? It think it would do more damage to someone's head than a fist.

To me that would depend on the design and purpose of the spell. Magic is fantasy after all ... it doesn't have real-world limitations re: whether or not sharp/blunt/flesh makes the spell have more destructive force.

[Aedelric]

Cipher's I am fine with, nice concept.

 

If you could run and hit at supernatural speeds, why would you not wear leather or at the least a padded tunic? For that matter why not charge your dagger with spiritual energy and not your fists? The kung-fu monk is a flawed concept that demeans the other classes by proving they do not need a bow or gun or sword or plate or a spell book.

[Aedelric]

don't try put logic into this, they like it and it's going to be in the game

Indeed it will.

 

Logic is what changed Cadegund's breast plate, so thinking logically is important to the team. As for changing Obsidians minds, this topic is not to force that, just to point out some alternatives and opinions of various people on the subject.

 

Edit - sorry about the double post.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Aedelric

[NOK222]

Ok, but don't think of this as Kung-Fu monks when I and a few other people have pointed out that martial arts isn't a strictly asian thing.

[NerdBoner]

Cipher's I am fine with, nice concept.

 

If you could run and hit at supernatural speeds, why would you not wear leather or at the least a padded tunic? For that matter why not charge your dagger with spiritual energy and not your fists? The kung-fu monk is a flawed concept that demeans the other classes by proving they do not need a bow or gun or sword or plate or a spell book.

maybe they are a religious sect that vows not to own property but through some historical incident needed to take up "arms" for their god?

 

either way i'm not against the idea...i'm sure the class will be philosophically justified as well as fit in story wise.

[Aedelric]

You are right Nkkkk, each culture in the world has its own form of close combat fighting, but that still does not addess the fist vs gun dilemma better.

 

You are also right Nerd, perhaps we will have a philosophical justification that fits the story, Obsidian are good writers I am sure they could do it. Though I would prefer they just drop the flawed stereotyped monk concept entirely and approach it from a completely new and original angle.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Aedelric

[NOK222]

To me, Monks are boring anyways, I'm going Cipher.

 

But people like monks, so let them have the choice.

[Nonek]

I think that it has got to be done from a philosophical standpoint, the monk rejects weapons, he spurns armour and insists that he should suffice whatever the situation. Perhaps a seeker of physical, mental and spiritual oneness, who strives for perfection in each aspect of his being. Personally i'd liked to see him with light armour or perhaps sensible stout peasant clothing, modest and unassuming so that he might seem like an ordinary individual.

[NerdBoner]

yeah, i'll probably play monks looooong after i've play tested Rogues, Cyphers, the 3 other warrior classes and the wizard...it'll probably be the class i play just before the priest (bleh)

[Knott]

I'm quite sure that Monks will be just as vulnerable to bullets as Wizards who use barriers.

 

Its very hinted to that the game balance for guns is that they are really slow and sluggish, but each successful hit will be devestating.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Knott

[IchigoRXC]

I think Monks could be used as a spiritual and godly class, using soul based aura's for deflection and defence and then shattering them in a flurry of attacks. Basically you build up a defence to keep yourself alive in this harsh environment and then turn your defence to offence, leaving yourself vulnerable but dealing much more damage.

[Vaeliorin]

I have to admit, I hope that monks are expert staff fighters. I like staff fighters conceptually, but I don't think I've ever encountered a game where a staff was a decent weapon for a melee class, which seems strange to me.

[nikolokolus]

It's ultimately pretty hard to divorce the iconic image of the Shaolin monk Caine from Kung-fu, wandering the wilderness, seeking adventures -- As that was almost certainly the inspiration behind the monk class in the 1st ed. AD&D books that Gygax released in '78 -- but that doesn't mean that the lore in this world has to come from that same well spring. Maybe it's miplaced, but I have faith that there will be some lore-sensible reason for monastic ascetics, who like to punch birch wood boards with their knuckles.

Edited October 4, 2012 by nikolokolus

[DCParry]

It's a different world, so different rules apply. The Greeks had martial arts -- pankration -- as early as 648 BC. Legend has it the art was practiced by Greek soldiers. There's no reason that couldn't have later developed into a creed of religious aestheticism during a dark age; particularly one in which peasants were not allowed to carry weapons used by a knight. Hence it is feasible for use with a Western-type fantasy setting. But some name changes, for both monkish weapons and powers, would perhaps be fitting.

 

Just so you know, this is crap. The pankration was a sport, not a combat technique. It can be argued (not very convincingly in my mind) that it developed from some sort of combat training, but besides any secondary benefits of general fitness it was of absolutely no use in warfare. In addition, it was sport that in effect was not widely practiced, and wouldn't have been by the majority of individuals who would serve as soldiers in armed conflicts (and remember, the Spartans were an anomaly, having a captive slave population so they could roll around in the gymnasium all day not farming and such - in addition, their advantage was often more "ideological" than "physical" on the battle ground). Unfortunately most of my library is in storage right now, but if you are interested I would look at Kyle, Sport and Spectacle in the Ancient World (2006) (generally the best and easiest accessible work). Also take a look at Stephen Miller, Ancient Greek Athletic (2004). Poliakoff is a bit myopic in his approach, not taking into enough account, in my opinion at least, social and cultural influences on development, which may just be a by product of his narrow focus on combat sports.

[Kage Tempest]

I think the real question we should be asking ourselves in relation to this topic is this: What exactly is a "monk"? Westerinized media / tropes puts a lot of emphasis on the fighting, the physical perfection combined with the mental focus. Inevitably, since this is a game from which half of its bread and butter is indeed combat, we may think they are very adept martial artists that uses their inner strength/chi/spiritual energy/whatever else you want to call discipline but what about the aspects of what monks are about mental training, knowledge, and self reflection?

 

Given the emphasis on souls in this game, I think Monks may end up being some sort of Gish like class with a greater focus on the spiritual aspects and soul manipulation through themselves as the conduit and beneficiary of their power over their soul.

[DCParry]

Also on topic -

 

FLAMING FIST SMASH ZOMBIE FACE!

 

Love the new wallpaper.

[NOK222]

Naginatas should be a weapon used by this class as well.

[elenuial]

"Other cultures made weaponless fighting styles so Monks are not Asian" & "Naginatas should be a weapon used by this class as well"

 

That should probably speak for itself, but in case it doesnt:

 

If I had my druthers, the monk class would get tossed out of most western fantasy rpgs, though I'd love to see more rpgs that root the whole world in other cultures more firmly, rather than borrowing some stereotypes. A Chinese kung fu rpg? I would SO get behind that. Especially if they allowed the "Awkwardly Plate Mailed White Guy" as a class. Let the players choose, right?

[Shevek]

I like asian kung fu monks. Saying asian kung fu monks are over done is like saying european knights in armor are over done.

[Bill Gates' Son]

I like asian kung fu monks. Saying asian kung fu monks are over done is like saying european knights in armor are over done.

 

I just think many people on this forum are bias to the whole European medieval culture thing, since many people here are from Europe. I can't blame them either, since it's an awesome setting to be proud of.

 

I welcome diversity in this game. I really hope they showcase a whole bunch of other cultures in this game from the Late Middle ages.

 

And yeah, maybe I'm a bit bias on seeing an Asian monk since I live in Asian country.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Bill Gates' Son

[Hypevosa]

I'm all for a warrior whose body becomes his +5 armor and whose fists become epic weapons of reckoning. They lose all chance of gear leading to them having more interesting battle choices if they forego weapons and armor - no fire resistant armor, no weapons that use an element an enemy is weak to, etc. If they're done well and in a still fun way where being a hand to hand focused warrior or barbarian isn't better (like it is arguably in D&D with the right builds) then they only add to the game in my book.

[elenuial]

One possibility is to use tattoos like in PS:T.

 

And yeah, maybe I'm a bit bias on seeing an Asian monk since I live in Asian country.

 

Conversely, I live in an Asian country, and so I really DON'T want to see kung fu monks (but would love to see actual Asian culture depicted in a non-stereotyped exoticized-for-Westerners way). ;P

[zlarm]

The main thing is that monks need to be differentiated from fighters and clerics. While that doesn't automatically mean they have to do kung fu, having them unable to wear most armours and focus on completely different weapons then fighters and priests (along with unique special abilities) goes a long way in fulfilling that goal. Kung fu also helps in that regard.

[nikolokolus]

Well, whatever happens they need to be given the quivering palm

[NerdBoner]

One possibility is to use tattoos like in PS:T.

 

And yeah, maybe I'm a bit bias on seeing an Asian monk since I live in Asian country.

 

Conversely, I live in an Asian country, and so I really DON'T want to see kung fu monks (but would love to see actual Asian culture depicted in a non-stereotyped exoticized-for-Westerners way). ;P

Jade empire is really the only western RPG i can think of based in an eastern fantasy setting...its a pretty underrated game IMO.