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Hypevosa

Proposal for a new Rest Button

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I propose the following system for the rest button:

 

If you can rest where you are, you will rest there (simple enough). However, if you cannot, for whatever reason, the following occurs:

 

1. The game plays in fast forward, your party moving to the last safe resting area.

2. Upon reaching that safe resting area, it rests.

3. Upon waking, the game plays in fast forward until the party returns to the original positions you pressed the rest button in.

 

If at any point the game encounters hostiles or a game pausing situation (like Elminster coming to talk to you), the game hands you control again.

 

This way we have a rest button that does not waste player time unnecessarily with long walks, but also allows for random encounters to happen between getting to the rest area and returning to your current location.

 

Resting is also limited to once every 8 hours minimum

Edited by Hypevosa

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It's a cute idea, but way too complex and overwrought for the problem it's meant to solve.

Edited by Infinitron

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It's a cute idea, but way too complex and overwrought for the problem it's meant to solve.

 

I'm trying to remember what game it was where the game could play itself in fast forward and already did essentially this. It's been done before, and isn't more complex than making the game refresh faster while storing the last safe resting coordinates and then telling the party characters to go there.

 

It's simple in theory, and it has its advantages.

 

 

Why not simply have that you can rest only every a minimum X of hours?

If I just woke up 2 hours ago, I seriously doubt that I could sleep another 8 full hours.

 

That too, added it in.

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It's a cute idea, but way too complex and overwrought for the problem it's meant to solve.

 

I'm trying to remember what game it was where the game could play itself in fast forward and already did essentially this. It's been done before, and isn't more complex than making the game refresh faster while storing the last safe resting coordinates and then telling the party characters to go there.

 

It's simple in theory, and it has its advantages.

 

 

In theory, yes.

 

In practice, you may be asking the game developers to add support for speeding up and slowing down the game just to support this feature. And then there's the issue of pathfinding.

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It's a cute idea, but way too complex and overwrought for the problem it's meant to solve.

 

I'm trying to remember what game it was where the game could play itself in fast forward and already did essentially this. It's been done before, and isn't more complex than making the game refresh faster while storing the last safe resting coordinates and then telling the party characters to go there.

 

It's simple in theory, and it has its advantages.

 

 

In theory, yes.

 

In practice, you may be asking the game developers to add support for speeding up and slowing down the game just to support this feature. And then there's the issue of pathfinding.

 

Altering the game's timer is something that is very elementary, you can even do so in BG from it's configuration menu by going to gameplay/miscilaneous and increasing the AI frame rate - it's kind of funny trying to play that way. If we're going to have click to go here pathfinding already, that's not something we really need to worry about either since it'll have to work before the game is playable anyways.

 

All the tools will already be there is what I'm saying. The only problem would be if someone's computer can't take the fast forward.

Edited by Hypevosa

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I don't think we should have resting in the game at all. We have it in DnD based PC games because of the whole spell memorization thing.

 

Or is there some other reason why resting should/is in games? And that require limitations.


. Well I was involved anyway. The dude who can't dance. 

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I don't think we should have resting in the game at all. We have it in DnD based PC games because of the whole spell memorization thing.

 

Or is there some other reason why resting should/is in games? And that require limitations.

 

Well, the idea that your adventurer never needs to rest at all and can just run around swinging swords and carrying 150lbs of gear all day long is kind of silly too. That and rest allows you to be vulnerable and in one spot for a long time, leading to fun ambushes and whatnot. Enemies fatiguing you so you need rest by draining your life energy too.

 

there are reasons besides spells to have rest.

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I don't think we should have resting in the game at all. We have it in DnD based PC games because of the whole spell memorization thing.

 

Or is there some other reason why resting should/is in games? And that require limitations.

Healing?

Or would you prefer autoregeneration?

Edited by DocDoomII

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I prefer the healers need to use spells to get everyone back up to speed. It makes fighting more intense.

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I don't think we should have resting in the game at all. We have it in DnD based PC games because of the whole spell memorization thing.

 

Or is there some other reason why resting should/is in games? And that require limitations.

Healing?

Or would you prefer auto regeneration?

Resting is no good for healing if you can only sleep every 8 hours or whatever right? And resting after every fight or every 3 fights is silly.

 

Still ...I'd rather not have auto generating health.

 

A better alternative would be healing kits. Healing kits being cheap while having a 10 second channel so it would be impractical to use in combat.

 

I prefer the healers need to use spells to get everyone back up to speed. It makes fighting more intense.

What if you don't have a healer?


. Well I was involved anyway. The dude who can't dance. 

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I don't think we should have resting in the game at all. We have it in DnD based PC games because of the whole spell memorization thing.

 

Or is there some other reason why resting should/is in games? And that require limitations.

Healing?

Or would you prefer auto regeneration?

Resting is no good for healing if you can only sleep every 8 hours or whatever right? And resting after every fight or every 3 fights is silly.

 

Still ...I'd rather not have auto generating health.

 

A better alternative would be healing kits. Healing kits being cheap while having a 10 second channel so it would be impractical to use in combat.

 

I prefer the healers need to use spells to get everyone back up to speed. It makes fighting more intense.

What if you don't have a healer?

 

not having a healer at all makes things fairly painful unless the healing potions flow like water.

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I propose the following system for the rest button:

 

If you can rest where you are, you will rest there (simple enough). However, if you cannot, for whatever reason, the following occurs:

 

1. The game plays in fast forward, your party moving to the last safe resting area.

2. Upon reaching that safe resting area, it rests.

3. Upon waking, the game plays in fast forward until the party returns to the original positions you pressed the rest button in.

 

If at any point the game encounters hostiles or a game pausing situation (like Elminster coming to talk to you), the game hands you control again.

 

This way we have a rest button that does not waste player time unnecessarily with long walks, but also allows for random encounters to happen between getting to the rest area and returning to your current location.

 

Resting is also limited to once every 8 hours minimum

 

What's the difference between this and being able to rest anywhere with the limitation of min 8h between rests and with the possibility to be interrupted? There is absolutely none, both systems achieve the same thing yours just adds a little more in game time which is irrelevant.

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I propose the following system for the rest button:

 

If you can rest where you are, you will rest there (simple enough). However, if you cannot, for whatever reason, the following occurs:

 

1. The game plays in fast forward, your party moving to the last safe resting area.

2. Upon reaching that safe resting area, it rests.

3. Upon waking, the game plays in fast forward until the party returns to the original positions you pressed the rest button in.

 

If at any point the game encounters hostiles or a game pausing situation (like Elminster coming to talk to you), the game hands you control again.

 

This way we have a rest button that does not waste player time unnecessarily with long walks, but also allows for random encounters to happen between getting to the rest area and returning to your current location.

 

Resting is also limited to once every 8 hours minimum

 

What's the difference between this and being able to rest anywhere with the limitation of min 8h between rests and with the possibility to be interrupted? There is absolutely none, both systems achieve the same thing yours just adds a little more in game time which is irrelevant.

 

The difference is having things that patrol and move about between you and your proposed resting area. Interrupting rest with an ambush is different than having enemies actively moving around a map and you risking running into them when you attempt to get to a safe sleep area. It's also the difference between the player going "yes, we will sleep in the dragon's lair 500 feet from where he's currently resting" and the rest of the party going "Screw that noise, I'm not going to set up camp here".

 

While the end result is the same, how you get there and what the implications are, are very different.

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OK my mistake I looked at it purely from mechanical standpoint. May I suggest a fancy animation or just a loading screen instead of fast forward (map traveling would remain the same) because it could be implemented easier and adds more to immersion IMO but this is a matter of preference.

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I propose the following system for the rest button:

 

If you can rest where you are, you will rest there (simple enough). However, if you cannot, for whatever reason, the following occurs:

 

1. The game plays in fast forward, your party moving to the last safe resting area.

2. Upon reaching that safe resting area, it rests.

3. Upon waking, the game plays in fast forward until the party returns to the original positions you pressed the rest button in.

 

If at any point the game encounters hostiles or a game pausing situation (like Elminster coming to talk to you), the game hands you control again.

 

This way we have a rest button that does not waste player time unnecessarily with long walks, but also allows for random encounters to happen between getting to the rest area and returning to your current location.

 

Resting is also limited to once every 8 hours minimum

 

What's the difference between this and being able to rest anywhere with the limitation of min 8h between rests and with the possibility to be interrupted? There is absolutely none, both systems achieve the same thing yours just adds a little more in game time which is irrelevant.

 

It's not irrelevant if you care about narrative. God forbid someone playing a game with a PS:T/MotB-ish story should care about narrative. But yes the results are the same. I say make easy resting an option. Players who like newer style combat can enable fast-resting. Players who like BG2 combat can leave it disabled.


JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

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OK my mistake I looked at it purely from mechanical standpoint. May I suggest a fancy animation or just a loading screen instead of fast forward (map traveling would remain the same) because it could be implemented easier and adds more to immersion IMO but this is a matter of preference.

 

Having the game run it in the background while showing a fancy screen would make it so PCs with lower specs wouldn't have to worry about if their computer could handle the fast forward I guess, my want to see fast forward is more just preference because I find it funny/neat.

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I don't mind the "autoretreat to last safe spot, rest, and return" feature, although I don't feel it is worth the likely cost to implement as written in the OP (unless the game is designed to ensure that something will happen when you retreat, the odds of something happening are close to nil).

 

I don't, however, support the "Can only rest every 8 game hours", unless the only gameplay effect of resting is that you must do it every 8 hours to avoid "fatigue" (that is only caused by not resting every 8 hours). No objection to including the "rest only every 8 hours" as a part of the part of the "Please hurt me lots" game mode that has been promised in the recent stretch goal, but all of the "normal" difficulty modes should allow sleep / rest / waiting at the player's discretion.

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I don't mind the "autoretreat to last safe spot, rest, and return" feature, although I don't feel it is worth the likely cost to implement as written in the OP (unless the game is designed to ensure that something will happen when you retreat, the odds of something happening are close to nil).

 

I don't, however, support the "Can only rest every 8 game hours", unless the only gameplay effect of resting is that you must do it every 8 hours to avoid "fatigue" (that is only caused by not resting every 8 hours). No objection to including the "rest only every 8 hours" as a part of the part of the "Please hurt me lots" game mode that has been promised in the recent stretch goal, but all of the "normal" difficulty modes should allow sleep / rest / waiting at the player's discretion.

We were referring about the sleep in IE games, where the 8 hours of rest would work as a reset for spells and abilities, even if they were the kind that worked once a day (it worked like this if I remember correctly).

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We were referring about the sleep in IE games, where the 8 hours of rest would work as a reset for spells and abilities, even if they were the kind that worked once a day (it worked like this if I remember correctly).

 

Yeap, understood. I don't support putting rest that is used to reset "N a day" spells / abilities to a real-time based cooldown system.

 

Note, however, that while Josh has stated that resting is in the game, he has not stated what mechanical benefits resting provides to the player. It is entirely possible that his vision for resting has nothing at all to do with spellcasting or healing. Thus, the caveat in my previous post.

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Ugh. Why do we need to rest again? I spent the 80's hitting the heal up button playing Champions of Krynn. Can't we get away from D&D now?

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If a withdraw-rest-return system is implemented, then you should still run a not insignificant risk of a random encounter at some point during the cycle. Otherwise it means that time doesn't matter.

 

Ugh. Why do we need to rest again? I spent the 80's hitting the heal up button playing Champions of Krynn. Can't we get away from D&D now?

Even if you don't need sleep for spell recovery, fatigue is still a factor in any game that takes the art of role-playing seriously.

Edited by rjshae

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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This game isn't a D&D game, so hopefully we can kill the rest button once and for all.

 

I thought Dragon Age's method of dealing with this was perfectly reasonable: when combat's over, everyone auto-heals. If you want to make it manual, rather than automated, I'm fine with non-combat healing potions, as long as they are *trvially easy* to find and use. I don't really see why that's any better than auto-heal, though.

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I don't think resting is going to be used in the way many people in this thread are thinking; or not only in that way. Resting can provide the opportunity to do several other things including brewing new potions, praying to gods for boons, fixing armor or weapons if we have degradation mechanics, etc.

 

People really need to start thinking beyond D&D and IE; I know its a common frame of reference, but PE should build upon those games.

 

That said, I don't like the OP's suggestion; it's a band-aid type of solution

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I think the story/roleplay options of having a rest/camp mechanic are fantastic. They introduce concepts such as dreams, ambushes, late-night liasons, camp visitors... the sky is the limit. Doing the Final Fantasy route of just heading to an inn to restore hit points and mana is incredibly diminishing.

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