Comment after reading KOTOR 2 exclusive, Devs read

[Fearless_Jedi]

Well I just got my Computer Gaming Monthly today and I read their exclusive on KOTOR 2.

 

I have to say I like what I heard from Obsidian and it looks like Obsidian is going to make a name of itself once this game comes out. Kudos to Obsidian.

 

Now here is my problem, the article says that Obsidian has an "if it ain't broke dont fix it" clause when it comes to the combat system, which makes sense cause the combat in KOTOR was fun. I have to say however that you cannot in any way break something like that, and even if it is good it can always be improved upon greatly. Not to mention that the older it is, the worse it gets.

 

But I will not whine about this decision, after all if you had to recreate a combat system then it wouldn't be set for release in Feb 2005, which I like. Any way the article said you are going to "vary" the attack animations so you dont see the same thing over and over which is a great idea, kudos to obsidian again. You will show your progression from padawan to master in the way you fight so the better you get the better your combat animations look, which again is an awesome idea.

 

Here is where I come in, I feel that the combat system never made KOTOR look as realistic as it could have, so I am simply going to suggest that the following be done to "enhance" the current system:

 

Dont make feats like flurry, critical hit, or power attack. For one, you never have enough feat points to master them all, and all of them except maybe flurry where useless.

 

Make combat, specifically lightsaber combat, seem more real-time instead of turn based, no matter how hard BioWare tried I could still see the "turn" part of there system which definitely took away from the experience.

 

Last, but most definitely not least, make feats that give you certain lightsaber styles--such as the one you see Malak using in KOTOR. I would also like to see a curved-hilt lightsaber style(which, of coarse, requires a lightsaber with a curved hilt) that you saw Dooku use in Episode 2, that by far is the coolest thing in all of Star Wars, in my opinion. I would also like to see Obsidian come up with their own special lightsaber styles.

 

You can do all of this without creating a new combat system, so at least give my ideas a thought. Other than those I have no other comments to make regarding this.

 

Anyway, good luck Obsidian, I know I wont be dissapointed.

 

PS: I am not sure how you feel about this but would you also comsider making the game moddable? Even without tools, or even a clue, KOTOR 1 has a huge modding community. And of coarse this would make more people buy your game....

[Aurora]

Dont make feats like flurry, critical hit, or power attack. For one, you never have enough feat points to master them all, and all of them except maybe flurry where useless.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You couldn't use more than one feat at a time, so it was *worthless* to master them all (guardians and soldiers probably had enough feats to do so, I never did). I didn't like power attack much, but flurry and the critical feats were nice enough.

[kumquatq3]

Well I just got my Computer Gaming Monthly

 

how was it different than the EGM article?

[Weiser_Cain]

Dont make feats like flurry, critical hit, or power attack. For one, you never have enough feat points to master them all, and all of them except maybe flurry where useless.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You couldn't use more than one feat at a time, so it was *worthless* to master them all (guardians and soldiers probably had enough feats to do so, I never did). I didn't like power attack much, but flurry and the critical feats were nice enough.

They each had their uses. I didn't like the animation for power attack, it was the most annoying peice of animation in the game for me(since I used it all the time and fliping around like a panzy when I'm trying to play a sober character was difficult).

[kefka]

The combat feats are kinda useless. I never take more than one level in any of them, usually flurry, and you get that for free as a scout. It served me well the entire game. I prefer to max out dueling, conditioning, and implants, than crit strike or power attack.

 

Make combat, specifically lightsaber combat, seem more real-time instead of turn based, no matter how hard BioWare tried I could still see the "turn" part of there system which definitely took away from the experience.

That is what I'd like to see, combat which flows and is a continuous fight. New animations will help here, even better if they're longer and more complex. Lightsaber styles that are unique to your character would be nice.

 

For example, the dueling feat could alter your stance, with your saber held 1-handed to allow for quick parries and flicks of the wrist. Dooku demonstrates this when he's backing up against Anakin's 2 lightsabers. His 1-handed defense blocked those attacks with ease. A style based on finesse than brute force...

 

There's plenty of inspiration to find in the "official" Jedi Fighting Styles, the 7 lightsaber forms. I don't think Obsidian should use these but it does show the possibilities.

 

Jedi Fighting Styles

[Klaumanic 4]

Make combat, specifically lightsaber combat, seem more real-time instead of turn based, no matter how hard BioWare tried I could still see the "turn" part of there system which definitely took away from the experience.

 

but that's the best part!!

[Phosphor]

cause the combat in KOTOR was fun.

 

Make combat, specifically lightsaber combat, seem more real-time instead of turn based, no matter how hard BioWare tried I could still see the "turn" part of there system which definitely took away from the experience.

Combat in KOTOR was fun? You have a strange sense of "fun".. Combat was one of the worst parts of the game, I thought.

And I'd like to add a big NO to the request of more real-time combat and less turn-based.

[Karzak]

Combat was one of the worst parts of the game

I agree, and it was 99% of the game.

 

And it will be the same in KotOR2.

[kefka]

And I'd like to add a big NO to the request of more real-time combat and less turn-based.

I think the idea is for turn-based combat that would look like realtime, visually. More animations per round might be all that's required to produce a cinematic feel.

[Opus131]

Combat was one of the worst parts of the game

I agree, and it was 99% of the game.

 

And it will be the same in KotOR2.

It will be the same, yes, as if Obsidian had any say on that, i'm sure Lucas Arts will vigilantly monitor Obsidian in order to avoid any divergence from a proven marketable formula...

[Silvermoon]

PS: I am not sure how you feel about this but would you also comsider making the game moddable? Even without tools, or even a clue, KOTOR 1 has a huge modding community. And of coarse this would make more people buy your game....

Obsidian has little, no, make that nothing, to say about that. Even if they proposed to make the game moddable, Lucas would say one word: "No"

 

Why exactly? Frankly, I have no clue, but somewhere along the line Lucas decided to take down anything that was modded and looked like one of their products (the only positive exception to that is Galactic Battlegrounds), probably to 'preserve the quality' of their franchises.

 

Just getting that PS out of the way, continue your discussion on combat now.

[Gorth]

Kefka sort of hit the mark there (IMO).

 

Combat shouldn't really be the core of the game, but if it's unavoidable, there are ways to make turnbased combat more fluid looking, giving the impression of fluid combat. Can be something as simple as to let the "passive" actor do something while waiting, like parrying, showing off, a bit of acrobatics, or just dancing in a defensive posture (like real fencers).

 

Another good idea was to improve the elegance of the fighting style visibly from simple hack and slash routine of the novice to some advanced ninja style as more points are put into the duelling or lightsaber feats. And thats just for the general fighting. Would still like to see powerattack literally cleave your opponent or flurry turn into a dismember fest (Rodian Kebab, Selkath Fillet anyone ?)

 

Could add a little entertainment to even the less interesting/important encounters...

[tripleRRR]

I would truly like to see more/better dialog and story options more than I would combat eye candy, so I would prefer that is what the devs add most of their efforts too.

 

That said however, I hope Obsidian adds a whole heck of a lot more tactical options to the combat scenarios, most of the time in KotOR I sat back and watched the fight like I would watch a movie, instead lets have player actions count for a bit more. Placement of characters, feat and skill choices and all that.

 

 

TripleRRR

[kefka]

The combat queue is mostly to blame for the "sit back and watch the action" moments. It's all too easy to line up your best attacks with no pressure on you at all.

[Weiser_Cain]

I want it to stay that way. This is a rpg not an action game.

[kefka]

This is a rpg not an action game.

That's debatable.

 

Kotor2 should have more options during combat, and more importantly, the need to use them.

 

At present, you can load the 'queue' up with Force Wave and never do another thing until your enemies are dead. Just sit back and watch the show. If that's what passes for tactical combat in an RPG these days, then maybe Kotor should be an action game.

[Fearless_Jedi]

[/b]Well, I am the one who started this thread so I better start replying more.

 

First thing, I understand alot of you hate the fact u have to fight 99% of the time in KOTOR, but I doubt that will change much, maybe if you just use force powers all the time instead of a lightsaber you may feel better, but dont expect to see a star wars game that has absolutely NO combat at all. I personally have never played a game that allowed you to fight like a Jedi in the movies but KOTOR came closer than any other game out there (which made it fun for me), and probably around Episode III's release there will be a game that actually does let you fight like jedi in the movies(can't wait).

 

Next, I think Kefka hit it on the head when he said just make the combat look more real time. Without the turn part of the system it would make the combat "twitch" combat which noone likes. I personally just want to see a lightsaber battle look like one battle without any visible pauses(turns), but the turns should still be there. If I had it my way, combat would be all automatic with maybe you just controlling the strategy of your character not his movements, but that aint gonna happen.

 

Lastly, regarding the flurry, power attack, and critical hit. Nothing will change my mind that these are completely useless. I used flurry the whole game and it pissed me off that I had to do the same move just to get some good damage on the enemy. That is that.

 

Anyway, Kefka I have to say I like your ideas and the web site u posted about the jedi fighting styles, is that your web site??

[Judge Hades]

As far as I am concerned I am passing this game by for quite a number of reasons.

 

1) Forcing you to play a specific character instead giving you the freedom to make your own character. I hated this sort of spoon fed gaming in PS:T, SWKOTOR, Gothic 2, and so forth and so on. I want to role play MY character, not the developers.

 

2) Combat of the first game was quite boring and aggravating. Boring that you spend most of the time just watching the action. That is a major limitation of the real time combat in this sort of game. Proper turn base combat as seen in Fallout or in ToEE would have been better for you would have much more options to put the beat down on your opponents. Aggravating because you had to constantly be monitoring your NPCs to have them do what you specifically want them to do. Such as I wanted Bastila and Mission to go to a specific place AND STAY THERE while my main would lead the enemies in an ambush. Did Mission and Bastila do as I wanted? HELL FREAKING NO! There stupid AI had them run off doing other crap.

 

3) This is a hand-me-down game. From Bioware to Obsidian, and I just don't play games that are in that catagory.

[Volourn]

Stop lying. You gonna buy it and you know it.

[Judge Hades]

I am not lying, Volourn. Frankly I am distancing myself from computer gaming all together.

[Volourn]

O.o. It's that phase again. Please come talk to me when you feel better.

[Morgoth]

[Judge Hades]

Till I feel better? I feel pretty good as it is. I am focusing more on my writing than playing games, which is a good thing mind you. I feel like I am getting something actually accomplished. Computer gaming has become boring and after the last few lackluster titles that I wasted money on I feel it is time I gave it up. That is why I haven't been on the forums of late.

[leombruno]

I am not lying, Volourn. Frankly I am distancing myself from computer gaming all together.

Can't you do any better a job?

 

[Judge Hades]

Don't know. Maybe and maybe not. Never been in the position to give it a try.