Will a Fixed viewpoint be damaging to the immersion? also amount of combat.

[Caligula Dances]

I am excited hearing about obsidian making a new game but please dont be fixated on a viewpoint like isometric, theres been a general advancement , a evolution if you will in gaming to more of ,a modern approach with 1st person views or at least having a camera were you can pan to truly admire the clothing and accesories and tattoos of your character (the character that YOU spend time making) if you do implement a camera which you can rotate please make it better than fallout new vegas which though was a good idea but looked..awkward. ,. and viewpoint is paramount to immersive experience, i want to feel like im actually IN the world , so viewpoint and then atmosphere, then story , then continuity etc

 

But a 1st person viewpoint like new vegas would be brilliant in a fantasy setting, let me set the scene:

 

My character has a tomahawk in one hand and a bola in the other (for example sake i understand there will be firearms in the game, probably rifle or primitive machine gun maybe an explosive or magic imbued firearm)I kick down the front door of a house spliters fly everywhere - details like this will help with immersion - the music then starts to pipe up in volume - maybe a orchestral style music piece to really fit the scene as my character goes into battle.

 

The tomahawk is thrown blindly (the shards are still splintering the air obscuring the view) and misses, the bola is thrown at an orcs legs and he falls over .

my character then pulls out a bow and notches an arrow

because its first person you can actually SEE the fear in the orcs eyes as hes about to be shot by my arrow and realises that ill then move on and kill his family (orcs=evil creatures) and get my reward from the quest giver.

 

now that deals with the superior viewpoint and thats just one example, imagine all the combat in the game it should be like Neverwinter nights 2 were you kill countless creatures and you can really get an impression for the overwhelming strength and power of your characters as they just cut everything to pieces in each and every battle almost without effort- but this time up close and personal.

 

Now i hope that looting is more of a streamlined process perhaps like dungeon siege (if i recall correctly that is) were you can automatically collect up all the gold pieces and then you can choose to pick up the nicer stuff like swords which SHOULD display DPS since the MMO style item properties IS a evolution in gameplay. (as picked up on by Obsidians prior Fallout New Vegas) and more immersive than having a description for the item then a +1 +2 etc which actually fell out of favour anyway.

 

So HUGE kudos to Obsidian, good luck with the game - i am indeed a backer but dont be afraid to change gameplay or camera angels which may hamper the immersive aspect of the game.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Caligula Dances

[Infinitron]

Sorry, we are fixated on being fixated.

[TwinkieGorilla]

please dont be fixated on a fixed viewpoint like isometric--

 

*slap*

 

GTFO.

[Brodin]

First person perspective? Streamlining? Heresy!

[evdk]

Caligula was saner than you, friend.

[Concerned Reader]

What you're describing does sound nice, but it doesn't actually sound like the game that Obsidian has described thus far.

[Grimlorn]

Oh god no. We don't care about accessories and what clothes our characters wear. There hasn't been an evolution. Only a devolution. That's the whole point of these kickstarter projects to get back to making great RPGs and not focus on graphics and cinematics.

[Enclave]

What we've seen in modern RPGs isn't streamlining or evolution. It's simply appealing to the masses who want every game to be generic FPS #7348732

 

This game is for us who miss the old IE games and yes, that means fixed isometric camera. They were very up front about this in the kickstarter video and if they weren't I'm not so sure I would have pledged.

 

Seems to me you would prefer an Elder Scrolls style game rather than what this game is. This is a party based cRPG. First person just doesn't work for that.

 

Anyways, it seems to me that you're asking for a massive dumbing down of the game so that it's like any other game being made today. If they wanted to make a game like that then they wouldn't have had issues getting a publisher.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Enclave

[Caligula Dances]

Ahh but Enclave there was a party system for new vegas, it was decent having a character to talk to, their own special skills story and sometimes quest - and most important carrying all the loot.

So what im saying is that the companionship CAN work with first person, afterall new vegas is proof of that - although it was limited in that you could only have the one companion.

 

Still i have faith in Obsidian, they delivered BIG TIME on new vegas in many ways i think its superior to anything bethsoft had developed so im hopeful that Obsidian will still create an immersive experience regardless of the fixed background/isometric view - and have the guts to make changes when necessary.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Caligula Dances

[Enclave]

No there wasn't a party system in New Vegas. There was a system where you controlled your one character and then AI did what it wanted with your party members.

 

Go play Baldur's Gate, go play Planescape: Torment, go play Icewind Dale. THAT is a party system.

[nikolokolus]

I like some 1st person games, but I don't want that here. And fortunately, it won't be.

[evdk]

No there wasn't a party system in New Vegas. There was a system where you controlled your one character and then AI did what it wanted with your party members.

 

Go play Baldur's Gate, go play Planescape: Torment, go play Icewind Dale. THAT is a party system.

I do declare, we are getting trolled.

[Delterius]

Will a Fixed viewpoint be-

 

No.

[Caligula Dances]

But there must be examples of immersive first person RPG's with party systems surely,

wouldnt something like Might and Magic VI the mandate of heaven count?

Edited September 20, 2012 by Caligula Dances

[Troller]

there should be at least exceptions when you want to take upskirt shots of the female NPC or companions

[Enclave]

No there wasn't a party system in New Vegas. There was a system where you controlled your one character and then AI did what it wanted with your party members.

 

Go play Baldur's Gate, go play Planescape: Torment, go play Icewind Dale. THAT is a party system.

I do declare, we are getting trolled.

 

Possibly, but it's equally possible that he really means what he's saying. I've seen his like before. People who actually think that what's happened to RPGs in recent years is actually progress and that isometric is gone because it's somehow outdated. These same people think 2D sprites are inherently inferior to 3D polygonal models.

[working man hole]

I am excited hearing about obsidian making a new game but please dont be fixated on a viewpoint like isometric, theres been a general advancement , a evolution if you will in gaming to more of ,a modern approach with 1st person views or at least having a camera were you can pan to truly admire the clothing and accesories and tattoos of your character (the character that YOU spend time making) if you do implement a camera which you can rotate please make it better than fallout new vegas which though was a good idea but looked..awkward. ,. and viewpoint is paramount to immersive experience, i want to feel like im actually IN the world , so viewpoint and then atmosphere, then story , then continuity etc

 

But a 1st person viewpoint like new vegas would be brilliant in a fantasy setting, let me set the scene:

 

My character has a tomahawk in one hand and a bola in the other (for example sake i understand there will be firearms in the game, probably rifle or primitive machine gun maybe an explosive or magic imbued firearm)I kick down the front door of a house spliters fly everywhere - details like this will help with immersion - the music then starts to pipe up in volume - maybe a orchestral style music piece to really fit the scene as my character goes into battle.

 

The tomahawk is thrown blindly (the shards are still splintering the air obscuring the view) and misses, the bola is thrown at an orcs legs and he falls over .

my character then pulls out a bow and notches an arrow

because its first person you can actually SEE the fear in the orcs eyes as hes about to be shot by my arrow and realises that ill then move on and kill his family (orcs=evil creatures) and get my reward from the quest giver.

 

now that deals with the superior viewpoint and thats just one example, imagine all the combat in the game it should be like Neverwinter nights 2 were you kill countless creatures and you can really get an impression for the overwhelming strength and power of your characters as they just cut everything to pieces in each and every battle almost without effort- but this time up close and personal.

 

Now i hope that looting is more of a streamlined process perhaps like dungeon siege (if i recall correctly that is) were you can automatically collect up all the gold pieces and then you can choose to pick up the nicer stuff like swords which SHOULD display DPS since the MMO style item properties IS a evolution in gameplay. (as picked up on by Obsidians prior Fallout New Vegas) and more immersive than having a description for the item then a +1 +2 etc which actually fell out of favour anyway.

 

So HUGE kudos to Obsidian, good luck with the game - i am indeed a backer but dont be afraid to change gameplay or camera angels which may hamper the immersive aspect of the game.

 

I don't get these threads that ask for PE being made like every other generic quasi-rpg fps being produced today. This is for those of us who actually want a game made "the classic way", and those who don't believe that way is obsolete or in any way worse than the "modern" way.

I for one believe it's superior in almost every way, from enabling tactical combat, to, contrary to your opinion, better immersion. It is much harder to immerse when I have to constantly watch those uncanny valley faces talking rubbish with voices given by incompetent voice actors.

We waited 10 years for something like this, why do you want to take it away?

Edited September 20, 2012 by Tigranes
Keep the insults out

[Yst]

Axonometric Projection is simply the clearly superior manner of projecting a large cityscape, or any broad expanse, for that matter, which does not have a singular point of focus, and which would not benefit from one.

 

China caught on to that much quicker than the west.

 

Perspective projection is clearly preferable, if a game wishes to create a sense of their being a personified observer. As inherently, it creates a point of view, with a specific location in space.

 

Axonometric projection is clearly preferable, if a game wishes to remove the sense of the view being that of a personified observer. As the viewpoint lacks fixed perspective or focus, and hence any specific observer or point of view located in space.

 

We are not looking down on the party in an Infinity Engine type game, from a fixed point of view. We want to remove any sense of our possessing a specific viewer perspective, as no such viewer exists within the context of the world. For an Infinity Engine style game, axonometric perspective is the immersive choice.

[Concerned Reader]

I'm playing through Radiant Historia on my DS right now, and it's really made me appreciate strong storytelling and spritework within an RPG framework. Bastion would be another example of a really well done fixed perspective game.

[Caligula Dances]

Do you actually need a poll?

The first person viewpoint has been an evolution though, even from early 90's it seems developers were moving that way without being forced by a big bad publisher - ultima underworld for instance is better looking than their isometric ultima games.

As for 3d models, the jump was made to 3d because it was better, look at neverwinter nights for proof , was it not also a good thing for developers in terms of how easy it was to make animations?

Edited September 20, 2012 by Caligula Dances

[Delterius]

Arguing against a FP perspective is like arguing against a Isometric perspective. Trying to fixate inherent negativity to a idea that is neither good, or bad, out of context. And that's stupid. Neither is more or less immersive as a rule of thumb.

 

In context, however, FP perspective is bad because the games cited as inspiration are all isometric.

 

Again, Will a Fixed viewpoint b-

 

No.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Delterius

[Caligula Dances]

Perhaps you are right Deleterius, it just comes down to manner of preference although the immersivity (if you will) is certainly enhanced in certain settings (e.g. the fallout new vegas vaults - "go to the light" section is something ill remember for a long time , or seeing the ship fly away) due to the first person view.

 

Still i have faith in Obsidian to forge ahead with what they do best which is making a fun game afterall, neverwinter nights 2 wasnt first person but was splendid.

[Metabot]

Stop using the word "immersion." Get a f***ing thesaurus or something f***.

[Ieo]

Do you actually need a poll?

The first person viewpoint has been an evolution though, even from early 90's it seems developers were moving that way without being forced by a big bad publisher - ultima underworld for instance is better looking than their isometric ultima games.

As for 3d models, the jump was made to 3d because it was better, look at neverwinter nights for proof , was it not also a good thing for developers in terms of how easy it was to make animations?

 

"My opinion is factually right, everyone else is wrong. So there!"

 

I noticed you never mentioned any of the three Infinity Engine games that Obsidian explicitly mention for homage, so you probably never played them.

 

In that case: Honey, you backed the wrong thing. This isn't for you. Don't worry, there's still time to cancel your pledge. Hurry!

[Delterius]

Stop using the word "immersion." Get a f***ing thesaurus or something f***.

 

Immersion is important.

 

Unfortunately, its used as a catchphrase in arguments.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Delterius