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The Guildmaster

Update #4: Digital Tiers, DRM, and Add-Ons Update

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Please people, don't start the Steam vs GoG - debate again now that it's granted. I'm a little disapointed when i learned from this topic that it's the Kickstarters that are really anti-gog but now, what can you do.

 

Though I want to blurt quickly to you guys that Obsidian IS taking a risk putting it on GoG since there won't be any guarantee if people will either buy it or get it from through torrents or rapidly uploaded to rapidshare et all. Think about it.

Also, to quickly blurt another perspective: the industry is pr much in a state where piracy is seriously cannibalizing sales so you really can seriously argue that Steam IS a little price to pay for the service... because it could seriously be much worse with a tighter noose on consumer's (PC gamers!) neck (possibly no pc games developed over console ones). And if you've read about Steam, you should know that despite it's shortcomings sometimes, it's run by nerds as well so it's a little hard for me to believe that their greatest intention is to FOOL YOU GAMERS. They've made it pretty clear on several occasions that they have no plans to sell their company to bigger firms eg EA.

 

Sorry for the hit-and-run - commentary though but this steam vs gog debate should seriously be elsewhere than in Update #4 topic! and you should also read about it more from all perspectives from various sources in the internet and otherwise.

 

Now, let's hope for answers to the questions in this topic...

 

EDIT: now that i think about it, IDK if it goes like this but it almost seems like that translations might be necessary to announce during the pledge so that you could even GET money out of consumers/possible fans of Obsidian from countries like eg. russia where you can get any game pirated either through internet or even physically in the market a couple days before the game is even released in the country.

It's like fighting a losing war, can you get the money out before it becomes easy to get through other ways. The only hope really is that gamers WILL buy it from places like GoG or Steam.

 

But yeah, this from sales perspective. Maybe games like these had to be followed by their actual sales AND by how much it got pirated by different parts of the world so that the real demand for genre/type of games/the spiritual successor can be realistically estimated. :p

 

EDIT: Somebody in the comments - section also mentions that the Pledge 25 dollars (digital download through Steam) needs to be changed to Steam and GoG. Just a fyi

 

Piracy cannot be prevented with DRM! That's a simple fact and I don't know why people always want to discuss about it. Every (major) game on Steam of the last 2 or 3 years was cracked the day it was released on Steam or perhaps the day after. There is no protection at all against piracy with Steam.

CD Projekt (the owner of gog.com) realized that fact and decided to promote Witcher 2 DRM-free on gog.com. Surely Witcher 2 was pirated (a lot for sure) but it wasn't the DRM-free gog.com version which was available on the internet, it was the securom-protected retail version! So why investing in DRM? CD Projekt even confirmed that the DRM measures slowed down the game and cost a lot to implement them. So they decided to rather care about their actual customers than care about the pirates. They even offered all owners of Steam and retail versions to get another DRM-free gog.com version for free as backup.

 

And even if Steam clearly abandons all DRM measures for Project Eternity my game is still bound to my steam client. I'm not able to play it without the client. That's not what I call "property" and I want to own the game I buy. So when I have to decide whether I choose Steam or gog.com I would take the latter because I need its service only for downloading the content. After that I can do what I want with the data! You see the difference?

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Thanks Obsidian for another update, and I am sure there will be plenty more. Great to see there will be a guest star every day providing more information, that should help keeps things ticking along between award Tiers.

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I mean, don't you guys play AAA games too? I know I do and these games have DRM in one form or another.

 

Its hard to avoid DRM unless you stick to indie games or something.

 

I do, but as someone else noted, it's the principle of the thing for the most part for me. Although I've also been burned by three separate DRM schemes, so that's the root of my hatred for any kind of DRM. But the way I look at it is if a game's tied to a client, then its value in my eyes is severely diminished. I use both Steam and Origin, and between them I've got somewhere around 35 games on them. But with the exception of the original Mass Effect, which is the first Steam-saddled game I bought, I've not paid more than $5 for a single game on any of those clients. 5 bucks is pretty much the ceiling for me as far as paying for a game that's tied to a client.

 

That being said, I've bought tons of Indie games as well as some older titles from GOG. All of these combined have me with a backlog of literally scores of games to play. So I don't really miss out by waiting for a AAA game that's tied to some DRM scheme I don't like to drop in price before grabbing it at a deep discount.

 

Anyway, apologies for the slight off-topicness, but just thought I'd give you some input on your query.

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Seeing the 4th update today really made me smile. GOG and beta access are fantastic additions, and I think we can see the result of that, the pledges are coming a bit faster again.

 

Thanks again Obsidian! I'm looking forward to the upcoming updates, I'd love to get a video update from Avellone!


Dragonblade of the Obsidian Order

 

No sleep for the Watcher

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I actually like Steam and am surprised to see so many who dislike it here; it doesn't actually require you to be online to play your games

It requires you, however, to activate the game before playing and having Steam running whenever you're playing. Which is what is meant with DRM.

When Steam goes bankrupt or offline, you cannot install and play any game.

 

Valve's said (repeatedly) that they'll release the games from the client if they go under.

 

That's a lie/ internet myth.

They never, EVER officially stated such a thing.

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OK thanks guys for all the answers.

I just really dont want this great project go the wrong, annoying, non pleasurable DIABLO 3 way.

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Can I upgrade/change from my existing pledge 65$ to 140$ ? Or it is permanent and I have to make new pledge so to speak?


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Thanks for the drm-free copy. I have to admit what I really want as an addon is the book, preferably hard back I love artbooks game related or otherwise slightly off topic but I would love to see a "The artists of Obsidian" book covering stuff by artists past/present doesn't have to relate to any games just artworks, though I do imagine some would be upset if it didn't have some things related to what the company does.

 

My contentious musings: While AAA games do tend to come with drm theres no actual reason for it look at Bethesda they released both Oblivion and Fallout with out anything more than a disc check and, I think that the sole reason that their more recent games have used steam is to simplify the delivery of another three letters DLC (cause while some gamers may dislike steam a great many more hate games for windows live, whatever name its given though I still curse the decision as it means I can't get Dishonoured).

 

The real reason for the push for online mechanisms is they generate added value for the publisher/developer they increase DLC uptake, they form attachment for the stores and increase exposure to advertising as well as providing a means to evaluate the consumers and do market research. They provide a competitive forum around achievements using social mechanisms for marketing and prolonging game life and in one way or another reduce second hand sales. I would love to use the "What if" machine from Futurama and see how successful Steam would be if it didn't require an account I imagine it would be interesting even if online activation was still needed. (As a slight nitpick you can get the first Assassins Creed game on GOG though I know full well what you mean given the desire I've had to break my rules for a few games)

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Can I upgrade/change from my existing pledge 65$ to 140$ ? Or it is permanent and I have to make new pledge so to speak?

 

There should be an option on the kickstarter page to "manage your pledge" or something to that effect which will allow you to increase the amount.

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Thanks, the DRM-free option is the second-best news I've heard in a while (the best being the announcement of Project Eternity ;) ).

 

Two questions:

- For those of us buying a box version, will the copy on the disc be DRM-free too?

- Can the high-res digital map be added to some of the physical tiers too? Because I want that, but I also want the boxed copy.

 

EDIT: Actually I see that question one is already addressed earlier in the thread.

Edited by Arundor

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Thanks for being so receptive to suggestions, devs. Quite a few other higher-profile companies could learn a thing or two from you.

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Thanks, the DRM-free option is the second-best news I've heard in a while (the best being the announcement of Project Eterenity ;) ).

 

Two questions:

- For those of us buying a box version, will the copy on the disc be DRM-free too?

- Can the high-res digital map be added to some of the physical tiers too? Because I want that, but I also want the boxed copy.

 

Can't speak for your second question, but it looks like they haven't yet determined just how the box version will work just yet.

 

Not promising anything yet, but we'll look into how to do that best. We wanted to use Steam to give folks achievements and cloud saves (we're not interested in the DRM features, just its streaming and gamer stuff) but it may be possible for us to support DRM free on the disc, but still give fans of Steam access to those things.

 

Again not promising that, but that's how I'd ideally like to see it handled and we'll see what we can do!

 

-TG

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Thanks for the DRM free GOG option. Achievements are useless to me, and cloud saves? I just have one computer and have no use for such a feature. Lastly, Steam has a near-monopoly on digital sales anymore, it's nice to spread around the sales and give consumers an option, and GOG is the best digital site to do that in, in my opinion. Thanks a lot!


The Obsidian Orders Royal Pain

"Ouch"

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Don't know if anyone else might have pointed this out, but it may be a good idea to perhaps update the FAQ on the main page with explanations on what each tier offers in order to account for additional things like beta access. That way, there hopefully won't be any confusion.

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Wow, got home from work and see there's some awesome new info! Great to see some love being thrown toward the CDPR guys.

 

But damn you Obs - you keep draining my wallet like this, next thing I'll be homeless. At least I'll have some cool swag, though...

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I actually like Steam and am surprised to see so many who dislike it here; it doesn't actually require you to be online to play your games

It requires you, however, to activate the game before playing and having Steam running whenever you're playing. Which is what is meant with DRM.

When Steam goes bankrupt or offline, you cannot install and play any game.

 

Valve's said (repeatedly) that they'll release the games from the client if they go under.

 

That's a lie/ internet myth.

They never, EVER officially stated such a thing.

 

Hmm. I haven't been able to find a quote either, so you may be right.

 

But in any case, there's always "offline mode," which you can more or less run in perpetuum for single player games.


"Understanding is a three-edged blade."

"Vivis sperandum: Where there is life, there is hope."

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Don't know if anyone else might have pointed this out, but it may be a good idea to perhaps update the FAQ on the main page with explanations on what each tier offers in order to account for additional things like beta access. That way, there hopefully won't be any confusion.

Why in the FAQ? They have an own subsection on the Kickstarter Project Eternity main page called "Rewards" in which every tier is listed with all its benefits in form of some nice graphics. They already updated this graphical list with the new digital tiers. Check it out. ;)


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Woohoo! DRM-free! This is the news I've been waiting to here! Now...I just need to actually build up some funds so I can donate, too!

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Thanks for the GoG release Obsidian :biggrin: Releasing the game DRM free is a great show of faith in your fans.

 

I don't hate Steam or anything, they're better than a lot of distributers, but when I can support GoG I always do.

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This is awesome! DRM-free is the way of the future, thanks for listening and props to the awesome dudes at GOG for cooperating! :)

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- Can the high-res digital map be added to some of the physical tiers too? Because I want that, but I also want the boxed copy.

This question actually points out an interesting ambiguity. The $65 option says "Previous reward tier + BOX VERSION OF PROJECT ETERNITY." The previous reward tier is now clearly the $50 one which includes the map and other digital goodies so people who don't scroll down will be expecting them. On the other hand, the graphics for the $65 tier don't have the "digital fun pack" picture. I would assume the text is correct, mostly because adding the extra digital content to the $65 tier costs them nothing and they probably don't want people who would otherwise pay $65 to vacillate between that and the $50 option. However, this could definitely use some clarification.

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- Can the high-res digital map be added to some of the physical tiers too? Because I want that, but I also want the boxed copy.

This question actually points out an interesting ambiguity. The $65 option says "Previous reward tier + BOX VERSION OF PROJECT ETERNITY." The previous reward tier is now clearly the $50 one which includes the map and other digital goodies so people who don't scroll down will be expecting them. On the other hand, the graphics for the $65 tier don't have the "digital fun pack" picture. I would assume the text is correct, mostly because adding the extra digital content to the $65 tier costs them nothing and they probably don't want people who would otherwise pay $65 to vacillate between that and the $50 option. However, this could definitely use some clarification.

Everything is clearly stated in the "Rewards" section on the main Project site on Kickstarter. Just have a look at the graphics for each single tier. ;)


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Really enjoying getting home or waking up and seeing a new update posted already. The swift meetings and decisions made and communicated to us is really appreciated.

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Everything is clearly stated in the "Rewards" section on the main Project site on Kickstarter. Just have a look at the graphics for each single tier. ;)

I tried looking around and I honestly still couldn't find anything that addresses the confusion here.

 

The problem is, by "all previous rewards" does it refers to $35 or #50 tier?

 

Because $50 is an additional tier, and its a digital only tier, so as such, Obsidian may assume it to be a branched out tier, rather than being part of the hierarchy. In that case, when you look at the $65 tier, the all previous rewards may STILL refers to the $35 tier, and not the extra $50 tier.

Edited by Hornet85

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