Crafting, Alchemy, Enchanting, Spell improvement

[oldmanpaco]

If I want to be a blacksmith I'll play a blacksmith RPG. Same for alchemy and enchanting. To be honest the only 'crafting' I really like in a RPG is like BG2 where you collect artifacts to enhance magical item. But you pay an expert to do it.

 

I don't want to collect weeds. I don't want to haul around random crafting junk. I don't want to go to a magic table and walk away with phat lootz because I had random junk and random weeds in my inventory.

Edited September 19, 2012 by oldmanpaco

[IcyDeadPeople]

If I want to be a blacksmith I'll play a blacksmith RPG. Same for alchemy and enchanting. To be honest the only 'crafting' I really like in a RPG is like BG2 where you collect artifacts to enhance magical item. But you pay an expert to do it.

 

I don't want to collect weeds. I don't want to haul around random crafting junk. I don't want to go to a magic table and walk away with phat lootz because I had random junk and random weeds in my inventory.

 

It's fine that you don't enjoy crafting, but why do you say "go play a blacksmith RPG" or an "alchemy RPG" etc?

 

Personally, I love RPGs that allow you to play very different kinds of characters each time, and crafting systems can be a great way to develop an interesting character concept.

 

For example, in Skyrim, I first played a Dunmer kleptomaniac, who was frequently in and out of jail in all the cities of the game and not very knowledgeable at all about crafting, other than tanning a few hides and constructing a tent for camping.

 

Then I played a 2-handed Nord barbarian who was of the opinion that sneaking around, using ranged weapons or magic spells was for cowards. This barbarian focused solely on the 2-handed weapons skill and smithing, but certainly never crafted any "phat lootz." I think the highest I ever got my smithing skill was up to 30, barely enough to forge a simple steel sword. But it was fun because my character made it, and it was part of my concept of that character that he knew a little about smithing.

 

Then I played an Argonian tribal shaman character who specialized in poisoned throwing spears and illusion magic. The Skyrim alchemy system turned out to be quite fun, sort of like a gambling mini-game where you collect a lot of animal organs, herbs and minerals, mix 2 or 3 unknown ingredients together and sometimes you get an interesting potion or poison and sometimes you get jack. Again, this was part of the RP for this character who was very knowledgeable about the deadliest poisons brewed from exotic plants. Even then, I never got my alchemy skill up above 40 or 50 or so.

 

Personally, I have never enjoyed playing overpowered characters in any game, I just like to play very different characters with each playthrough and having various crafting skills with a deep crafting system is a great feature to enhance the role playing environment and add replay value.

 

EDIT: Of course if there is the potential for mod tools as one of the stretch goals, perhaps a crafting system can be added by modders if there is none in the vanilla game.

Edited September 19, 2012 by IcyDeadPeople

[Parsifal]

I voted "none of the above" because I don't like the grinding aspect of these. If you have a way around that, I'd be game. I'd suggest that crafting etc. is replaced by mission-based improvements that focus on a given character- maybe like the Fallout NV NPCs?

 

X minutes of "crafting" feels like I'm not "playing a game" anymore. It feels like a game company is trying to use Addiction Psychology knowledge against their customers [World of Warcraft, etc].

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I don't want any of them. It just feels a bit mmo like to me.

 

The only thing I'd want is the ability for my mage to cast fiery weapon or suchlike or my thief to have poison.

[Gurkog]

I have never enjoyed crafting systems in single player RPGs. I think it is because crafting reminds me too much of MMO's. There is rarely enough content in single player games to get much use out of them, anyway. I could see an ARPG like Diablo or Torchlight that has no 'conclusion' could use crafting to great effect though.

[Sordel]

I voted for all four, but there are some problems with alchemy/crafting, the chief amongst which is bag space. The last thing I want to do is carry around forty iron filings for twenty levels until I can get a piece of tanned leather and two ash branches so I can make an Ash dagger .... especially if those items are in slots that could be used for usable items.

 

I also hate fail states for crafting where you sit down with a stack of fleeces from grinding sheep all day and then have a 75% fail rate on crafting Woolen Undershirts (+1 Cold Resistance). On the other hand I don't mind if 80% are ordinary and 20% are Fine (+2 Cold Resistence, w00t!).

 

Crafting systems are great in themselves, but this isn't an MMORPG so they don't need to be a hideous timesink. They should just be another area of complexity for players who prefer to have a passive bonus.

 

All of this 'developer time permitting' as well of course.

[Wombat]

In terms of crafting, I found myself more interested in immersion factor such as hunting/making items out of killed creatures, or plants/making use of environments in dangerous wilderness areas. One of the things I liked about BG series is that traveling wilderness really felt dangerous and the spell memorization factor of D&D worked well with resource management (This aspect has been totally nerfed in later works by Bioware). So, I think Sawyer's focus on camping is right on the target. Gothic series are generally good at this but I'd like to see more depth in this regard.

[nikolokolus]

As long as merchants are available, loot is plentiful(ish), and the game has a good balanced economy I'd say I'm in favor of none of the above.

 

These things work OK in MMOs, but aside from the odd quest of reforging Narsil, or the broken bagpipes of balderdash, I'd prefer resources be spent by the devs on things that flesh out the story, characters and world.

 

That said, I think having item degredation or breakage and a repair/smithing mechanic can work if handled carefully.

Edited September 19, 2012 by nikolokolus

[IcyDeadPeople]

So, I think Sawyer's focus on camping is right on the target. Gothic series are generally good at this but I'd like to see more depth in this regard.

 

There will be camping / survival features in the game?

Edited September 19, 2012 by IcyDeadPeople

[PsychoBlonde]

I don't really care if it's OP, it's fun to fiddle with. And it's not like economy actually matters in a single-player game unless you're trying to make some kind of Fantasy Economy Sim. Which could be cool.

[Sensuki]

Baldur's Gate 2 style perhaps.

[Wombat]

So, I think Sawyer's focus on camping is right on the target. Gothic series are generally good at this but I'd like to see more depth in this regard.

 

There will be camping / survival features in the game?

lol @ your avatar. I meant his ideas of Jefferson but...I saw quite many ideas from his past ideas already in the game and, what the ranger class is for? One of the planned abilities for rangers in Jefferson was that they can spot hidden caves, for example. I wonder how many of these non-combat ablities will be avilable in PE but they must be very valuable in wilderness adventures.

[Labadal]

I want them all if done properly. I like playing around with this sort of stuff, and spend more time than I probably should on these things if available.

[cyberarmy]

Alchemy and enchanting is enough for me but i also like some trap making.

 

I we are going to have any crafting there should be finite resources and also discovering some recipes would be nice.

[timobkg]

In theory, I like crafting. In practice, it just turns into busywork. I don't want games with busywork. I'd rather the development resources be spent elsewhere.

[limaxophobiacq]

BG 2/TOB style magic-item crafting was great fun, and maybe it would be cool if there were some items you could only make if you invested in some magic-crafting skill yourself, and others you could make cheaper yourself than paying someone, but otherwise no. Crafting awesomely powerfull magic items being as easy as it is in NWN2 makes them seem too mundane for me. I want the greatest magic items to be legendary creations with crazy-long item-biographies (yes, even longer than in the old IE games), or things you help forge as part of the storyline or as a sidequest*.

 

*I'd be cool with these items crafted as part of the story or through quests got even better if you had some crafting skill, but then it'd have to be done in some way so you don't have to wait with these quests untill you've maxed-out your crafting skill to get the best item. So maybe being a good magic item crafter should just be like a feat that you can get at character creation rather than a skill you raise. Ok I'm basically just rambling at this point.

Edited September 21, 2012 by limaxophobiacq

[general_azure]

What exactly do you guys consider "spell improvement"? D&D style empowered magic missile? Elder scrolls style spellmaking? Some sort of spell combo?

 

On crafting: I like the BG2 style, building stuff around artifact pieces you find here and there. Maybe with with an option to have different ways to combine those pieces, like putting the mythical halberd blade on the shaft of an axe if halberds are not your kind of thing. Of course the assembly will have to be done by a professional with decades of experience...

[l3loodangel]

What exactly do you guys consider "spell improvement"? D&D style empowered magic missile? Elder scrolls style spellmaking? Some sort of spell combo?

 

No perks is a separate thing and I don't play TES series. I was thinking more about finding hidden ancient inscriptions or combining spells through spells combos or learning some ancient techniques to make some aspects of spells better.

Edited September 21, 2012 by l3loodangel

[l3loodangel]

I voted "none of the above" because I don't like the grinding aspect of these. If you have a way around that, I'd be game. I'd suggest that crafting etc. is replaced by mission-based improvements that focus on a given character- maybe like the Fallout NV NPCs?

 

X minutes of "crafting" feels like I'm not "playing a game" anymore. It feels like a game company is trying to use Addiction Psychology knowledge against their customers [World of Warcraft, etc].

 

Are you retarded? It's not a MMO, with active economy, so you will never need to hunt down 50 rat's to make boots.

[Theobeau]

Agree with many posters about the potential trap that it all becomes grinding and rather dull.

 

However if done right, it could be an interesting side feature.

 

Whoever mentioned random weeds earlier; perhaps in the world of PE some of those weeds wil also work on THC, serotonin and dopamine neuroreceptors like certain plant products do in our world......could make for an rather fun side quest!

[septembervirgin]

I actually faint dead away when someone says DIY. Try it sometime. Walk up to me and say DIY. Then carry me to a questionable massage parlor. No better place to wake up in.

 

I think that Arcanum crafting would make me faint too. I had a devil of a time remembering what components to use, with my rulebook fluttering around the room and singing in strange tongues. The best crafting system by far IMHO would be found in Everquest 2; that game could've been so wonderful if it had primarily emergent gameplay that didn't depend on player populace. Yeesh. Quests that I despised, people that I found inept and boring, but otherwise many good concepts lurked in that game.