How realistic is your cup of tea?

[Palmtuna]

Most of the time, I think explicitly showing brutality or its aftermath has much less impact than leaving it to the player's imagination. Setting the stage, then leaving it to the inner eye, so to speak.

 

Uncovering the horror through dialogue or innuendo, observing the effects and psychological scars - this is the kind of presentation I'd like to see. I don't want to see lots of it, but what there is should definitely be told without sugarcoating. I'd love to see something surreal. Btw., consuming small amounts of the deceased is a funeral rite that actually exists. As soon as you read up on the motivations behind it, it's actually not horrible at all.

 

This is exactly how I wanted to say it, but no need to repeat, when just the quote is enough...

 

Like in our world, lot of bad things happen, but you almost never see them, you just hear or read about it, be it from rumors, TV or newspaper. Let the player imagination do some work!

 

But do not forget to show us some happiness as well, drama and tragedy is much more deeper, after you allow us to enjoy some happy moments and then hit us hard with some trauma...

 

This is one video I agree most about how happiness and sadness should be presented in any game, and how they should not be...

 

 

http://www.escapistm...ough-The-Laughs

 

I would have to disagree. Reading about a mass genocide or watching the news about a school shooting pales in comparison to actually being there and experiencing it firsthand. Granted, a great narrative can provoke your emotions to a nearly similar degree, but those are hard to accomplish; especially throughout an entire plot where everything builds on itself.

 

Good video example by the way.

[Palmtuna]

Wow.. This isn't a question of realism. I think the expression you're looking for is: "How edgy can this game be?"

That's how sleazy marketting-agents think. They try to find what kids like and then exploit it. And kids often like

things that should appeal to those older than them. That's what's usually 'cool', or 'edgy'.

 

So, edgy has very little to do with realism or maturity, especially maturity. Those are two powerful, seperate terms

that can enhance a story. Violence, rape, child killings, are mature themes, but those things alone don't make a good story.

Anyone using those tools in a story should have a good reason to do so, and not for a casual wow-factor.

 

Do I think these violent things can be included to the story? Yes, if it serves the story, genre, and themes, sure.

 

However, if people are generally bothered that these things aren't in a game, then I say that Obsidian shouldn't include them.

That would be entirely for the wrong reasons, and it's not really important in a good story.

 

Additional question: Do I think this is a stupid poll for even having to ask this question? Yes. I feel embarrassed. Almost to the

point where I don't want any violence in this game until some of you grow up. Real people have been raped. They play games

to chill out, and to relax after a hard day at work. The word 'rape' alone is a powerful phrase to make many victims instantly

and uncontrollably feel extremely bad. I don't know any victims personally, but I've read some papers here, some articles written by victims there,

and there is no reason that this fun, fantasy strategy game needs the things mentioned in the poll here, especially the way they are formulated here..

If you are one who REALLY want to see stuff like this, I don't think Obsidian should include it, because some of you have some growing up to do.

 

"Well, you strategically kill people in this game. That's wrong too!"

 

Yes, but most of the time, games framed those kills in a way that is justified and be pondered if they truly were the most ethical option at the time. If they're not, well, those who are killed in real life aren't here anymore to complain that they find it offensive.

 

Raping people however is always wrong. And people who have been raped are still here, and they aren't threatening us not to talk about it, but that's exactly why I think we can tone it down by just not saying stuff like: "I want to see rape."

 

I'm not coming back to look at this thread. Take it for what it is. Feel free to redicule or argue against this, but this is one poll I'm not voting on.

 

You do have a good argument and I can only imagine what the PTSD after such an event such as a raping must feel like. I also have to agree that having rape in here for the sake of rape is immature and desensitizes the tender subject. I think what the original poster was trying to get at when he included rape in his list of "Hard Realism" is, yes, **** like that happens all of the time. If you want a genuinely realist game then the action of rape should be plausible, as should cold blooded killings or other acts of inhumanity. They should not be glorified or focused upon by any means, but they should still have the potential of being there.

 

As for your remark on people playing games to have fun and relax, there is definitely a lot of truth in this but I think you're missing an important addition. Another huge emphasis in games, especially rpg games is on the story. People play games like these in the same way people read novels, to enter into another realm and connect with the characters in there. The reason why rapings and other brutal events are included (most of the time) is because they are powerful plot drivers due to the sheer amount of pain and emotion one feels from them. They should not happen all of the time by any means but they can serve a purpose in plot and character development.

[exodiark]

So, how socially realistic do you desire the Eternity world will be ?

Note that choosing "Hard realism" doesn't mean there will be gore, sex, etc every 60 seconds, but only when artistically needed.

 

EDIT: fixed the polls.

"Brutal Realism" is now "Hard Realism"

 

How about a mature setting without ****ing RAPE?

 

I agree, in a game that's not something most players would want to be presented with, I would think. Games are an escape medium, so I don't really want all the gritty realism and terrible things going on in the real world in a game I'm playing.

 

I am also not sure that there is an "artistic need" for rape, especially with active player involvement.

 

Oh there is. There are many literature with characters undergo great character developments after those characters witnessed or experienced a terrible horror, including rape.

 

This doesn't mean you have to rape or something, you might be a newcomer in a VERY chaotic town, and seeing people raped in back alley might set the intended mood of the city. Or it might give you a powerful reason to be a hero and kill every crime lords in the town, or anything really, it depends on your interpretation.

Edited September 19, 2012 by exodiark

[exodiark]

Wow.. This isn't a question of realism. I think the expression you're looking for is: "How edgy can this game be?"

That's how sleazy marketting-agents think. They try to find what kids like and then exploit it. And kids often like

things that should appeal to those older than them. That's what's usually 'cool', or 'edgy'.

 

So, edgy has very little to do with realism or maturity, especially maturity. Those are two powerful, seperate terms

that can enhance a story. Violence, rape, child killings, are mature themes, but those things alone don't make a good story.

Anyone using those tools in a story should have a good reason to do so, and not for a casual wow-factor.

 

Do I think these violent things can be included to the story? Yes, if it serves the story, genre, and themes, sure.

 

However, if people are generally bothered that these things aren't in a game, then I say that Obsidian shouldn't include them.

That would be entirely for the wrong reasons, and it's not really important in a good story.

 

Additional question: Do I think this is a stupid poll for even having to ask this question? Yes. I feel embarrassed. Almost to the

point where I don't want any violence in this game until some of you grow up. Real people have been raped. They play games

to chill out, and to relax after a hard day at work. The word 'rape' alone is a powerful phrase to make many victims instantly

and uncontrollably feel extremely bad. I don't know any victims personally, but I've read some papers here, some articles written by victims there,

and there is no reason that this fun, fantasy strategy game needs the things mentioned in the poll here, especially the way they are formulated here..

If you are one who REALLY want to see stuff like this, I don't think Obsidian should include it, because some of you have some growing up to do.

 

"Well, you strategically kill people in this game. That's wrong too!"

 

Yes, but most of the time, games framed those kills in a way that is justified and be pondered if they truly were the most ethical option at the time. If they're not, well, those who are killed in real life aren't here anymore to complain that they find it offensive.

 

Raping people however is always wrong. And people who have been raped are still here, and they aren't threatening us not to talk about it, but that's exactly why I think we can tone it down by just not saying stuff like: "I want to see rape."

 

I'm not coming back to look at this thread. Take it for what it is. Feel free to redicule or argue against this, but this is one poll I'm not voting on.

 

Well with hard realism, I don't promote rape for the sake of rape. I don't want it to be edgy for the sake of edgy.

I simply promote the idea of a more realistic game, if your character see child killing, he will explicitly see child killing, just like IRL. If you see kids dying in real life, does your life suddenly fade to black? Well, might be if you passed out, but you get the idea.

 

In short, I don't have malicious ideas or agendas.

However I agree that not everybody will like Hard Realism, that's why I added other choices in the poll

[pseudonymous]

I respectfully disagree, movies like SAW won't be as powerful with innuendos alone

Sometimes, you just have to show it to shock people, expose them with raw emotions.

 

Do yourself a favor and buy Alfred Hitch****'s "Psycho" then revisit this idea; it is possible to powerfully shock people by leaving things to the imagination.

 

Edit: That has got to be the single dumbest censoring macro ever...

Edited September 19, 2012 by pseudonymous

[Chunkyman]

I voted for option 1. I like it to be like real life, not watered down to make it family friendly. I'm hoping for as much realism (in terms of showing horrific events) as the A Song of Ice and Fire series has.

 

^LMFAO at the "Hitch****" censor.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Chunkyman

[exodiark]

I went with Tamed Reality, no matter how unpopular the option seems.

 

Realism != grimdark. Sure OP says that "choosing Hard realism doesn't mean there will be gore, sex, etc every 60 seconds, but only when artistically needed", but these are still the examples he used in the poll to describe what he intends by realism. And that, I think, shows how mature his idea of "hard realism" really is, that other comment aside.

 

I don't want my RPGs to shy away from themes such as the atrocities of war, fanaticism, culture clashes leading to racism and bigotism, the pains of loss, sacrifice and betrayal, and how one's choices have far-reaching consequences and all that good stuff. and all that good stuff. Let's not pretend rape and genocide doesn't happen, but anything "WTF-worthy" is, I believe, unnecessary and (counter-intuitively) completely immature. More often than not, it's handled in poor taste and feels completely forced, as if the authors are looking at the player saying "Oh yeah. We went there. Deal with it." while feeling so cool and edgy.

 

Adult themes aren't necessarily about darkness and horror. The world isn't actually like that. OP's idea of hard realism is basically porn. Pure unnecessary gratification.

 

Um no, I do not equate adult themes with horror and darkness. To quote myself:

"There are wonderful things out there, but there are no sugar-coating the ugly truths either. Just like IRL."

 

Just think of it like this,

In real life, if you see kids dying, you will explicitly see kids dying right? Your life won't suddenly fade to black or something.

But how often you see kids dying? Most of the time in your life you will be surrounded by your loving friends/family/cats/etc, drinking favorite beers, playing exciting video games, travelling abroad, and experiencing many happy moments.

 

But when you see kids dying, you see kids writhing.

 

Such is the game with hard realism. Brutal, like life itself.

[Vin]

It's weird to come onto a forum on the Internet about video games and find so many people opposed to rape being used as a narrative device. And I have to agree. Because, first of all, rape isn't really something that should even be remotely considered as a possible narrative device. I'm not really against dark and gritty realism. I'm a writer myself and as my sister likes to point out I have some incredibly grim, gritty, and hopeless stories.

But as it's been posted before, edgy and gritty for the sake of being edgy and gritty is cheap.

Rape is an incredibly serious subject that should be handled gently, not plastered in all its horrifying detail onto someone's TV or computer screen to illicit an emotional response or to convince this gamer that this game isn't going to pull its punches: it's visceral, it's "realistic."

It's offensive.

 

I'm not against gritty realism. But it shouldn't be used as a shock factor. As some others have posted, the imagination is or can be just as powerful -- sometimes more so -- as being shown the full effect.

A dark, atmospheric and mature story is one thing.

But there's a thin line there between that and stories that want to be that, but just fall short.

 

And, as a more personal personal opinion, the whole "dark fantasy" charm is starting to wear thin with me.

[DYWYPI]

I want something that feels like BG, or IWD, or a typical PnP game. These games are not about being brutal, or edgy, they're about telling a story and giving you an adventure. We don't need a Warhammer Fantasy fanfiction here - I want a world that can be described as "vibrant", not "gritty". Extremes should be present, yes, but they're only extreme if the norm is... well, not extreme. Sell me a setting as being interesting, unique, or lively, please; while the presence of mature themes is not a problem when used correctly for impact, those who settings specifically sold as "mature and gritty!" appeal to are those who are less mature, not more.

 

And in particular, no rape, please. It's gotten to the point where talking about rape seems to be the modern teenager equivalent to talking about farts in the elementary school playground and giggling.

Edited September 19, 2012 by DYWYPI

[exodiark]

I respectfully disagree, movies like SAW won't be as powerful with innuendos alone

Sometimes, you just have to show it to shock people, expose them with raw emotions.

 

Do yourself a favor and buy Alfred Hitch****'s "Psycho" then revisit this idea; it is possible to powerfully shock people by leaving things to the imagination.

 

Edit: That has got to be the single dumbest censoring macro ever...

 

I loled at the censoring XD

 

I agree, but I disagree with this "tool A is better than tool B" sentiments.

Both explicit expositions and innuendos are story-telling tools, some people craft better story with explicit expositions while others craft better story with innuendos. Alfred might be this master of innuendos, but that doesn't mean there are no jobs for explicit expositions.

Edited September 19, 2012 by exodiark

[Maddas]

Hard realism. There will be EXPLICIT racism, rape, child killings, sociopathic disorder, cannibalism in poor areas, and many other taboos. There are wonderful things out there, but there are no sugar-coating the ugly truths either. Just like IRL.

 

I'd vote for "Hard realism", but last I checked, most third-world nations, hell, most tribal and 'barbaric' regions of the world -- both present day and historically, didn't come chock full of "racism, rape, child killings, sociopathic disorder, and cannibalism" around every corner. And in poorer areas, I'd wager, people are more concerned with day-to-day survival rather than "Who do I rape and kill and eat next?"

 

There's nothing "wrong" with a fantasy setting that has some or all of these things somewhere in the world, but no, I'm not interested in playing "J.R.R. Tolkien Presents: Mad Max vs. SAW VII" -- and I don't see why the choices have to be split among these options.

[exodiark]

It's weird to come onto a forum on the Internet about video games and find so many people opposed to rape being used as a narrative device. And I have to agree. Because, first of all, rape isn't really something that should even be remotely considered as a possible narrative device. I'm not really against dark and gritty realism. I'm a writer myself and as my sister likes to point out I have some incredibly grim, gritty, and hopeless stories.

But as it's been posted before, edgy and gritty for the sake of being edgy and gritty is cheap.

Rape is an incredibly serious subject that should be handled gently, not plastered in all its horrifying detail onto someone's TV or computer screen to illicit an emotional response or to convince this gamer that this game isn't going to pull its punches: it's visceral, it's "realistic."

It's offensive.

 

I'm not against gritty realism. But it shouldn't be used as a shock factor. As some others have posted, the imagination is or can be just as powerful -- sometimes more so -- as being shown the full effect.

A dark, atmospheric and mature story is one thing.

But there's a thin line there between that and stories that want to be that, but just fall short.

 

And, as a more personal personal opinion, the whole "dark fantasy" charm is starting to wear thin with me.

 

Well, it doesn't have to be a whole game and it doesn't have to be rape.

I mean, if you're going to a pirate-infested town, what will you get? Explicit drunks, explicit kid slavery, explicit gore maybe, explicit many others. But will the other towns be like this? Of course not, the other towns might have better law enforcement. Maybe overall, the world is a beautiful place to live.

 

I mean, look at Las Vegas. It's vibrant, colorful sleepless city.

You can see the city prospered and and you can have a great time in it.

But if you ventured into its underground societies and criminal factions, of course you will also see lots of horrible things. But that only happens IF you ventured and explored them further.

[Vin]

It's weird to come onto a forum on the Internet about video games and find so many people opposed to rape being used as a narrative device. And I have to agree. Because, first of all, rape isn't really something that should even be remotely considered as a possible narrative device. I'm not really against dark and gritty realism. I'm a writer myself and as my sister likes to point out I have some incredibly grim, gritty, and hopeless stories.

But as it's been posted before, edgy and gritty for the sake of being edgy and gritty is cheap.

Rape is an incredibly serious subject that should be handled gently, not plastered in all its horrifying detail onto someone's TV or computer screen to illicit an emotional response or to convince this gamer that this game isn't going to pull its punches: it's visceral, it's "realistic."

It's offensive.

 

I'm not against gritty realism. But it shouldn't be used as a shock factor. As some others have posted, the imagination is or can be just as powerful -- sometimes more so -- as being shown the full effect.

A dark, atmospheric and mature story is one thing.

But there's a thin line there between that and stories that want to be that, but just fall short.

 

And, as a more personal personal opinion, the whole "dark fantasy" charm is starting to wear thin with me.

 

Well, it doesn't have to be a whole game and it doesn't have to be rape.

I mean, if you're going to a pirate-infested town, what will you get? Explicit drunks, explicit kid slavery, explicit gore maybe, explicit many others. But will the other towns be like this? Of course not, the other towns might have better law enforcement. Maybe overall, the world is a beautiful place to live.

 

I mean, look at Las Vegas. It's vibrant, colorful sleepless city.

You can see the city prospered and and you can have a great time in it.

But if you ventured into its underground societies and criminal factions, of course you will also see lots of horrible things. But that only happens IF you ventured and explored them further.

 

And as I said, I have nothing wrong with that. Bring on the filthy, pirate-infested dens of sin.

It's when the game goes overboard and slaps the player in the face with how absolutely "hardcore" it is. Then it becomes gimmicky and false. Like a plastic toy someone painted to look dirty. It may appear to gritty and dark, but then you scrape the paint off and it's just plastic. Does that make sense?

I'd go into further detail, but it's twelve in the morning and I can feel my brain leaking out through my eyes.

As long as it's not so ridiculously explicit that it takes away the realism that comes with real poverty, and real depravity and makes them into little more than a tool to give a video game -- or a book -- a dark and dismal atmosphere. I'm more for implicit poverty and depravity. Subtext is art's best friend.

 

Edit: On a side note -- although, not so much really, since you brought it up -- a city like you described, like Las Vegas, with a seedy and violent underbelly, is something that I would very much love, now that I think about it.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Vin

[PsychoBlonde]

I don't get how it's more "realistic" to include the bad stuff. Where I live, having any of that stuff would be supremely unrealistic, because this is BoringLawabidingsville. And cannibalism as a result of being poor? No. As a result of being extremely lost in the wilderness, maybe, however even in areas where the diet is perforce unusually low in protein, you generally only get cannibalism if there is a cultural or religious significance thing surrounding it. Sometimes you get it when people are high as a kite. Cannibalism when you're simply malnourished is actually contra-survival because malnourishment mostly kills through disease, and you can get INCREDIBLY sick from eating other human beings.

 

It is the nature of a game that you can only view or visit a very tiny fraction of the theoretical overall world, so your chances of encountering horrors should (statistically) be pretty low. You could argue that you will naturally only be visiting the loci where horrors are pretty usual, though, because horrors are somewhat of an adventurer stock-in-trade. So there's no real way to determine what the statistical incidence of horrors ought "realistically" to be.

 

So, this isn't a realism poll, it's a poll about how gritty you want the game to be. I won't even say dark because a game without explicit anything can be HORRIBLY dark and depressing, whereas games with buckets of dismembered babies flying about and people dropping the f-bomb every other word can be laugh-out-loud comical. (Watching characters get gibbed in BG was pretty laughable, for instance.)

 

I'll be happy if they do some good moments of serious misery--and also some ones of serious triumph. The squick isn't really necessary either way, it just depends on whether you want to incorporate some shock value into a given moment.

[exodiark]

It's weird to come onto a forum on the Internet about video games and find so many people opposed to rape being used as a narrative device. And I have to agree. Because, first of all, rape isn't really something that should even be remotely considered as a possible narrative device. I'm not really against dark and gritty realism. I'm a writer myself and as my sister likes to point out I have some incredibly grim, gritty, and hopeless stories.

But as it's been posted before, edgy and gritty for the sake of being edgy and gritty is cheap.

Rape is an incredibly serious subject that should be handled gently, not plastered in all its horrifying detail onto someone's TV or computer screen to illicit an emotional response or to convince this gamer that this game isn't going to pull its punches: it's visceral, it's "realistic."

It's offensive.

 

I'm not against gritty realism. But it shouldn't be used as a shock factor. As some others have posted, the imagination is or can be just as powerful -- sometimes more so -- as being shown the full effect.

A dark, atmospheric and mature story is one thing.

But there's a thin line there between that and stories that want to be that, but just fall short.

 

And, as a more personal personal opinion, the whole "dark fantasy" charm is starting to wear thin with me.

 

Well, it doesn't have to be a whole game and it doesn't have to be rape.

I mean, if you're going to a pirate-infested town, what will you get? Explicit drunks, explicit kid slavery, explicit gore maybe, explicit many others. But will the other towns be like this? Of course not, the other towns might have better law enforcement. Maybe overall, the world is a beautiful place to live.

 

I mean, look at Las Vegas. It's vibrant, colorful sleepless city.

You can see the city prospered and and you can have a great time in it.

But if you ventured into its underground societies and criminal factions, of course you will also see lots of horrible things. But that only happens IF you ventured and explored them further.

 

And as I said, I have nothing wrong with that. Bring on the filthy, pirate-infested dens of sin.

It's when the game goes overboard and slaps the player in the face with how absolutely "hardcore" it is. Then it becomes gimmicky and false. Like a plastic toy someone painted to look dirty. It may appear to gritty and dark, but then you scrape the paint off and it's just plastic. Does that make sense?

I'd go into further detail, but it's twelve in the morning and I can feel my brain leaking out through my eyes.

As long as it's not so ridiculously explicit that it takes away the realism that comes with real poverty, and real depravity and makes them into little more than a tool to give a video game -- or a book -- a dark and dismal atmosphere. I'm more for implicit poverty and depravity. Subtext is art's best friend.

 

Edit: On a side note -- although, not so much really, since you brought it up -- a city like you described, like Las Vegas, with a seedy and violent underbelly, is something that I would very much love, now that I think about it.

 

 

I guess there are lines that must not be crossed after all

And yeah, I'd like to see cities like Las Vegas in video games. Now that's one complex city hahahhahaha XD

[Vin]

It's weird to come onto a forum on the Internet about video games and find so many people opposed to rape being used as a narrative device. And I have to agree. Because, first of all, rape isn't really something that should even be remotely considered as a possible narrative device. I'm not really against dark and gritty realism. I'm a writer myself and as my sister likes to point out I have some incredibly grim, gritty, and hopeless stories.

But as it's been posted before, edgy and gritty for the sake of being edgy and gritty is cheap.

Rape is an incredibly serious subject that should be handled gently, not plastered in all its horrifying detail onto someone's TV or computer screen to illicit an emotional response or to convince this gamer that this game isn't going to pull its punches: it's visceral, it's "realistic."

It's offensive.

 

I'm not against gritty realism. But it shouldn't be used as a shock factor. As some others have posted, the imagination is or can be just as powerful -- sometimes more so -- as being shown the full effect.

A dark, atmospheric and mature story is one thing.

But there's a thin line there between that and stories that want to be that, but just fall short.

 

And, as a more personal personal opinion, the whole "dark fantasy" charm is starting to wear thin with me.

 

Well, it doesn't have to be a whole game and it doesn't have to be rape.

I mean, if you're going to a pirate-infested town, what will you get? Explicit drunks, explicit kid slavery, explicit gore maybe, explicit many others. But will the other towns be like this? Of course not, the other towns might have better law enforcement. Maybe overall, the world is a beautiful place to live.

 

I mean, look at Las Vegas. It's vibrant, colorful sleepless city.

You can see the city prospered and and you can have a great time in it.

But if you ventured into its underground societies and criminal factions, of course you will also see lots of horrible things. But that only happens IF you ventured and explored them further.

 

And as I said, I have nothing wrong with that. Bring on the filthy, pirate-infested dens of sin.

It's when the game goes overboard and slaps the player in the face with how absolutely "hardcore" it is. Then it becomes gimmicky and false. Like a plastic toy someone painted to look dirty. It may appear to gritty and dark, but then you scrape the paint off and it's just plastic. Does that make sense?

I'd go into further detail, but it's twelve in the morning and I can feel my brain leaking out through my eyes.

As long as it's not so ridiculously explicit that it takes away the realism that comes with real poverty, and real depravity and makes them into little more than a tool to give a video game -- or a book -- a dark and dismal atmosphere. I'm more for implicit poverty and depravity. Subtext is art's best friend.

 

Edit: On a side note -- although, not so much really, since you brought it up -- a city like you described, like Las Vegas, with a seedy and violent underbelly, is something that I would very much love, now that I think about it.

 

 

I guess there are lines that must not be crossed after all

And yeah, I'd like to see cities like Las Vegas in video games. Now that's one complex city hahahhahaha XD

 

Also -- shiny.

Which, in a dark fantasy setting, would be a very welcome change.

[exodiark]

I don't get how it's more "realistic" to include the bad stuff. Where I live, having any of that stuff would be supremely unrealistic, because this is BoringLawabidingsville. And cannibalism as a result of being poor? No. As a result of being extremely lost in the wilderness, maybe, however even in areas where the diet is perforce unusually low in protein, you generally only get cannibalism if there is a cultural or religious significance thing surrounding it. Sometimes you get it when people are high as a kite. Cannibalism when you're simply malnourished is actually contra-survival because malnourishment mostly kills through disease, and you can get INCREDIBLY sick from eating other human beings.

 

It is the nature of a game that you can only view or visit a very tiny fraction of the theoretical overall world, so your chances of encountering horrors should (statistically) be pretty low. You could argue that you will naturally only be visiting the loci where horrors are pretty usual, though, because horrors are somewhat of an adventurer stock-in-trade. So there's no real way to determine what the statistical incidence of horrors ought "realistically" to be.

 

So, this isn't a realism poll, it's a poll about how gritty you want the game to be. I won't even say dark because a game without explicit anything can be HORRIBLY dark and depressing, whereas games with buckets of dismembered babies flying about and people dropping the f-bomb every other word can be laugh-out-loud comical. (Watching characters get gibbed in BG was pretty laughable, for instance.)

 

I'll be happy if they do some good moments of serious misery--and also some ones of serious triumph. The squick isn't really necessary either way, it just depends on whether you want to incorporate some shock value into a given moment.

 

I agree, those horrible things should not come often (maybe just once or twice) in hard realism, just like IRL.

But when they come, they come in HD, no fade-to-black, just like IRL. That's the idea of hard realism, so yes, it's closer to realism, not just gritty for the sake of being gritty. Even life won't drop dying kids in front of your door without reasons, right?

 

Well, you are supposed to be an adventurer in this game, so there will be weird things along the road. So it's plausible and "realistic" for your character to see one or two of those horrible things in this game, especially if he/she visited a pirate-infested town.

 

About cannibalism, well those starving people are simply too hungry to think and don't want to die either, so they eat anything that moves. There are reported cases from around the world, for example, like China in the Great Leap Forward or Russia.

[Gurkog]

if by realism you mean stone monkey statues flinging rock poo at people.... hmmm sounds good to me.

[DarthAdamRG]

Hard realism, if the game is going to be marketed at the mature, make it mature.

[Umberlin]

I don't get how it's more "realistic" to include the bad stuff. Where I live, having any of that stuff would be supremely unrealistic, because this is BoringLawabidingsville. And cannibalism as a result of being poor? No. As a result of being extremely lost in the wilderness, maybe, however even in areas where the diet is perforce unusually low in protein, you generally only get cannibalism if there is a cultural or religious significance thing surrounding it. Sometimes you get it when people are high as a kite. Cannibalism when you're simply malnourished is actually contra-survival because malnourishment mostly kills through disease, and you can get INCREDIBLY sick from eating other human beings.

 

It is the nature of a game that you can only view or visit a very tiny fraction of the theoretical overall world, so your chances of encountering horrors should (statistically) be pretty low. You could argue that you will naturally only be visiting the loci where horrors are pretty usual, though, because horrors are somewhat of an adventurer stock-in-trade. So there's no real way to determine what the statistical incidence of horrors ought "realistically" to be.

 

So, this isn't a realism poll, it's a poll about how gritty you want the game to be. I won't even say dark because a game without explicit anything can be HORRIBLY dark and depressing, whereas games with buckets of dismembered babies flying about and people dropping the f-bomb every other word can be laugh-out-loud comical. (Watching characters get gibbed in BG was pretty laughable, for instance.)

 

I'll be happy if they do some good moments of serious misery--and also some ones of serious triumph. The squick isn't really necessary either way, it just depends on whether you want to incorporate some shock value into a given moment.

 

Good point about the poll being more about how gritty or not gritty . . .

 

-

 

On the point of your community, though, who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Sad but true things, that's what, far more often than most decent people would prefer. I'd agree it wouldn't be realistic for such things to be happening constantly on the street, unless you stumbled onto a village of cannibals, then I guess it'd make sense that they'd not find eating people offensive. Bleh. The behind closed doors point was, you know, pointed, if you find something terrible, especially in a area in the game world with laws against 'whatever bad thing we're talking about' then it would be hidden. A mystery, a crime, you've unraveled and so on and so forth.

 

Then of course there are questions of what the game world considered moral and immoral. A good example is slavery, since anyone that played Morrowind knows slavery was just a reality in that particular area. If something isn't illegal then, well, it wouldn't be hidden.I suppose what I'm getting at are that such things, if present at all, are a sort of case by case basis in regard to what's proper for the game world, and, of course, different areas of the game world that might have different laws from one another.

 

I'm not really disagreeing with you obviously, just talking.

[Gurkog]

A lot of meth heads and illegal immigrants living in ditches around here. Ever watch a family bath in a mud puddle in a public park, after picking out the used syringes and other trash? There could be something similar in the game... but I am not anxious to see that stuff in my breaks from reality.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Gurkog

[LadyCrimson]

I think that there should be the freedom for their to be full realism, but it would probably have more off an impact if it were subdued, or at least not completely in your face. When that happens, there's a chance that you'll just be taken out of it because you'll distance yourself from whatever is happening on screen.

Completely agreed. One doesn't have to be overtly explicit about such things in order to show that the world isn't a perfect place, or to have a compelling, adult narrative that doesn't feel like Barney-world. At the least, keep the in-your-face stuff limited to only a few scenarios (thus having more impact since they aren't commonplace occurrences).

[Brother Pain]

I thought this poll would be around realism vs. fun (as in using hit points versus having to spend weeks or months in a hospital after getting shot or stabbed).

 

In the scope of "how many and which mature themes to put in the game" I vote all or most of them. Horrible things do happen, but in most cases, something like mass graves, child slavery, rape, etc. should be used sparingly, as a wake up call to show just how evil an otherwise ambigious faction or person is, rather than being flaunted in every scene and sentance to show just how "realistic" the game is.

In other words, put the narrative of the game over trying to be edgy or "realistic".

[dlux]

I really don't want to walk around in the game and explicitly see how children are brutally murdered or women are raped, etc. Seeing children screaming for help before they are BRUTALLY slain with blood splashing everywhere and a woman lying in the street crying while the pervert rapist is banging her...

 

No, that is just too much. While something like this could be in the game, I only want it to be implied - if at all. Having something as explicit as this is sick and perverted. Why would someone like to see that in a game? I don't get it. Do you guys want PE to be the most ****ed up game ever created just so it caters to perverted sickos? My god, please NO.

Edited September 19, 2012 by dlux

[silvercross]

Racism and rape and child killings and cannibalism and god knows what else. Seriously? Are we going for shock value now? I'm not one for censorship, but this demand for "realism" sounds more like a want for a "this game is so hardcore and mature cuz it's gots all these crazy ****."

 

And I'm also willing to bet some people here have been on the receiving end of rape. Just think about what some of you guys are saying.

Edited September 19, 2012 by silvercross