Chaz Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Something I really liked about titles like Neverwinter Nights or Dragon Age is that they allowed you to have a top down tactical view of the battlefield, but they also gave you the freedom to Zoom in, Zoom out, change the angle, maybe you'd like to have the camera closer while you are roaming or check out how the new armor looks in your character. I'd like to share a few screenshots (not taken by me) Or even THIS screenshot of Neverwinter Nights I think they show that you can be true to the classics like Planescape and still have something more modern like the freedom of camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Locked? Hopefully yes. Zoom can go to hell. 3 Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitron Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) In short, yes. The pitch video says "locked camera". No two ways around it. Edited September 17, 2012 by Infinitron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smejki Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) I don't mind free camera but prefer locked one. If you do free camera, don't, for god's sake, extend the details of environment only so that the game looks gorgeous also when zoomed. It is pointless when you spend 99% of playtime zoomed out. And by the way, camera sucked in Dungeon Siege 3. Edited September 17, 2012 by Smejki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 a locked camera allows the designers to create atmosphere akin to a movie director/cinemetographer. mise-en-scene etc its rarely used to good effect in video games though 2 Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueBurger Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 If when they say isometric, they mean true isometric projection, then no there would be no zoom or non-parallel camera movement at all. If, however, it will be running on a 3D engine with a isometric-like perspective, then there is the possibility of zoom. I prefer the former though. Me, summed up in less than 50 words: PHP | cRPGs | Daft Punk | Dominion | WKUK | Marvel Comics | INTP | Python | Symphonic Metal | Breakfast Tacos | Phenomenology | Cards Against Humanity | Awkward Hugs | Scott Pilgrim | Voluntaryism | Dave Chappelle | Calvin and Hobbes | Coffee | Doctor Who | TI-BASIC | eBooks | Jeans | Fantasy Short Stories | Soccer | Mac 'N Cheese | Stargate | Hegel | White Mountains | SNES | Booty Swing | Avocado | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solivagant Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) NWN 2's zoomable camera was very much hated and reviled. DA:O did a bit of a better job but the thing is, if the camera is unlocked, then the designers don't have a POV to draw to, and eventually playing is a nightmare of constantly readjusting the camera. I know how much I suffered playing DA:O and NWN2. I don't want that again. Edited September 17, 2012 by Solivagant Dragonblade of the Obsidian Order No sleep for the Watcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playgu Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 a locked camera allows the designers to create atmosphere akin to a movie director/cinemetographer. mise-en-scene etc its rarely used to good effect in video games though One of the few things Diablo III got right. Some areas have extreme level of detail because of the locked isometric perspective. I know Diablo III doesn't technically have locked camera, since you can zoom a little bit in and out, but it hardly changes the perspective at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) I know how much I suffered playing DA:O and NWN2. I don't want that again. You "suffered" playing those games? hu... ok? I think it can be done, even Wasteland 2 that will have isometric view will let you a little, I'm not sure what's the big deal. Edited September 17, 2012 by Chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vattghern Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 if camera absolutely must be locked due to 2d backgrounds, at least let us inspect the avatars close up from any angle on the character screen they said models would be 3d so that should be easily doable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goran Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Locked camera on 2D painted backgrounds. No camera rotation, no zoom. Old school all the way Edited September 17, 2012 by Goran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboy12 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I prefer to keep it completely isometric. I did like neverwinter nights but keep in mind this game is a 6 member party games and I don't want the gameplay to be so simple as to be able to zoom in on a single player and still play. I want combat to be complex and require the control of every party member. This should be purely locked as isometric and that's it. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitron Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Feargus has mentioned some kind of new rendering technique I believe, so maybe zoom will be implemented somehow. I wouldn't count on it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 if camera absolutely must be locked due to 2d backgrounds, at least let us inspect the avatars close up from any angle on the character screen they said models would be 3d so that should be easily doable The Sims is an entirely different franchise. Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) There's pros and cons to locked and free-camera, so to me it just depends on the game. From what little information we have, I think I prefer the locked down camera in this instance. That said, if the budget/time allowed, I wouldn't mind a vanity-zoom. One level of zoom that's largely for admiring yourself/details/screenshots but not good for actually playing. Doesn't have to be rotating/free-camera zoom to be satisfying for a vanity-look cam. Edited September 17, 2012 by LadyCrimson 1 “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tychoxi Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) As long as they hand us a "relock" camera key so I can always go the default angle/zoom with ease I have no problems with this. I do like rotating the camera during combat. But yeah, if it's really 2D backgrounds, then rotation is out of the question, and zooming, while doable with 2D, is something I find useful but don't care so much about. To clarify, by "angle" I mean rotation, not going away from isometric. While I'm not oppossed to such a free camera, I like me them isometric views! When you can change the angle away from isometric into basically any point of view the thing is bound to bump into objects or the view is suddenly "pushed" by hitting the wall that's now behind the camera (see the "relock" button thing I said above) and returning to an angle you enjoy can also be difficult (again refer to "relock" button). I prefer to keep it completely isometric. I did like neverwinter nights but keep in mind this game is a 6 member party games and I don't want the gameplay to be so simple as to be able to zoom in on a single player and still play. I want combat to be complex and require the control of every party member. This should be purely locked as isometric and that's it. Just my 2 cents. "zooming" includes zooming out too! Edited September 17, 2012 by Tychoxi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solivagant Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) I know how much I suffered playing DA:O and NWN2. I don't want that again. You "suffered" playing those games? hu... ok? I think it can be done, even Wasteland 2 that will have isometric view will let you a little, I'm not sure what's the big deal. Yeah I suffered, you won't believe I often I would change the camera position in NWN2. Example: It's a tunnel? Ok, lemme put in a third person over the shoulder view, cause otherwise the walls don't let me the scenery. Oh now its an open area? I'm going to zoom out and go all isometric style. Now it's a tunnel again? Ok third person, zoom in, fiddle a bit, there. Ok zooming out again, but now I can't see much forward properly. I would do this for hours, and then panning and rotating the camera so it would follow the character. It's a pain. Just give me a fixed camera. EDIT: I'm fine with Zoom, just don't allow rotation. Edited September 17, 2012 by Solivagant Dragonblade of the Obsidian Order No sleep for the Watcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolaldanee Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 NWN 2's zoomable camera was very much hated and reviled. DA:O did a bit of a better job but the thing is, if the camera is unlocked, then the designers don't have a POV to draw to, and eventually playing is a nightmare of constantly readjusting the camera. I know how much I suffered playing DA:O and NWN2. I don't want that again. i agree on the NWN 2 part - but then again, tell me a single obsidian game that didn't suck big time when it comes to camera movement (except the 2d games of course) but Dragon Age? the camera was perfect there (ok, too close in DA2 but the first one was superb) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solivagant Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 but Dragon Age? the camera was perfect there (ok, too close in DA2 but the first one was superb) It was much better but I still flayed it with a lot! I aimed to play the game at an isometric viewpoint but I couldn't see anything in front of me like that, also the panning wasn't great, not as permissive as Baldur's Gate. I liked The Witcher's implementation, I'll give you that. Dragonblade of the Obsidian Order No sleep for the Watcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwars Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I recently replayed Dragon Age and while I enjoy that game a lot, I think the camera is painful to work sometimes. Especially when it changes zoom level when you walk underneath something. Don't get me wrong, I get the appeal of "free camera movement" like in NWN2 and DA:O but it brings with it a lot of development trouble and a lot of complaining from people. If you have the locked camera, you also "only" have to make sure that the game looks good from one point of view. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to some minor zooming controls. Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Didn't Titan Quest have a locked camera? Or wait.. I think you could zoom a little but not rotate it. Anyhow, not much of an issue for me either way. I've enjoyed games utilizing both camera choices. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enclave Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Go play Baldur's Gate. Shows just how awesome a fixed camera can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 That said, I wouldn't be opposed to some minor zooming controls. Well, if we can at least get that, I'll be happy. I didn't know that scrolling the mouse wheel was a such a HUGE issue for self proclaimed veteran gamers, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashendare Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I myself prefer to have moveable cameras. I've played some games that did it well, and others that didn't. the ones that did it well did it one of 2 ways. 1. more of an action style game play (ie witcher) which won't work well for this being an party base game 2. where you could zoom in/out any time you wanted and walls/ceilings/trees/etc became translucent if they were blocking the character, and there was view angle adjustment, but if you started moving, it would slowly revert back to a default view angle that the devs chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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