My turn.

[Sammael]

PREAMBLE: alright, this is going to be a long, long, LOOOOOOOONG post. I haven't done one of these in forever. You have been warned. This is just part 1, part two is coming at a later point.

 

What follows is a list of my views on what Project: Eternity should be. I will analyze the system, the setting, as well as the gameplay aspect of the game, with a very brief nod to technical stuff (because, let's face it, technical stuff is really not up to us, unlike the other things which we may actually have a chance of influencing).

 

ENGINE AND GRAPHICS

Let's get that technical stuff out of the way right now. What I expect to see is a modern isometric 3D engine capable of rendering backgrounds with a level of detail equal to that of the Infinity Engine games. The final result should be somewhat similar to TBH and F3. Camera rotation is not a must (though it can certainly exist). Zooming in and out is a must, though I do not want to see a perspective change when you zoom in all the way). Characters should be highly detailed 3D models that support a large number of layers for clothing and accessories. If the budget permits, portraits should be old school 2D painted portraits, with an option to use the character model's head for those who prefer that style.

 

SOUNDS AND VOICE ACTING

Please, don't go into the whole 3D sound/surround sound crap. It causes more trouble than it's worth, and it's effect in miniscule. Voice acting should be limited to the most important NPCs and, if the budget permits, CNPCs. I'd sure Robin Williams, Will Wheaton, and Vin Diesel would do some cheap voice work if asked nicely, being D&D fans and all.

 

MUSIC

Whoever ends up being the primary composer, at least one track composed by every composer who worked on IE games: Morgan, Hoenig, Zur, and Soule.

 

USER INTERFACE

A combination of graphical UI (as refined for IWD) and contextual UI should be used. Contextual menus hide the unnecessary UI complexity until needed; right click on the door to get the options to Listen, Force open, Bash, or Pick lock. right click on an NPC to get the options to Observe, Start conversation, Attack, Distract, or Steal; right click on an enemy in combat to get a list of spells you can cast that can affect that enemy. However, make sure not to make the context menus bloated with too many options (avoid context submenus like the plague), and include customizable keyboard shortcuts for frequently used options.

 

LEVEL CAP

Limit the character progression (if the system is level based, cap it at 1/3 of the maximum level you intend to implement in the future, and make sure the majority of the game is spent exploring the "sweet spot" - e.g. levels 3-9 in earlier iterations of D&D).

 

THE SYSTEM

I'd go for a classless, skill-based system myself (similar to SPECIAL). Failing that, go for a class-based, skill-dependent system with robust multiclassing options (I'll be happy to provide examples from my Fatebinder d20 system). Whatever you do, don't throw in too many classes, and don't even consider prestige classes.

 

If the system is class-based, make sure each class is unique, with its own set of mechanics. Make us wan to replay a game with a protagonist of a different class/build. Avoid at all costs the 4E paradigm where all classes have the exact same powers with different made-up names.

 

To reflect the 2nd AD&D roots, the system should be reasonably simulationist, with necessary gamist bits thrown in. It must make sense in the context of the world. Don't break our suspension of disbelief with crap like healing surges and clerics who can heal their team-mates only when they hit enemies over the head.

 

CLASSES

If a classless system is not possible, I suggest the following classes or derivatives thereof:

 

Tier 1 (must have) - Cleric, Fighter, Mage, Rogue

 

Tier 2 (would be nice) - Bard, Druid, Ranger

 

Tier 3 (could work) - Champion, Monk, Warlock

 

(I have several reasons for the above list, but I'm not going to go into details right now)

 

RACES

Whatever you do, don't make elves who are humans with pointy ears or dwarves who are humans with beards. Each race should have a very specific culture, and that culture should be reflected in dialogue options, quests, and general attitude of the world towards the character in question.

 

BACKGROUND

By all means, please include a list of backgrounds similar to the one in Arcanum.

 

ALIGNMENT

Just use the TBH reputation system. It's ****ing perfect. No alignment necessary.

 

SKILLS

A small list of focused skills that will actually be used by the game engine for various purposes is better than a large list of narrow skills. Here's a sample list:

 

Acrobatics

Alchemy

Arcane Lore

Animal and Plant Lore

Deception

Endurance

History

Insight

Perception

Persuasion

Monster Lore

Resolve

Stealth

Streetwise

Survival

Theology

Thievery

Tinkering

 

FEATS/PERKS

No reason not to include them, but please stay away from generic ones like +2 to this and that or +10% to blah blah.

 

SPELLS

This is very much tied to the world design. Some D&Disms would be nice, but others (Magic Missile, Fireball et al) should be avoided like the plague.

 

 

SCOPE

Limit the overall scope of the game. We don't need to save/destroy the world and stop an ancient evil from blah blah blah. Make the game about the protagonist and his companions, and the world around them should be just a backdrop. Start small and then expand; e.g. if the game starts in a city, limit the initial part of the game to one or two districts until the player gets the hang of the world and the events around him. Then switch to full sandbox mode, like in BG1, BG2 chapter 2, and FO1 and 2, and then narrow the sandbox down as the game nears its conclusion.

 

That's it for part 1 of my views, I'll continue tomorrow...

[entrerix]

i want a 2d game with glorious hand painted backgrounds. glorious.

[Sammael]

None of the IE games had hand-painted backgrounds. They were all rendered in 3D, then flattened, corrected, and adjusted for light levels.

[Metabot]

None of the IE games had hand-painted backgrounds. They were all rendered in 3D, then flattened, corrected, and adjusted for light levels.

 

That's not true at all.

 

also, "Zooming in and out is a must" couldn't take it too seriously after that.

[Meshugger]

Go on. This list is actually intruiging...

[Sammael]

That's not true at all.

 

also, "Zooming in and out is a must" couldn't take it too seriously after that.

Please decompile one of the IE games and look at its map resources.

[MReed]

None of the IE games had hand-painted backgrounds. They were all rendered in 3D, then flattened, corrected, and adjusted for light levels.

 

That's not true at all.

 

also, "Zooming in and out is a must" couldn't take it too seriously after that.

 

I hate to tell you that, but yes, its true -- all of the backgrounds in Infinity Engine games started life as 3D models. Someone even posted a screenshot of an IWD model (in wireframe) in a previous thread that touched on this topic. Beyond that, this is the the reason that BG:EE isn't BG:HD -- the original 3D-models for the area art were lost, so they couldn't be re-rendered at a higher resolution (which was the original plan).

 

With that being said, though, while 3D rendering techonlogy has expanded by leaps and bounds, it isn't necessarily true that it has improved to the point that absurdly high poly counts (that required hours and hours of rendering time back in the 90s) could be rendered in realtime today. I suspect that the state of the art today is "If we spend enough time in optimizing / compromising the 3D source art, we can create something that can be rendered in realtime and looks really good" -- if so, then Obsidian should go with pre-rendered backgrounds. The added options that real-time rendered 3D backgrounds would provide aren't worth investing additional time (that could go towards desigining other areas).

[Bill Gates' Son]

None of the IE games had hand-painted backgrounds. They were all rendered in 3D, then flattened, corrected, and adjusted for light levels.

 

That's not true at all.

 

also, "Zooming in and out is a must" couldn't take it too seriously after that.

e

 

I think you may need to get your eyes checked ; those images don't look hand drawn at all. Those background were clearly made by a 3d Engine and turned into images. If you played other pre rendered games like Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil, or Donkey Kong Country, then it's easy to notice.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Bill Gates' Son

[Zoraptor]

None of the IE games had hand-painted backgrounds. They were all rendered in 3D, then flattened, corrected, and adjusted for light levels.

 

That's not true at all.

Oh, it's true.

 

One of the earlier threads in this forum even had a picture of the Kuldahar area from IWD as a 3d wireframe mesh (dunno where they got it from, since Google Images can't seem to find it).

[Sammael]

No time for a longer post tonight, but I'll post a few things:

 

ECONOMY

Silver standard, please. The D&D gold-based economy doesn't work at all, never has, and never will. This is a purely semantic point in a computer game, but it would make me very happy. Gems and such should be used sparingly and preferably have additional uses in the game (other than being alternative currency).

 

MAGIC ITEMS

No generic +1 swords, thank you. Each magic item should be unique and valuable, adding more options to the player's arsenal rather than crude numerical bonuses. Some D&D staples should be present - Bags of Holding, Rods of Wonder, Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, etc - but they should all come with added twists and unique properties. In short, put some "magic" back into magic items.

 

And make sure item descriptions are evocative and fluffy, like in Torment and IWD1/2.

 

MAGIC SHOPS

There shouldn't be any. A wandering peddler of curiosities, sure. A master crafter whom you can commission for a hefty fee, sure. But Magic-Marts are a big no in my book.

 

CRAFTING

It's a waste of time for me, but I know a lot of people enjoy this type of stuff so it's probably a good idea to include it. Just make sure not to repeat the mistake Arcanum made with the bajillion components and recipes. If anything, I think Jagged Alliance 2 can be used as a model, with a few components that can be combined with common items for unusual effects.

 

ENCUMBRANCE

No inventory tetris, that's for damn sure. Make it somewhat abstract - for example, I use a system of encumbrance points that combine weight and bulkiness. Max encumbrance is dependent on your Constitution score and each point of encumbrance beyond your max reduces your speed by one point. Items have less encumbrance when worn then when carried in your backpack.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Sammael

[Semper]

you could have at least read what's already known... that's NOT project: make a wish.

also your scope of game needs a budget of 10+ mio. please ground your imagination to a realistic level.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Semper

[Sammael]

you could have at least read what's already known... that's NOT project: make a wish.

I can express my desires and opinions, as I have on these boards for a very long time. In the past, some of my opinions were actually taken into account (IWD2), and I will continue to offer them in case someone finds them useful.

 

Besides, that's what half the threads on these forums are, the other half being speculation.

[Monte Carlo]

I agree entirely on the character creation side of things, but we will disagree violently on phat lewt, what with me being a shameless Monty-Haul munchkin type an' all. Magic marts? Yes please.

[KennethTopp]

What is your opinion on a possible New game+ taking a already maxed out character and throwing him into the campaign again?

Edited September 18, 2012 by KennethTopp

[Sammael]

I agree entirely on the character creation side of things, but we will disagree violently on phat lewt, what with me being a shameless Monty-Haul munchkin type an' all. Magic marts? Yes please.

Hrm. Maybe we could meet somewhere in the middle? Magic Mini-Marts?

 

I know a lot of people enjoy magic shopping, but I'm not one of them. I'd much rather take my loot from the still-warm corpses of my enemies.

[Sammael]

What are your opinion on a possible New game+ taking a already maxed out character and throwing him into the campaign again?

Sure, why not - a Heart of Fury mode of sorts.

[Crosmando]

I asked Obsidian about the viewpoint question the other day on the Kickstarter page.

 

The answer was the backgrounds will be a combination of 2D with 3D objects, and the character models will also be 3D.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Crosmando

[Sammael]

I'm not seeing it in the FAQ, was it in the comments? Who replied?

[Crosmando]

Hi Crosmando,

You nailed it with the last thing you suggested - it is going to be a combination of 2D and 3D. Characters will be 3D and then the backgrounds are going to be a combination of 2D and 3D.

Thanks for the support and the question - feel free to keep them coming,

Feargus

[Sammael]

Cool, thanks for the info!