[Update 02.10.12] Project Eternity: Known Information

[Lephys]

They're not.... unless they're ridiculous hypothetical examples of something that never happens, but you're making them anyway in order to "prove" whatever crazy point you're trying to make. And that's exactly what you did.

 

In video games, Healing potions/spells provide instant healing to those who consume them. Thus, they are a viable, more creative alternative to an auto-health regeneration system. Period. You will never be able to overcome this fact, no matter what bizzare "hypothetical" you deign to dream up.

Well, since it does happen, I guess you disagree with yourself. Also, the quotations around "hypothetical" are unnecessary, since there is no doubt as to my proposed hypothetical scenario being hypothetical. *shrug*. Just thought you should know.

BS. Of course you were. Your whole point was centered around the notion that manually healing yourself up after a fight is a "waste of time", when we could, instead, simply have a system that automatically regenerates your health. So what better way to "prove" this than to come up with a hypothetical where potions take 5 minutes to work, then say: "See? why would anyone want to consume potions after a fight when they can just have a system that "does the same thing but does it automatically?".

 

<gag> Who are you kidding?

If you know what I mean, and I don't, then why even respond to me? Obviously I can't comprehend the very reason my own posts were delivered from my brain to my fingertips.

 

For what it's worth, "regeneration" only refers to the method by which health gradually replenishes. It in no way denotes the amount of health being replenished. One can regenerate a finger, or a whole liver, or every cell in one's body. Abstractly, one can regenerate 1 hitpoint, or infinite hitpoints, and anything in between. So, yes, for the 17th time, I was referring to the act of automatic regeneration only where healing was already available. Hence the health potion example. Which was hypothetical, to illustrate the complete pointlessness of non-instant out-side-of-combat healing.

 

Telling me what I mean by things serves no purpose whatsoever. Feel free to keep doing it, though. Who am I to tell you you can't do pointless things? u_u

[Stun]

 

They're not.... unless they're ridiculous hypothetical examples of something that never happens, but you're making them anyway in order to "prove" whatever crazy point you're trying to make. And that's exactly what you did.

 

In video games, Healing potions/spells provide instant healing to those who consume them. Thus, they are a viable, more creative alternative to an auto-health regeneration system. Period. You will never be able to overcome this fact, no matter what bizzare "hypothetical" you deign to dream up.

Well, since it does happen,

Really? It does? Where?

 

Cite me an example of an RPG where a Healing potion takes 5 minutes to work.

For what it's worth, "regeneration" only refers to the method by which health gradually replenishes. It in no way denotes the amount of health being replenished. One can regenerate a finger, or a whole liver, or every cell in one's body. Abstractly, one can regenerate 1 hitpoint, or infinite hitpoints, and anything in between. So, yes, for the 17th time, I was referring to the act of automatic regeneration only where healing was already available. Hence the health potion example. Which was hypothetical, to illustrate the complete pointlessness of non-instant out-side-of-combat healing.

Aah, the desperate, and pointless semantics argument is it? Actually, No, this is untrue. In the vast majority of RPGs (and especially in pen and paper) there's a distinct difference between limb and organ regeneration and health regeneration. in D&D there's actually seperate cleric spells that deal with the two different types. But, like I said, this is yet another pointless stream-of-consciousness subject change on your part. Health Regeneration is health regeneration, whether or not it happens instantly or slightly slower than instantly is irrelevant. it's inclusion in a game automatically eliminates the consequences associated with reckless combat behavior. Edited February 14, 2013 by Stun

[Lephys]

5 is an arbitrary number of minutes. I never said "a well-known RPG, in existence, has healing potions that actually take 5 minutes to work."

 

You yourself said "Why wouldn't healing potions be instant?" That's literally the point. It could be .000007 minutes, or it could be a million minutes. It doesn't matter. Hence the nature of a hypothetical example.

 

What does happen is that some games (which I already cited, so you can actually read if you'd like to know what they are) have heal-over-time potions, even outside of combat scenarios. So, you're just standing about, waiting for however-many seconds for your healing to work, when there's no strategic timing, or factors to deal with, or anything. Just "Wait such-and-such time to heal, or don't heal and be on your way right now."

 

That's the point. I don't know how to make it any clearer. You've even acknowledged the point already, multiple times. You just didn't acknowledge it AS the point, and instead suggested I had some other ludicrous point, or that a point didn't exist. All because you're apparently too proud to say "Oh, I didn't realize what your point was," because being an imperfect human is totally for other people.

 

There's no shame in missing a point. It doesn't even necessarily mean it was your own fault for missing it. But you know what IS your own fault? Ignoring someone else's observance that you've missed their point, and claiming it's impossible that such a thing could've happened.

 

It is not my intention to make you out to be some kind of idiot. I don't want to make you feel bad. I don't want you to have my opinions. I merely want my point to be clear. That is my interest. If it isn't clear, I'll do whatever I can to make it clear. But I can't make you care what my point is. I can only make it as clearly as possible.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Lephys

[Stun]

5 is an arbitrary number of minutes.

Which still represents something that isn't *instant*, which means your hypothetical is a straw man. If I can't count on a consumable or spell to work the instant I consume it or cast it, then YES, I'd rather have a regeneration system. But AGAIN, those are NOT the options facing rpg gamers gamers after a painful combat session. The options facing RPG gamers after a painful combat session are: 1) Consumables/spells to heal yourself up right away... or.... 2) a quick regen system to do the healing for you.

 

So... lets employ some honesty, now, and stick with debating the merits and pitfalls of *those* two.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Stun

[Lephys]

 

 

5 is an arbitrary number of minutes.

Which still represents something that isn't *instant*, which means your hypothetical is a straw man.

 

 

Which was the point of my hypothetical, which is based upon actual heal-over-time examples from existing games (Such as Fallout: NV and Diablo, which I've now pointed out a 2nd time, in spite of the fact that you blatantly ignore what I say, then attack bits and pieces of it for no apparent reason).

 

Pretend you're going to make a game, and it's going to have healing in it. Oh wait! I can't use that hypothetical, because you're NOT going to make a game! So, crap, that must be a straw man. Because we were talking about healing in games, not about hypothetically making a game that had a healing system in it. Pfff...

 

The options facing RPG gamers are whatever systems are capable of being coded in the production of a video game. If previously unseen systems were never developed in new games, we'd all be playing Pong 73. So, yes, there is merit in discussing what SHOULDN'T be coded into a game, even though it CAN be.

 

And, for what it's worth, I employ as much honesty as I can, and I'll not have the realm of what I can and cannot debate defined by your personal preferences on a public forum, thank you very much. I already "stuck with" debating the merits and pitfalls of those two, when I specifically pointed out that, in P:E's Stami-nealth system, Stamina has absolutely no reason to require consumables or time-sensitive actions of any sort to heal, outside of combat. Which you don't disagree with, if I'm not mistaken. Obviously, anything NOT infinite in nature (like P:E's Stamina) should not automatically fully regen. (Already said that, as well, while you were busy telling me I wasn't talking about anything even remotely applicable to the topic at hand.)

 

Let's employ some respect, now, and stick with actually reading what people type and responding to them like they aren't 3 years old just because we fail to understand their point at first.

[Ristora]

Wowzers. So, if I understand here, the debate originated over whether there should be healing stuffs that take time to work. I might get my head bitten off for trying to do this, but I'm going to try to defuse this situation while at the same time trying to inform myself of what is up for debate. It seems there are a few things to consider:

 

OPTIONS I (OPTIONS 2 replace 'Healing' with 'Stamina')

1. a) Healing inside of combat

    b) Healing outside of combat

 

2. a) Healing with an item/spell

    b) Healing by regeneration

    c) Healing by rest

 

3. a) Instant effect

    b) Delayed effect 

 

If I'm not mistaken, one should be able to choose one dichotomous option from 1, 2, and 3, to frame what kind of scenario they are talking about. For example, OP I--1a + 2a + 3a <---I think that should be possible. Or something like this: For persistent wounds it should be 1b + 2a + 3a whereas for superficial wounds 1a or b + 2a or b + 3a.

 

Does that make sense? Does it help at all? Of course, there is much more at stake in the debate now since there is the inevitable desire to save face, but maybe you guys will find this post so helpful that you will just be like "Let's let bygones be bygones and use this new wonderful way of talking about healing and stamina scenarios"  hehe

Edited April 7, 2013 by Ristora

[Lephys]

^ I appreciate your efforts, Ristora, but the argument ended weeks ago, 8P. And yes, it was a rather unnecessary argument.

 

Your thoughts on the matter (and your chart) does make very good sense, but you might've missed the original point that sparked a misunderstanding, followed by an argument.

 

So, for your potential curiosity, the original point was that, in a system such as P:E's dual health/stamina system, there is absolutely nothing gained from any amount of delay on the regeneration of stamina outside of combat. Basically, the only reason it only regenerates at a certain rate is because of the effects of that rate on combat. Outside of combat, there is nothing to be affected or detrimented by an increase in the rate of regen, even to the point of stamina instantly refilling.

 

Basically, this goes for any form of delayed healing in any RPG with distinct combat encounters. If the opportunity to gradually heal your party by any amount and to prevent any re-entry into combat (or entry into a new combat encounter) always exists outside of combat, then there is nothing lost and only time gained by bypassing the duration of the healing effect (without changing the amount or availability of healing in any way).

 

In other words, if a potion heals you for 50 health over the course of 10 seconds, then using that potion outside of combat might as well instantly heal you for 50 health. And, in P:E's case, if you have constant, passive stamina regen, then stamina might as well instantly jump back up to full outside of combat.

 

The only purpose to gradual/time-sensitive healing effects is created by the fact that things can affect your health alongside the healing effect. In any situation where this is no longer true, the gradual healing duration/delay ceases to have a purpose.

 

Methinks the tidbit that was missed was the whole "only under these circumstances" part. Plus, I think at one point, it was thought that I was suggesting that health might as well restore to FULL every time you're outside of combat, rather than only to whatever degree the healing effects already in-place (including those from items you use) would have normally restored it.

 

*Shrug*

[Ristora]

...the argument ended weeks ago, 8P...you might've missed the original point that sparked a misunderstanding, followed by an argument.

Oh...I guess I should have looked at the timestamps

 

Thanks for the explanation--I think I did miss the original point/post as I came in mid argument.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Ristora

[Lephys]

Oh...I guess I should have looked at the timestamps

 

Thanks for the explanation--I think I did miss the original point/post as I came in mid argument.

No worries. I wasn't trying to scold you or anything, heh. Just sharing information is all. 8P

 

*beep boop beep*... oh crap, my batteries are dying! Gotta go plug myself in and run some diagnostics.

[Sigwald]

Hi, I'm just passing by here.

The IG video just made me eager again to play this game (*looking mail box* "Well, another upgrade with just text... Oh no wait there's a video, did he say he shows us the game ? OH SWEET MOTHER OF GOD").

 

Well, I've already thrown a few dollars at Obsidian, and I don't want to make it too much of a habit, but I have a question, concerning this topic about known information :

 

DID I MISS THE CHOICE OF ADRESS FOR SHIPPING ?

 

Seriously, I have no idea if it's time for that, and I'm wondering if I have missed it. I don't read all the kickstarters, and a quick search in the forums doesn't give me an answer.

[Elerond]

Hi, I'm just passing by here.

 

The IG video just made me eager again to play this game (*looking mail box* "Well, another upgrade with just text... Oh no wait there's a video, did he say he shows us the game ? OH SWEET MOTHER OF GOD").

 

Well, I've already thrown a few dollars at Obsidian, and I don't want to make it too much of a habit, but I have a question, concerning this topic about known information :

 

DID I MISS THE CHOICE OF ADRESS FOR SHIPPING ?

 

Seriously, I have no idea if it's time for that, and I'm wondering if I have missed it. I don't read all the kickstarters, and a quick search in the forums doesn't give me an answer.

 

Yoy haven't missed anything, they haven't yet sent questionares for backers.

[Sigwald]

 

 

Yoy haven't missed anything, they haven't yet sent questionares for backers.

Few, thanks. Well, i'm going back to sleep again, I'd rather have as much surprise as I can when I begin to play the game.

 

(But a good feeling of awe like I had for the last update is always a good thing).

[da-beast93]

i noticed while signing up that it asked for psn accounts and xbox live accounts.  i know this is probably a stupid question but is this game coming out for consoles?  im getting it for pc for sure but is there any way this is coming for the console? otherwise why would they ask?

[Tamerlane]

PC only. I'm assuming you're asking about the PSN/XBL/Steam stuff in your account details? That's pretty basic stuff for a lot of gaming-related boards, really. And while PE isn't going to be on any consoles, Obsidian has made plenty of games that have been.

[jamoecw]

the developer comments made me decide to buy another copy, in fact from this point forward if any random person comes up to me and says, "i like baldur's gate."  i will buy them a copy of PE.

[Aeschylus]

Question regarding those who backed Project Eternity, I went for the wasteland 2/PE bundle where you get the 2 games for 45. When wasteland 2 is released do you get that copy or once PE is released do you get both as 1 ?(if you get what i'm saying, since they are both released at different times)

[Protection]

 

 

Is that concept art from Eternity or another Obsidian game?

 

Will the game be set in a world where they have discoverd gunpowder?

That is original concept art for Project Eternity.

 

Are there still plans to include guns and possibly other technology in the game or was it just an idea?

 

 

Gunpowder!  

 

Awesome.  Muskets are the best excuses to play a ranged class of character.

[funcroc]

Gathering Your Party with Project Eternity (GDC Next 10)

[anameforobsidian]

It's somewhat interesting that Eder looks human but fought in the Saint's War, which would make him 200+ years old unless something is horribly wrong with my math.

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/12/11/obsidian-on-dungeoniest-dungeon-ever-eternitys-length/

Edited December 11, 2013 by anameforobsidian

[Prometheus]

It's somewhat interesting that Eder looks human but fought in the Saint's War, which would make him 200+ years old unless something is horribly wrong with my math.

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/12/11/obsidian-on-dungeoniest-dungeon-ever-eternitys-length/

They changed the date of the saint's war.

source

BTW, the timeline of the Saint's War is much closer to "present day" in the game than it was previously. It happened about 10-15 years ago.

[anameforobsidian]

 

It's somewhat interesting that Eder looks human but fought in the Saint's War, which would make him 200+ years old unless something is horribly wrong with my math.

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/12/11/obsidian-on-dungeoniest-dungeon-ever-eternitys-length/

They changed the date of the saint's war.

source

BTW, the timeline of the Saint's War is much closer to "present day" in the game than it was previously. It happened about 10-15 years ago.

 

 

Thanks.  I don't have an SA account so I can't read his stuff there, and I think they haven't updated the wiki.

[Mor]

Do we have a name for the world, continent or whatever that we can refer to as other than that place where Project/pillars of Eternity take place?

 

We have been told its colonial time, so how the newcomers call their new world?

[Tamerlane]

I don't think we know the name of the continent and the world, but from what I understand, we can expect the vast majority of the game to take place in Dyrwood and Eir Glanfath.

[neo6874]

the developer comments made me decide to buy another copy, in fact from this point forward if any random person comes up to me and says, "i like baldur's gate."  i will buy them a copy of PE.

I like Baldur's Gate. 

[Mor]

I don't think we know the name of the continent and the world, but from what I understand, we can expect the vast majority of the game to take place in Dyrwood and Eir Glanfath.

yeah, but Dyrwood is like former English colonies and Eir Glanfath is like the inland indian land. I'd really like to know the name of the region as whole i.e. Dyrwood,Eir Glanfath, Vailians(Spanish? colonies) bellow and everything else seen in that stretch of land seen on the "world" map. Edited December 14, 2013 by Mor