Tropes that could be avoided

[Margaretha]

Here is the thing Margaretha [blah blah feminism is evil] [...]

 

Also tropes are a part of video games and their culture as well are these tropes are part of our whole society. What would a fantasy adventure without romance or a damsel in distress? Without someone you love and you have to rescue. And yes this could be a man or a woman. What would an RPG without these "animals" that are attacking you and totally not react like they would in real life? It would be pretty boring.

 

What I am trying to say with my bad English is that Tropes done right are not a bad thing. Let Obsidian just do their Job they know how to write characters and stories that are not sexist in any way.

This is pop culture and we both like it. You like it as it is, I am a bit bored and often annoyed today. RPG has not to be about saving a damsel in distress or being attacked by wolvess. It can be, and it can be done well, but it can be something else, because it is not what makes an RPG an RPG. I have been saving damsel in distress for 20 years. THAT is boring. I would be willing to try something new.

[Badmojo]

Seriously can we please keep this whole tropes thing out of this game. I really can not stand it anymore. (...) Why not trust them a little bit instead of trying to tell them what "tropes" (what terrible fad at the moment) they should avoid.

 

Hello Darji. This is the internet and I find myself disagreeing with you. I know, it may be a surprise. First of all, I am not telling the developers what they should do. I (and others here) am just saying what I would like to see, what I, humbly and personally, care about because I enjoy CRPGs and I am looking closely at this project. So, I am sure we have much in common. Maybe you knew it but could not express it properly (it is fine, I am not clear myself when writing in this language).

 

Unfortunately, this is internet. Sexism is a hot topic and causes many threads to be closed. Many players do not see an issue in sexism. You do not and you are even fed up with the topic, like Badmojo. I am sorry you feel this way but please, let's just be... cautious and respectful. If you wanted to win something, I give you all. You won, I will not be able to fight a troll war in english.

 

NOW, about tropes/stereotypes/<any word people prefer> and Project Eternity: Obsidian probably already chose much of what is going to be put into the game, they gave us this forum nonetheless. I chew the bone happily. One thing I would like to say is that Obsidian is in a position to renew CRPGs. To invent something. I think that giving a kick in some "tropes" (the ones I do not like, of course), could be what could make this game a great game, a new reference. Choosing to step deliberately aside from the gaze of the horny teenage (and male, and white, and straight) computer-roleplaying geek we all have been to some extend.

 

(btw, Brienne > Red Sonja)

 

Here is the thing Margaretha. These topics especially about Woman in video games went in the last couple of weeks to level of pure stupidity. I am pretty sure you know the tropes in vdeogames kickstarter right? We are already that far that these so called feminists calling a game like Ico sexist only because you don't play a girl or have to protect a helpless girl. We are at a level were we call great indy games sexist. These people scream for equality in games but on the other hand cry out loud when woman get hurt in videogames and calling it rape culture (Hitman: Absolution or the new Tomb Raider is a good example for these "arguments". Its gone to a level that is not helathy for everyone anymore. And I am sorry when I am think of it. I don't have anything against strong Women in games actually I love them My bests friends are women and I have absolutely no problem here but its getting really tiresome. Something I don't want to have to worry here at all.

 

I have played many games from these people and they never try to portrait woman in a sexist way. And if you believe it or not there are many woman in the real world which tlove attention or witch love to look sexy. And these characters should be exist in these kind of games as well. Not all women are strong and have a lot of self esteem or as of course not all men.

 

Also tropes are a part of video games and their culture as well are these tropes are part of our whole society. What would a fantasy adventure without romance or a damsel in distress? Without someone you love and you have to rescue. And yes this could be a man or a woman. What would an RPG without these "animals" that are attacking you and totally not react like they would in real life? It would be pretty boring.

 

What I am trying to say with my bad English is that Tropes done right are not a bad thing. Let Obsidian just do their Job they know how to write characters and stories that are not sexist in any way.

 

Weeks? Try months. I have seen this show up again and again on many forums. It always start innocent enough.."I think women...", then in a short while you ALWAYS have anybody who doesn't agree with this view accused of sexism,mysogonist, supporter of rape culter..etc. driving people away who does not agree, then the ones who stay end up arguing with each other over minor details, then the game forums ends up drying up because this one topic overrides everything and then people leave the forums alltogether and it just becomes a cesspool of angry people. I hope it does not turn into that, I really want to talk about great ideas and excitement for the game, but I have seen this happen many of times already. My advice, *IF* this topic looks like its headed that way, create a seperate forum page for politics and move it there before it turns into a yelling match.

[Darji]

Here is the thing Margaretha [blah blah feminism is evil] [...]

 

Also tropes are a part of video games and their culture as well are these tropes are part of our whole society. What would a fantasy adventure without romance or a damsel in distress? Without someone you love and you have to rescue. And yes this could be a man or a woman. What would an RPG without these "animals" that are attacking you and totally not react like they would in real life? It would be pretty boring.

 

What I am trying to say with my bad English is that Tropes done right are not a bad thing. Let Obsidian just do their Job they know how to write characters and stories that are not sexist in any way.

This is pop culture and we both like it. You like it as it is, I am a bit bored and often annoyed today. RPG has not to be about saving a damsel in distress or being attacked by wolvess. It can be, and it can be done well, but it can be something else, because it is not what makes an RPG an RPG. I have been saving damsel in distress for 20 years. THAT is boring. I would be willing to try something new.

 

What else do you want? A World where everyone can defend himself? A world where no one needs to be rescued so no one can be offended in any way? A world which has no beautiful women and men? A world without prostiitution (both ways) A world without sexual attractions? Without lets say nymphs, succubi or character that are making use of their sexappeal jsut like in real life etc ? I am really interested how you want to make a fantasy game without troupes or people that do not need to be rescued or killed etc.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Darji

[Monte Carlo]

How can 'tropes' be bad. It's like saying themes are bad. Genres are bad. Concepts are bad.

 

FFS buy a thesaurus already.

[Badmojo]

Here is the thing Margaretha [blah blah feminism is evil] [...]

 

Also tropes are a part of video games and their culture as well are these tropes are part of our whole society. What would a fantasy adventure without romance or a damsel in distress? Without someone you love and you have to rescue. And yes this could be a man or a woman. What would an RPG without these "animals" that are attacking you and totally not react like they would in real life? It would be pretty boring.

 

What I am trying to say with my bad English is that Tropes done right are not a bad thing. Let Obsidian just do their Job they know how to write characters and stories that are not sexist in any way.

This is pop culture and we both like it. You like it as it is, I am a bit bored and often annoyed today. RPG has not to be about saving a damsel in distress or being attacked by wolvess. It can be, and it can be done well, but it can be something else, because it is not what makes an RPG an RPG. I have been saving damsel in distress for 20 years. THAT is boring. I would be willing to try something new.

 

I can't remember the last time I saved a damsel(it could be a prince if you play a girl, or gay *shrug*) in destress since mario. I actually would love to save a damsel in destress, perhaps even win her hand in marriage with a large financial boost from the father...has ANY game offered that outside japan?

[Badmojo]

How can 'tropes' be bad. It's like saying themes are bad. Genres are bad. Concepts are bad.

 

FFS buy a thesaurus already.

 

Its overused tropes what is being complained about, but saying all tropes..yea...

[mkreku]

The funny thing is.. it's not exactly like the majority of the games I play has unattractive male leads either. Never saw anyone complaining about the objectification of men. Raise your hand if you can identify with Commander Shephard, guys!

 

...

 

And before someone claims it's not the same thing or that men are not objectified in the same way, take a look at one of our very few female member's love relationship with an NPC in Fallout: New Vegas named Boone. It was like watching a creepy cybersex session over several weeks, on these very boards.

 

The only thing that differs is the way the objectification occurs. Men are generally more visually inclined, thus chainamil bikinis, while women generally prefer.. other things.

[Darji]

The funny thing is.. it's not exactly like the majority of the games I play has unattractive male leads either. Never saw anyone complaining about the objectification of men. Raise your hand if you can identify with Commander Shephard, guys!

 

...

 

And before someone claims it's not the same thing or that men are not objectified in the same way, take a look at one of our very few female member's love relationship with an NPC in Fallout: New Vegas named Boone. It was like watching a creepy cybersex session over several weeks, on these very boards.

 

The only thing that differs is the way the objectification occurs. Men are generally more visually inclined, thus chainamil bikinis, while women generally prefer.. other things.

 

Yeah exactly. Woman prefer or see different things as sexy. Like eyes, some character traits like mysterious or "emo" and so on. Its much easier to please actually men since they often go for the visual aspects than to please women. But that's how humans are. Yes of course things like character is important but the first thing you actually or better normally see is the appearance of a person. If you don't get attracted than the chance is high that you wont even talk to this person at all.

[Tamerlane]

The funny thing is.. it's not exactly like the majority of the games I play has unattractive male leads either. Never saw anyone complaining about the objectification of men. Raise your hand if you can identify with Commander Shephard, guys!

Objection: There are different forms of objectification.

 

Clarification: Shepard has an idealize male body - from the male perspective. An idealized male body from a female perspective probably doesn't look like that. His appearance is more about what you wish to be than what you wish to see.

 

Unnecessary Ass-Covering: I'm generalizing, of course. Different boats for different floats.

 

Belittling Statement: Seriously though, who uses the default face? C'mon.

[Delterius]

Clarification: Shepard has an idealize male body - from the male perspective. An idealized male body from a female perspective probably doesn't look like that. His appearance is more about what you wish to be than what you wish to see.

 

Both assertions are painful generalizations, but I don't think I need to point that out.

[Longknife]

(personal and humble opinion, poor english, sorry, etc.)

 

Obsidian people and us all here are old roleplayers, jaded to some extend; white hair here, and there, not the horny teenagers focused on cheap tricks, dat sorceress illustration, powermaxing skills anymore. Not to that extend, at least... we have our weaknesses, sure. We'll hide them. This is what I want to believe.

 

Now. Tropes are in the mood. Some could be avoided as said:

 

- Romances (no, please, really... Obsidian, not this time)

 

People? on the list!

 

I think a form of romance is doable and would be welcomed by some fans (not a big fan of it myself) but personally I think serious relationships in a video game are an absolute joke. Just because a character calls you "husband" doesn't mean you love her; it feels like empty words and it's an empty relationship....because she's an AI program. I don't care if it's a roleplaying game, roleplaying love just isn't doable imo.

 

Having said that though, I did enjoy the little bit of flirting that the Courier and Cass did, and I know a lot of people liked Doctor Dala from OWB. I think flirting is fine, as flirting can be playful, flattering and funny without being too serious, but it really shouldn't extend beyond that. A "friends with benefits" sort of relationship could be humorous, fun and appease those that DO want romance without being awkward for those that don't. Seems like a fair in-between point.

[Tamerlane]

Clarification: Shepard has an idealize male body - from the male perspective. An idealized male body from a female perspective probably doesn't look like that. His appearance is more about what you wish to be than what you wish to see.

 

Both assertions are painful generalizations, but I don't think I need to point that out.

Well, no, since I said that one line down.

[Darji]

(personal and humble opinion, poor english, sorry, etc.)

 

Obsidian people and us all here are old roleplayers, jaded to some extend; white hair here, and there, not the horny teenagers focused on cheap tricks, dat sorceress illustration, powermaxing skills anymore. Not to that extend, at least... we have our weaknesses, sure. We'll hide them. This is what I want to believe.

 

Now. Tropes are in the mood. Some could be avoided as said:

 

- Romances (no, please, really... Obsidian, not this time)

 

People? on the list!

 

I think a form of romance is doable and would be welcomed by some fans (not a big fan of it myself) but personally I think serious relationships in a video game are an absolute joke. Just because a character calls you "husband" doesn't mean you love her; it feels like empty words and it's an empty relationship....because she's an AI program. I don't care if it's a roleplaying game, roleplaying love just isn't doable imo.

 

Having said that though, I did enjoy the little bit of flirting that the Courier and Cass did, and I know a lot of people liked Doctor Dala from OWB. I think flirting is fine, as flirting can be playful, flattering and funny without being too serious, but it really shouldn't extend beyond that. A "friends with benefits" sort of relationship could be humorous, fun and appease those that DO want romance without being awkward for those that don't. Seems like a fair in-between point.

 

Thats all that should be. Maybe some flirting maybe some hot affection at night and maybe imply that they married in the end if they are still alive. Do ont go with the getting married, having kids etc during the story. Timeskips are the worst things for RPGs because they always fail to deliver^^

[Longknife]

(personal and humble opinion, poor english, sorry, etc.)

 

Obsidian people and us all here are old roleplayers, jaded to some extend; white hair here, and there, not the horny teenagers focused on cheap tricks, dat sorceress illustration, powermaxing skills anymore. Not to that extend, at least... we have our weaknesses, sure. We'll hide them. This is what I want to believe.

 

Now. Tropes are in the mood. Some could be avoided as said:

 

- Romances (no, please, really... Obsidian, not this time)

 

People? on the list!

 

I think a form of romance is doable and would be welcomed by some fans (not a big fan of it myself) but personally I think serious relationships in a video game are an absolute joke. Just because a character calls you "husband" doesn't mean you love her; it feels like empty words and it's an empty relationship....because she's an AI program. I don't care if it's a roleplaying game, roleplaying love just isn't doable imo.

 

Having said that though, I did enjoy the little bit of flirting that the Courier and Cass did, and I know a lot of people liked Doctor Dala from OWB. I think flirting is fine, as flirting can be playful, flattering and funny without being too serious, but it really shouldn't extend beyond that. A "friends with benefits" sort of relationship could be humorous, fun and appease those that DO want romance without being awkward for those that don't. Seems like a fair in-between point.

 

Thats all that should be. Maybe some flirting maybe some hot affection at night and maybe imply that they married in the end if they are still alive. Do ont go with the getting married, having kids etc during the story. Timeskips are the worst things for RPGs because they always fail to deliver^^

 

Exactly.

 

We should be aiming for characters that are deep and detailed enough that we experience everything they do, but you CANNOT simulate love. You can simulate flirting and it still offers entertainment in the same way a "THAT'S WUT SHE SAID OOOOOOOOH" remark offers entertainment, but beyond that, it just starts to feel incredibly forced and fake and alienates the player from the experience.

[Sarog]

Hoping that elves won't be cliche. I'm thoroughly bored of the elves/magic/nature combo meal. Especially if the elves are angsty about the changing world / the decline of their civilization / humanity's environmental footprint. It is old, tired, and unimaginative. Since elves seem to be a given, elven mages will undoubtedly be prolific and they will probably personify some kind of message regarding the whole connection between magic and souls. I just hope that they aren't another cliche closer-to-nature ideal-standard-for-humanity elder race suffering the bumbling disasters caused by their lessers. I think fantasy in general has spent more than enough time on themes of "ugly=evil", "virtue=elegance" and "bad guys litter", so a more mature and less derivative incarnation of elves would be very welcome.

 

Same goes for dwarves, if there are any. And if there are elves, there are usually dwarves. I would hope that they break free of the "hard drinking angry craftsman" mold. Fantasy's eternal presentation of dwarves as being honest, loyal, practical, stalwart, stubborn, or any other trait that seems "earth-like" isn't that interesting anymore.

 

The elf-dwarf frenemy cliche of always growling at each other but being the first to come to the other's defense is also old.

 

Tbh I'm not sure why anyone would want to cling to the old tolkien races if they had the chance to make a fresh IP, since I reckon they've been milked for all they are worth, and each new incarnation of them is going to have to deal with the issue of how to make them different enough to be interesting compared to other franchises while keeping them close enough to standard that they still have their traditional appeal. But they are a deeply established expectation in fantasy so I'm not surprised to see elven concept art. Avoiding genre cliches would be good though.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Sarog

[The Sharmat]

I think we can trust Obsidian to avoid genre cliches entirely.

 

On the sexism "debate": I think we should focus on arguing against points actually brought up by posters in this thread, rather than arguments we've seen and been annoyed by on other parts of the internet. There's a wide spectrum of opinions on this. Hating the opposing side and assuming that the most extreme faction of that side is representative of the whole makes any discussion impossible, since we're all arguing past each other at strawmen.

[Badmojo]

(personal and humble opinion, poor english, sorry, etc.)

 

Obsidian people and us all here are old roleplayers, jaded to some extend; white hair here, and there, not the horny teenagers focused on cheap tricks, dat sorceress illustration, powermaxing skills anymore. Not to that extend, at least... we have our weaknesses, sure. We'll hide them. This is what I want to believe.

 

Now. Tropes are in the mood. Some could be avoided as said:

 

- Romances (no, please, really... Obsidian, not this time)

 

People? on the list!

 

I think a form of romance is doable and would be welcomed by some fans (not a big fan of it myself) but personally I think serious relationships in a video game are an absolute joke. Just because a character calls you "husband" doesn't mean you love her; it feels like empty words and it's an empty relationship....because she's an AI program. I don't care if it's a roleplaying game, roleplaying love just isn't doable imo.

 

Having said that though, I did enjoy the little bit of flirting that the Courier and Cass did, and I know a lot of people liked Doctor Dala from OWB. I think flirting is fine, as flirting can be playful, flattering and funny without being too serious, but it really shouldn't extend beyond that. A "friends with benefits" sort of relationship could be humorous, fun and appease those that DO want romance without being awkward for those that don't. Seems like a fair in-between point.

 

Thats all that should be. Maybe some flirting maybe some hot affection at night and maybe imply that they married in the end if they are still alive. Do ont go with the getting married, having kids etc during the story. Timeskips are the worst things for RPGs because they always fail to deliver^^

 

Exactly.

 

We should be aiming for characters that are deep and detailed enough that we experience everything they do, but you CANNOT simulate love. You can simulate flirting and it still offers entertainment in the same way a "THAT'S WUT SHE SAID OOOOOOOOH" remark offers entertainment, but beyond that, it just starts to feel incredibly forced and fake and alienates the player from the experience.

 

See, I can't understand this. If its OPTIONAL, you can just ignore it, but some of us DO like it. DOA was actually pretty good with bonding relationships (not just romances) and actually felt something for the characters. As for not feeling "love", there is a whole visual novel culture in japan who wants a word with all of you, also tali in mass effect 2 is one of the most memorable characters. Again, include it, but do it well and not slapped on or forced.

[Darji]

(personal and humble opinion, poor english, sorry, etc.)

 

Obsidian people and us all here are old roleplayers, jaded to some extend; white hair here, and there, not the horny teenagers focused on cheap tricks, dat sorceress illustration, powermaxing skills anymore. Not to that extend, at least... we have our weaknesses, sure. We'll hide them. This is what I want to believe.

 

Now. Tropes are in the mood. Some could be avoided as said:

 

- Romances (no, please, really... Obsidian, not this time)

 

People? on the list!

 

I think a form of romance is doable and would be welcomed by some fans (not a big fan of it myself) but personally I think serious relationships in a video game are an absolute joke. Just because a character calls you "husband" doesn't mean you love her; it feels like empty words and it's an empty relationship....because she's an AI program. I don't care if it's a roleplaying game, roleplaying love just isn't doable imo.

 

Having said that though, I did enjoy the little bit of flirting that the Courier and Cass did, and I know a lot of people liked Doctor Dala from OWB. I think flirting is fine, as flirting can be playful, flattering and funny without being too serious, but it really shouldn't extend beyond that. A "friends with benefits" sort of relationship could be humorous, fun and appease those that DO want romance without being awkward for those that don't. Seems like a fair in-between point.

 

Thats all that should be. Maybe some flirting maybe some hot affection at night and maybe imply that they married in the end if they are still alive. Do ont go with the getting married, having kids etc during the story. Timeskips are the worst things for RPGs because they always fail to deliver^^

 

Exactly.

 

We should be aiming for characters that are deep and detailed enough that we experience everything they do, but you CANNOT simulate love. You can simulate flirting and it still offers entertainment in the same way a "THAT'S WUT SHE SAID OOOOOOOOH" remark offers entertainment, but beyond that, it just starts to feel incredibly forced and fake and alienates the player from the experience.

 

See, I can't understand this. If its OPTIONAL, you can just ignore it, but some of us DO like it. DOA was actually pretty good with bonding relationships (not just romances) and actually felt something for the characters. As for not feeling "love", there is a whole visual novel culture in japan who wants a word with all of you, also tali in mass effect 2 is one of the most memorable characters. Again, include it, but do it well and not slapped on or forced.

 

What you had in origins and also Mass effect was not romance it was sex. and flirting. There was no real love involved. If you want to see how its done right play The Witcher and look at the relationship between Triss and Gerald.

[Tamerlane]

(personal and humble opinion, poor english, sorry, etc.)

 

Obsidian people and us all here are old roleplayers, jaded to some extend; white hair here, and there, not the horny teenagers focused on cheap tricks, dat sorceress illustration, powermaxing skills anymore. Not to that extend, at least... we have our weaknesses, sure. We'll hide them. This is what I want to believe.

 

Now. Tropes are in the mood. Some could be avoided as said:

 

- Romances (no, please, really... Obsidian, not this time)

 

People? on the list!

 

I think a form of romance is doable and would be welcomed by some fans (not a big fan of it myself) but personally I think serious relationships in a video game are an absolute joke. Just because a character calls you "husband" doesn't mean you love her; it feels like empty words and it's an empty relationship....because she's an AI program. I don't care if it's a roleplaying game, roleplaying love just isn't doable imo.

This has me genuinely curious.

 

What do you think about depictions of love in film? In books?

[The Sharmat]

What you had in origins and also Mass effect was not romance it was sex. and flirting.

This may be generally true, but there were a few exceptions. Parts of Mass Effect got it right. Inevitable, as it's written by a team of writers rather than one person. Flaws won't be consistent throughout. The Garrus one was actually well handled and touching, I thought.

[HangedMan]

There should be sexuality as well as gender balance- the game should have as many options open as possible, and not fall into heterosexual male teenage fantasies.

Though I'm not against bikini armour options for women, as long there are bikini armours for men.

Sexuality should include heterosexual, homosexual and asexual options within relationships. I agree that the end point should not be a simple cut scene (yay I scored!) but should ultimately develop into the player caring about their partner, (maybe even to the point where you get bonuses to attack if their health is low? just an idea).

 

I also agree with Noneks list- for gods sake no ridiculously giant weapons or armour, it's not the size that matters!

I like romance if it can be done in a subtle realistic way. For example, if you meet a character and are just constantly hitting on them from when you first meet, that probably won't lead to a healthy relationship.

 

I'm also interested in a game where I don't get punished for being mean to my party members, sometimes I argue with my friends but that doesn't mean I lose respect for them, what I mean is let me tease and argue with my companions without punishing me. In other words don't have a influence mechanic, or if you have one keep it hidden in the background, an influence mechanic actually cheapens conversations where instead of having a natural conversation you are just trying to get influence points (Obviously I'm talking about Dragon Age which did this poorly in my opinion)

 

I am also opposed to a morality systems for similar reason, it limits my choices if I'm thinking, "I need renegade points so i have to be rude even though I would rather not". I don't want to end up grinding morality like xp.

I agree with almost all of what these two posts mention, which is why I'm quoting them; it's basically my own thoughts, but in a manner more eloquent than I can muster up.

 

However, I would like to see a morality, or perhaps a personality system. I honestly don't think their are too many people who will play the game going "I only need five more points to be a certified Nice Guy! Wow-wee!" or something similar; and really, if somebody does want to play that way, and has fun doing that, then why stop 'em?

 

I think it would be interesting to have this system also influence some skills. For instance, do you typically solve problems by violently butchering the people that cause them? Congratulations, all that killing and complete disregard for human life makes you a lot better at intimidating. Meanwhile, nobody really wants to actually sit and have a peaceful discussion with somebody that carries around the heads of their enemies as a grisly trophy, so you could suffer a penalty to Diplomacy.

[mkreku]

I can find parts of dialogue or character behaviour charming. But as soon as I get the slightest notion that the writers are trying to steer me into a "romance" in a game, I immediately dislike it and actively avoid it.

 

It would have to take a very special writer to make it organic enough for me to enjoy a game romance.

[The Sharmat]

Accidental romances are a huge problem in some games. Thanks for that, Bioware. No, it's ok. I didn't want to know anything about Jack's backstory anyway.

[puiwaihin]

There's a reason that elves and dwarves are used so often in games. People have a connection to them. Generally, any new race will fall into one of several common archetypes anyway. Just look at Star Trek. You have Kingons, who are nothing but Barbarian clans, Vulcans who are elves but with a thing for logic rather than nature, and Ferengi who are the hobbits (short and comical) but given greed as their main motivator.

 

So, if they don't have "elves" they will almost certainly have a pointy-eared group of erudites or mystics whose comprehension of nature or science are beyond human. And if they don't have "orcs" they'll have some other race of brutish, territorial creatures intent on killing people off who may or may not have a deep sense of honor and culture of their own that the innately racist humans have simply not yet understood.

 

As for scantily clad women and bare chested men....Keep in mind that sexualized characters appeal to the widest audience. It's simplay a smart move.

[Longknife]

(personal and humble opinion, poor english, sorry, etc.)

 

Obsidian people and us all here are old roleplayers, jaded to some extend; white hair here, and there, not the horny teenagers focused on cheap tricks, dat sorceress illustration, powermaxing skills anymore. Not to that extend, at least... we have our weaknesses, sure. We'll hide them. This is what I want to believe.

 

Now. Tropes are in the mood. Some could be avoided as said:

 

- Romances (no, please, really... Obsidian, not this time)

 

People? on the list!

 

I think a form of romance is doable and would be welcomed by some fans (not a big fan of it myself) but personally I think serious relationships in a video game are an absolute joke. Just because a character calls you "husband" doesn't mean you love her; it feels like empty words and it's an empty relationship....because she's an AI program. I don't care if it's a roleplaying game, roleplaying love just isn't doable imo.

This has me genuinely curious.

 

What do you think about depictions of love in film? In books?

 

Again, for me it's different if I'm watching it and if I'm somehow participating in it.

Watching it, the movie or show or book or whatever gives you the tone and the premise of "these two are meant for each other, will they pull it off together?!" which is more a matter of seeing how their relationship plays out. This also ties into a suggestion I made in another thread where I said perhaps having two companions that seem compatible and could hook up with the proper player influence would be a nice alternative.

 

But participating in it? With video games? Just doesn't feel authentic to me. It typically comes down to being given a choice of dialog options and one of them is correct and the others are wrong. I REALLY don't think you can sum up romance like that and I think it's silly to try. Personally, in such situations I always find myself saying "well this dialog choice lets me offer her flowers. Bitches love flowers so I guess I should pick this one." It just comes off as stereotypical and dull OR it's more like a pop quiz about the character. And maybe it's just me, but I cringe out of sheer awkwardness when I get a dialog option to say "I love you too" or something to a video game character. I think it's because I know that somewhere out there, there's someone who sincerely cares for this AI in a loving way, and that just makes me feel sad. :C