y'all are bugnuts

[Drowsy Emperor]

What I'm saying is that a government cannot allow open calls to separatism and the sort of political activism that undermines the fabric of society. The latter part is vague, but that's the nature of things since its a thin line between "freedom of speech" and thinly veiled (or open) insults made to the beliefs of the majority.

The "social fabric" that has to fear mere words raised in opposition is no social fabric at all. It is a strawman for the justification of the suppression of dissent by the powers-that-be.

 

What you've written is essentially the mission statement for every despotic/fascist/oligarchic/theocratic censorship regime in history.

 

Its ridiculous to claim that there is no censorship or taboos in "democracies" or any other form of government.

Just try seriously opposing the idea of multiculturalism for example, from a position of some authority and watch the way the media systematically destroy your reputation and effectively ostracize you from society. In some ways its even worse than being thrown in jail.

There are plenty of topics that are off limits in any of the so called democracies.

[Malcador]

 

I doubt they want a carrier group off the coast.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

I doubt they want a carrier group off the coast.

 

If that's all the liberal muslims they could round up for this photo op it could almost count as counter-propaganda.

[Hurlshort]

So if your agenda doesn't involve being a thug or a killer, you are a liberal?

[Malcador]

You'd be a moderate Muslim, I think that's the term they use for them.

[Drowsy Emperor]

You'd be a moderate Muslim, I think that's the term they use for them.

 

Right, that's what I meant to say.

[Nepenthe]

So if your agenda doesn't involve being a thug or a killer, you are a liberal?

Actually, I think you might have been accidentally right on the money.

[Humodour]

...

Edited September 14, 2012 by Krezack

[Humodour]

Its ridiculous to consider yourself superior just because the nation states of the rest of the world have strong ties with a particular ethnicity, religion, culture and history that binds them to act in certain ways and have people that believe so much in those things that they are ready to kill for them.

 

I definitely consider myself superior to the people you just described.

 

Anyone willing to kill because they believe so much in their ethnicity, religion, culture, or history belongs in a mental asylum. It's so sad that there are entire countries full of such people (and I blame nurture here, not nature), but it doesn't change the fact that many of the citizens in places like Serbia and Libya, for example, need long-term mass counselling by trained professionals. Impossible of course, which leaves time and the innocence of younger Serbs and the Serbs not born yet as the only healers.

 

Don't get me wrong I thing the USA is walking a fine line itself (more so than any other developed country) - but the USA is still so superior to any country whose government or society encourages violence to "protect societal fabric" (this phrase is one of the most insidious and evil I've ever heard) that it's not even a contest.

 

Now enough of this - I'd like it if you took your Serbian nationalist Muslim hating to another forum - maybe the KKK or something would suit you.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its ridiculous to consider yourself superior just because the nation states of the rest of the world have strong ties with a particular ethnicity, religion, culture and history that binds them to act in certain ways and have people that believe so much in those things that they are ready to kill for them.

 

I definitely consider myself superior to the people you just described.

 

Anyone willing to kill because they believe so much in their ethnicity, religion, culture, or history belongs in a mental asylum. It's so sad that there are entire countries full of such people (and I blame nurture here, not nature), but it doesn't change the fact that many of the citizens in places like Serbia and Libya, for example, need long-term mass counselling by trained professionals. Impossible of course, which leaves time and the innocence of younger Serbs and the Serbs not born yet as the only healers.

 

Don't get me wrong I thing the USA is walking a fine line itself (more so than any other developed country) - but the USA is still so superior to any country whose government or society encourages violence to "protect societal fabric" (this phrase is one of the most insidious and evil I've ever heard) that it's not even a contest.

 

Now enough of this - I'd like it if you took your Serbian nationalist Muslim hating to another forum - maybe the KKK or something would suit you.

 

Ever think about easing off the pills and booze? Or just learning to read?

I was pointing out the entire issue from their perspective just a few posts above, even supplied a justification of sorts, but then you're too self righteous to notice that.

 

There are all sorts of people in this forum, but man, you really have issues you need help with.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[obyknven]

Serbi

Now enough of this - I'd like it if you took your Serbian nationalist Muslim hating to another forum - maybe the KKK or something would suit you.

Now enough of this - I'd like it if you took your Aussie nationalist Slavs hating to another forum - maybe the KKK or something would suit you.

[Humodour]

Its ridiculous to consider yourself superior just because the nation states of the rest of the world have strong ties with a particular ethnicity, religion, culture and history that binds them to act in certain ways and have people that believe so much in those things that they are ready to kill for them.

 

I definitely consider myself superior to the people you just described.

 

Anyone willing to kill because they believe so much in their ethnicity, religion, culture, or history belongs in a mental asylum. It's so sad that there are entire countries full of such people (and I blame nurture here, not nature), but it doesn't change the fact that many of the citizens in places like Serbia and Libya, for example, need long-term mass counselling by trained professionals. Impossible of course, which leaves time and the innocence of younger Serbs and the Serbs not born yet as the only healers.

 

Don't get me wrong I thing the USA is walking a fine line itself (more so than any other developed country) - but the USA is still so superior to any country whose government or society encourages violence to "protect societal fabric" (this phrase is one of the most insidious and evil I've ever heard) that it's not even a contest.

 

Now enough of this - I'd like it if you took your Serbian nationalist Muslim hating to another forum - maybe the KKK or something would suit you.

 

Ever think about easing off the pills and booze? Or just learning to read?

I was pointing out the entire issue from their perspective just a few posts above, even supplied a justification of sorts, but then you're too self righteous to notice that.

 

There are all sorts of people in this forum, but man, you really have issues you need help with.

 

That's a nice way to spin it, and if people on Obsid feel that your treatment of Muslims and Kosovars in your posts has been fair, and unbigoted then I guess I don't really fit in here. I suspect I'm not too out of place, though.

[Enoch]

What I'm saying is that a government cannot allow open calls to separatism and the sort of political activism that undermines the fabric of society. The latter part is vague, but that's the nature of things since its a thin line between "freedom of speech" and thinly veiled (or open) insults made to the beliefs of the majority.

The "social fabric" that has to fear mere words raised in opposition is no social fabric at all. It is a strawman for the justification of the suppression of dissent by the powers-that-be.

 

What you've written is essentially the mission statement for every despotic/fascist/oligarchic/theocratic censorship regime in history.

 

Its ridiculous to claim that there is no censorship or taboos in "democracies" or any other form of government.

Just try seriously opposing the idea of multiculturalism for example, from a position of some authority and watch the way the media systematically destroy your reputation and effectively ostracize you from society. In some ways its even worse than being thrown in jail.

There are plenty of topics that are off limits in any of the so called democracies.

Ah, but you're changing the subject. We were talking about governmental action here, not just the public-at-large holding someone responsible for their statements.

 

You may have missed it, but there is a slight difference between being allowed to say what you want (but risk being ostracized by your fellow citizens when what you say is abhorrent to the collective cultural values and sensibilities of the nation), and having the government thought police kick down your door and haul you off to the Gulag when your speech crosses some ill-defined line. The former is what happens in societies with a healthy "social fabric." The latter is what happens in societies where cultural identity is being subverted to support the interests of authoritarian rulers.

[Hurlshort]

Boo (DrowsyEmp) clearly has a very different perspective on these issues, and while I disagree vehemently with many of his statements, I appreciate that he has been open to discussion and has not gone overboard with insults or disrespect.

 

Krezack, I may be more closely aligned with you politically, but I find the tone you take to be arrogant. You use a lot of rhetoric. Calm down a bit and have a discussion.

[Humodour]

Boo (DrowsyEmp) clearly has a very different perspective on these issues, and while I disagree vehemently with many of his statements, I appreciate that he has been open to discussion and has not gone overboard with insults or disrespect.

 

Krezack, I may be more closely aligned with you politically, but I find the tone you take to be arrogant. You use a lot of rhetoric. Calm down a bit and have a discussion.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't suffer racism well. And I shouldn't have to.

[Malcador]

Not really seeing any of it in this thread, though. Disappointing to see this problem getting more widespread. Did have to laugh at the Sudanese attacking the German and British embassies for some reason. I guess they just need an excuse to fight the 'West' at this point.

 

 

edit : Sarcastic 'nice' probably didn't come across well

Edited September 14, 2012 by Malcador

[Rosbjerg]

Well, we did kinda mistreat them for the better part of 150 years - That obviously causes some residual rage that filters through generations.. And we still continue to simply invade and/or exert influence on their region at will - financially, politically and militarily.

[Junai]

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

 

sure, the linked article references egypt, but virtual all o' the rest o' the world distinguishes between freedom o' speech and freedom to offend. is nuts.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Good thing you're willing to break your financial back to finance the US world-education & police- campaign then. $1.3B to get afghan girls back to school, and to get rid of the brave freedom fighters you trained and financed in the eighties. America is generous. Time to look in the mirror now, and moe the lawn in your own backyard.

 

J.

[Gromnir]

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

 

sure, the linked article references egypt, but virtual all o' the rest o' the world distinguishes between freedom o' speech and freedom to offend. is nuts.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Good thing you're willing to break your financial back to finance the US world-education & police- campaign then. $1.3B to get afghan girls back to school, and to get rid of the brave freedom fighters you trained and financed in the eighties. America is generous. Time to look in the mirror now, and moe the lawn in your own backyard.

 

J.

is sometimes difficult to tell if junai is being obtuse, or is genuine as befuddled as is seeming. you, as a citizen of a marginalized nation worthy only o' mention in the context of whale-killers and recreational seal clubbing, is no doubt a bit envious o' USA superpower status-- culturally emasculating or somesuch. we empathize with your impotent rage and jealousy... it is cute, but irrelevant. nevertheless, whether you thinks the frothing fanatics currently attacking embassies and random westerners in airports and hotels who might possibly be American is somehow legit, this current bit o' chaos sweeping across the isalmic world is, according to the rock hurlers and bug-eyed clerics who is quoted by various news sources, the result o' a 14-minute you-tube video. is that reality sinking in yet?

 

a US airstrike goes bad and 8 civilians end up dead. would we be shocked by a resultant protest by the locals? nope. sadly, what we got is ignorant zealots enraged at the United States o' America 'cause o' the amateurish video production o' a guy living in california. almost as bad, but revealing equal ignorance, is the euro-pundits who is agreeing that the any and all anti-islamic cecil b. demille wannabes should be criminalized.

 

*snort*

 

is a joke. is a horribly unfunny joke that makes us weep and laugh at same time 'cause the concept o' freedom o' speech and freedom o' expression is seemingly universally lauded, but it actual exists nowhere save for the United States... and less here than it once did.

 

clowns.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps. to be fair, junai's nation is also relevant for a week or two every 4 years when the winter olympics is occurring... so, congrats on that.

[Meshugger]

Always good to see Gromnir debating, what delivery, what prose!

 

But to the point. The middle east really needs to take a look in the mirror (notice how the reactions in east asia is much calmer). There's something seriously wrong in their very culture of identity. Pakistan is even calling for Interpool enforcing blasphemy-laws in the name of "preserving a civil society".

 

And for those who constantly claim "Well i am for freedom of speech, but.....", seriously go **** yourselves each and every one of you. If i said the previous statement in the US, or printed it in my own paper or sang it on a record, i would be protected by the first amendment to do so. But is it guaranteed in all member states in the EU? no. Is protected in the middle east? no. In glorious republic of Russia? no. What's the next excuse? You only outlaw "vulgarity"? You want to enforce "civil behaviour"?

 

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

[Calax]

One of the bigger issues in America relating to the Free Speech issue is that they can't have totally free speech. If they did, they'd end up with demagogs who'd whip their followers into killing frenzies and beat the living bejesus out of somebody. That's the only thing that's really dis-allowed under the First amendment... speech that would lead to the imminent danger of a person or persons.

 

Now, I won't say that as people we shouldn't self censor what we say in order to prevent social exposions, but as a society we should be mostly free to discuss and exchange ideas, even if they're complete garbage that hurt us on the whole (see:Discovery Institute) or hurt our reputation with the international community (the current dust up).

[Junai]

nevertheless, whether you thinks the frothing fanatics currently attacking embassies and random westerners in airports and hotels who might possibly be American is somehow legit, this current bit o' chaos sweeping across the isalmic world is, according to the rock hurlers and bug-eyed clerics who is quoted by various news sources, the result o' a 14-minute you-tube video. is that reality sinking in yet?

We've been through this a lot, especially after the Danish Muhammed caricatures in 2006. The norwegian officer Lt Col. Siri Skare was killed in Afghanistan last year, after the American Rev. Terry Jones decided to burn the Quran. This year, some Coptic halfwit from CA decided to insult the muslims - again - and as a result a US ambassador was killed. Do I think the muslim attacks are "legit"? Not at all. Should Americans know better? Yes! You're free to go up to a guy at the local pub and call him an arse. Does that mean he won't punch you in the face? Talk about being befuddled.

 

As for whaling, according to Wikipedia, the Makha tribe in Washington State reinstated whaling in 1999, despite protests from animal rights groups. In Norway, the catch is made solely from one sustainable whale population.

 

J.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Junai

[Gfted1]

Cartoons in French weekly fuel Mohammad furor.

[Gromnir]

nevertheless, whether you thinks the frothing fanatics currently attacking embassies and random westerners in airports and hotels who might possibly be American is somehow legit, this current bit o' chaos sweeping across the isalmic world is, according to the rock hurlers and bug-eyed clerics who is quoted by various news sources, the result o' a 14-minute you-tube video. is that reality sinking in yet?

We've been through this a lot, especially after the Danish Muhammed caricatures in 2006. The norwegian officer Lt Col. Siri Skare was killed in Afghanistan last year, after the American Rev. Terry Jones decided to burn the Quran. This year, some Coptic halfwit from CA decided to insult the muslims - again - and as a result a US ambassador was killed. Do I think the muslim attacks are "legit"? Not at all. Should Americans know better? Yes! You're free to go up to a guy at the local pub and call him an arse. Does that mean he won't punch you in the face? Talk about being befuddled.

 

As for whaling, according to Wikipedia, the Makha tribe in Washington State reinstated whaling in 1999, despite protests from animal rights groups. In Norway, the catch is made solely from one sustainable whale population.

 

J.

 

1)indian tribes is domestic-dependent nations. you got a problem with makha? take up with the makha. is no legal basis for the US to tell makha to stop as the makha whaling rights is granted via treaties.

 

2) as we were saying before, the rest o' the world is apparently a bunch o' 8-year old nitwits when it comes to speech.

 

you honestly think it is ok to punch a guy in the face 'cause he called you an "arse"? to determine if an utterance rises to the level of "fighting words" (a category o' speech not protected by the constitution) we must ask if the speech is likely to, "reasonably incite the average person to retaliate." the retaliation needs be Immediate... no reflective anger. norway is a strange freaking land of seal clubbers and berserkers who respond with violence to any perceived slight? and even if that is what you honestly believe, is you really analogizing the vandalism and murderous activities currently taking place in the muslim world to your bar scenario?

 

do Americans now realize just how childish and backwards the rest of the world is insofar as free speech is concerned? has recent events taught us a lesson? yes. Hell Yes! that were our point. you is all screwy and immature, and this is one aspect o' American Culture that we has no difficulty in declaring unquestionably Superior.

 

message to the world: Grow Up.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 19, 2012 by Gromnir

[Humodour]

do Americans now realize just how childish and backwards the rest of the world is insofar as free speech is concerned? has recent events taught us a lesson? yes. Hell Yes! that were our point. you is all screwy and immature, and this is one aspect o' American Culture that we has no difficulty in declaring unquestionably Superior.

 

message to the world: Grow Up.

 

lol. Keep at it, yank.