Gamers Against Bigotry

[Blarghagh]

I think Diablo 3's always online debacle proved that despite weird or draconian measures, people will still buy the game.

[Orogun01]

Some day, the internet will grow up. Might take a few decades yet.

 

By 'grow up' you mean regulated.

...could also meaning the internet community as a whole growing up enough as to not needing regulation. You tell me which is the most likely outcome.

Yeah and next we'll evolve into higher beings made of energy.

 

The internet is the place where you are either exposed to the things you don't know or dislike and grow up. Or you trap yourself in an infinite loop reinforcing your established views and vices.

Which is why some people who on RL would ignore an offense or go complain to their social circle makes such a big deal over it on the internet. Their loop has been challenged and they have no support group to cushion their belief.

So in the end it comes down to a bunch of people that don't know how to deal with profanity on the web, I doubt that either group will grow up in either case.

[Cantousent]

I don't see a problem with game publishers or social media sites enforcing regulations. No one is forcing people to buy the product. If you don't like manner and severity of the regulation, don't buy the game. That's true of every aspect of the game. If you find games in which angels and devils fight over the fate of humanity, don't buy Diablo. If you don't like games where people kill one another, don't buy Modern Warfare. if you don't like talking pieces of lego, don't buy Lego Universe.

 

If the government forced me to buy the product, I would demand a much greater say in what that product was or did.

[Meshugger]

Jesus christ, all this "we have to regulate free speech because it is [insert silly reason here]"-talk hasn't changed in any medium since Voltaire. And each and every time it fails miserably on a fundemental level. Why? because every time you try to enforce "good values" you end up corrupting them. Take any good creed like selflessness, rectitude or benevolence and instantiate them as a code of conduct. Before you know it, you get punishment for not being benevolent or righteouss enough and the the whole point of these values are completely rendered null.

 

Just realize that you are not for free speech, but rather for "nice" speech instead. End the hypocrisy already.

 

So what if there are douchebags, twits, idiots, nutcases and downright evil beings out there spewing their vile and putrid opinions? There's an equal amount thought-provoking and profound material out there, only to be found in an enviroment where you can say exactly what you want. Just let it go, and don't destroy something that is beautiful, again.

[Monte Carlo]

The world needs to man up. Srsly. Sticks and stones.

[Nepenthe]

The world needs to man up. Srsly. Sticks and stones.

I dunno, like Cantousent, I'm quite used to being left alone by even the most intoxicated troublemakers in real life(probably due to my size, I can't imagine 10 years of martial arts being visible after another decade spent on a sofa, picking my nose and eating pringles), so the fact that I have to listen to all kinds of annoying people online tends to puzzle me a bit.

[Orogun01]

Wait a minute....you pick you nose and eat pringles at the same time?

[Mamoulian War]

Wait a minute....you pick you nose and eat pringles at the same time?

 

It's just for the taste

[Nepenthe]

Wait a minute....you pick you nose and eat pringles at the same time?

Alternatingly or with different hands. Clearly you've never heard why camel herders only eat with their right hand.

[Orogun01]

Wait a minute....you pick you nose and eat pringles at the same time?

Alternatingly or with different hands. Clearly you've never heard why camel herders only eat with their right hand.

Because they **** with their left and they can't clean it because water in the desert is precious?

[Blarghagh]

So in the end it comes down to a bunch of people that don't know how to deal with profanity on the web, I doubt that either group will grow up in either case.

 

I'd think this thread would have adressed all the "sticks and stones" and "it's just some tosser cursing at someone" ideas. There's a difference between profanity and being harrassed and attacked for who you are. I don't care about bad language, what I care about is keeping these public places free from hurtful hate speech, rampant racism and discrimination and the inexcusable behaviour towards women that is somehow prevalent among gamers. People shouldn't have to hide who they are to play a game, and they definitely shouldn't be attacked for it.

 

With these last few posts about nosepringling this thread seems to have run its course so it might as well be closed. It only seems to have created rationalized passivity anyway.

Edited July 29, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Volourn]

"inexcusable behaviour towards women that is somehow prevalent among gamers."

 

What s exist comment. There's plenty of 'inexcusable behaviour' towards men as well. And, said behaviour is not a gamer only disease. It inflicts all aspects of life. My god, I despise sexist pigs who believe women are sow eak and fragile that they need special protections while men are a-ok and are allowed to be abused, ahrassed, assaulted, and there's no issue with it. Total garbage.

 

Daddy beat up Little Johnny jr and he's just ';toughening' him up. but, he beats up Sally (and what a monster he is! MURDER DEATH KILL!

 

 

Way to much sexist pig double standards going on. But, hey, sexismis just a male only disease.... L0L What a myth.

 

Man beats up woman = MONSTER

 

Woman cuts off man's **** = he is a man so he deserved it

 

R00fles!

[Blarghagh]

Misandry is also discrimination, and therefore would fall under bigotry.

 

Already adressed, Volourn, now please don't project your bull upon me.

Edited July 29, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Fighter]

Implying women are not more special than men is sexist!

[Orogun01]

 

I'd think this thread would have adressed all the "sticks and stones" and "it's just some tosser cursing at someone" ideas. There's a difference between profanity and being harrassed and attacked for who you are. I don't care about bad language, what I care about is keeping these public places free from hurtful hate speech, rampant racism and discrimination and the inexcusable behaviour towards women that is somehow prevalent among gamers. People shouldn't have to hide who they are to play a game, and they definitely shouldn't be attacked for it.

 

With these last few posts about nosepringling this thread seems to have run its course so it might as well be closed. It only seems to have created rationalized passivity anyway.

Sorry but i'm of the opinion that any genuine show of personality and individuality should be crushed by insults so that said person can become as repressed and miserable as the rest of us.

 

Plus, what's the damage?

[Tigranes]

Just realize that you are not for free speech, but rather for "nice" speech instead. End the hypocrisy already.

 

I'm certainly for nice speech rather than free speech, under that definition. And, in fact, large chunks of the developed world are, in practice. We only think we can deal with free speech because we've developed mechanisms to shield ourselves from its worst.

[Cantousent]

Sorry but i'm of the opinion that any genuine show of personality and individuality should be crushed by insults so that said person can become as repressed and miserable as the rest of us.

 

I laughed. out. loud, ya bastard.

 

As for you, Neutral, I wouldn't classify my attitude as rationalized passivity. In fact, while I can't speak for anyone else, I would say that I'm quite active in that I believe our essential right to speak is more important than our feelings. In my experience over the years, most truly nasty exchanges have been mutual. Yes, one person might have started it, but it continued by reciprocated responses. The other observation I will make, and Kirottu mentioned this also, is that truly nasty exchanges tend to be personal rather than race/sex/sexual orientation based. The exception is religious discussions which tend to devolve into wide spread mayhem very quickly.

 

In most terms of service I have seen, excessive bigotry can lead to censure or ban by the company running the servers. That's perfectly fair. Private companies should have the right to police behavior on privately owned servers.

 

One caveat: the freedom of speech in the US generally means something more permissive than the laws in many countries. Canada, for instance, is far more restrictive. I respect the stance in Canada, but I disagree with it. A free exchange of ideas is absolutely vital in a representative government. It's not that I'm passive about the issue. It's that I'm entirely and actively against unnecessary restriction of speech, even when I despise what someone else has to say. Of course, I'm going to visit someone from Canada next month, and I don't want to get myself in hot water by disparaging the great nation of Canada in any way. :Cant's tongue in cheek icon:

[Spider]

A free exchange of ideas is one thing, telling someone "I hope you get raped" when they beat you in a game is something else entirely and has nothing to do with the concept free speech.

[Volourn]

"Already adressed, Volourn, now please don't project your bull upon me. "

 

Oh, please. one throwaway line with entire paragraphs crying how big bad men are being mean to tiny helpless girls is not addressing anything. It's the same kind of attitude that has a alrge majority of soldiers being male. Males are considered expendable and garbage 'cause who cares if they die because they don't carry babies in their stomach. Talk about sexist pigs.

 

Too many people who claim they want equality don't really mean that. I want real equality but the world cna't handle it.

[sorophx]

the majority of soldiers are males mainly because they are better prepared physically, and have it easier when it comes to carrying heavy stuff for miles. a lot of young women just can't cut it because they're not adequately prepared for the job.

 

I do agree that some armies have interesting regulations concerning women (like the fact that women can't be in infantry, but still end up fighting, when they're on patrol for example) that shouldn't be there.

 

and then there's the unwanted relationships between male and female soldiers. what I'm getting at is: it's not because men are "expendable", that most armies are "men only". it's because it's easier to control a bunch of men when there are no women around.

 

there are strictly female combat units (Israel) for example, there are attempts at giving women more options (German Army's KSK allows women to try out, but I'm afraid no woman ever will)

[Blarghagh]

"Already adressed, Volourn, now please don't project your bull upon me. "

 

Oh, please. one throwaway line with entire paragraphs crying how big bad men are being mean to tiny helpless girls is not addressing anything. It's the same kind of attitude that has a alrge majority of soldiers being male. Males are considered expendable and garbage 'cause who cares if they die because they don't carry babies in their stomach. Talk about sexist pigs.

 

Too many people who claim they want equality don't really mean that. I want real equality but the world cna't handle it.

 

This is not about the world. This is about games, not politics and free speech, which is a much higher reaching subject that most people seem to be debating here yet is irrelevant to the subject of "pressuring devs to create measures against discrimination inside their private online environments". It's also not about nitpicking what deserves the most attention. I am aware of misandry existing and any measures devs implement would simply ALSO apply to that. It's as simple as that. It doesn't matter one iota which type of discrimination gets the most "air time", making debating it entirely pointless. The reason most of my examples have been about mysogyny is because there are more recorded incidents of this I could reference to, not because of your bull**** and insulting projections of needing to "protect weak girls". There's been plenty of references to racism, discrimination on sexual preference and ableism in this thread as well, so implying the entire thread is about "big bad men being mean to little women" is ridiculously selective and simply false, especially because anything discussed could just as easily be applied to misandry.

 

With the acknowledgement of this issue, debating this as an issue in this topic any further in this context is a waste of everyone's time, including yours, and is just railing on about your personal pet peeve rather than participating in the actual discussion at hand.

 

Also, your offensive manner about the subject, no matter how true, just serves to make sure nobody will take it seriously simply because of the way you are saying it. By your manner you are making the subject seem less of a big deal, effectively making it worse. Honestly, it just makes you come off like this:

 

[Fighter]

What measures would you want to see?

[Blarghagh]

As for solutions, I don't have any that I know will work, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Since devs want to keep their customers, I'm thinking permanent bans are out of the question, World of WarCraft shows temporary bans even when people are still paying for subscriptions have only slightly impacted the problem. I'm going to cite James Portnow's idea of auto-muting anyone with enough verified complaints. Only people who actually want to hear the person will unmute him. I don't know how this will work out if actually put to use, but it might work at least to some extent and it seems worth trying.

 

It's a start, and I bet there are more ways. Something I've been thinking about is that ridicule seems like it would be a good weapon, anyone with enough verified complaints gets their voice chats auto-heliumized, their chat font becomes pink comic sans, I don't know. Make sure that anyone who spouts hate speech is automatically funny more than anything else.

 

EDIT: Of course, some jokers would do it just to get those things, and other would see it as a badge of honor.

Edited July 30, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Monte Carlo]

anyone with enough verified complaints gets their [snipped] font becomes pink comic sans, I don't know. Make sure that anyone who spouts hate speech is automatically funny more than anything else.

 

Man, you are a freaking sadist. Where do you work, Gitmo?

[Malcador]

Hmm, this doesn't seem that bad.