jivex5k Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I've been loving this game! I've named the solidiers after my friends and happily inform them of their brave yet grisly deaths. Damn muntons....mutons.....uh.. Damn tanky aliens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 that's probably it. Just frustrating that it doesn't show up in the list when I only have 4, like everything else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivex5k Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I am really bummed out by this game. I have only managed to play a few hours on classic ironman but so far there are major design issues with cover, movement and line of sight that result in the game being an excersise in frustration in addition to dull and boring. I will keep playing and hope it gets better but for now this is the biggest dissapointment of the year Why? What's wrong with it? I've been having a blast with this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I also hate how line of sight seems completely ignored in many cases where the aliens manage to shoot through not only walls but entire hills. This threw me for a loop at first, but once I realized how the game mechanics were working, it became less of a bother. Note that half cover does not impose any sort of LOS penalty on opposition, so keep that in mind. If you're beside "full cover" you will always be able to see around corners (likewise you will always be seen). There's some quirks with how the system works, but I do find them predictable and have figured out most of the quirks for LOS and cover to ensure I'm not dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivex5k Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Does anyone know how to use the:"Tactical view" or whatever to scope out aliens for more info. I keep seeing it referenced after autopsy but can't figure out how to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 bes solution to overwatch is t gt the assault upgrade where the first one will miss automatically. I have a fairly big crush on assault soldiers overall. Hurli, to answer your question why anyone would play on ironman the first time, for me it's because I don't mind failing. I want the game to be challenging, hard and unforgiving. I want losses to be felt, and I don't mind restarting when things spiral out of control. That way when I beat the game, it'll be that much sweeter. I have a question that I feel really stupid for asking: What do I have to do to be able to build workshops? because I could swear I could build those in one of my first playthroughs, but in my last one where I got a lot further than before, they just weren't available to me. An 4 engineers really aren't enough... I don't mind failing and will probably always play ironman, but I was feeling "the cheese" on Classic XD. I'm on Normal at home, but work is still classic. As for the workshop, I think you need to earn an engineer (in any way I assume). I notice that Lab unlocks when I earn scientists from missions, workshop when I earn engineers (which NEVER happened my first game...), and Officer quarters when I earn a squadmate (you start with one on normal though... LOL). So sometimes you have to choose that low panic country just to unlock the workshop (which needs 6 engineers to build anyways ). Good luck though. Having a blast still! Fortunately I went to bed at the more reasonable time of.... 4 AM <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Does anyone know how to use the:"Tactical view" or whatever to scope out aliens for more info. I keep seeing it referenced after autopsy but can't figure out how to use it. Hmmmmm. I have.... done this a lot but can't remember off the top of my head :S I thought it seemed "obvious." Sadly I'm "working" right now and can't explicitly tell you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmud Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Why don't you ratchet the difficulty down a notch? I've been playing in normal and I'm not having any of those frustrations. Overwatch has also worked pretty well for me. Because supposedly on normal it gets really, really easy at the end. So easy that it becomes unfun to play. But then again, this is totally unfun so maybe you have a point... Edited October 10, 2012 by mrmud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Then you can up it to Classic I suppose (difficulty isn't static). EDIT: What other LOS issues are you having? I do find that there are issues with knowing how far a guy can see in the distance (this exists in most games of this nature I find). Fire off some pics maybe and describe where you're having issues? Most of my LOS issues came from not entirely understanding cover, but I seem to have figured that out now. Edited October 10, 2012 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmud Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Sight distance is one major thing. Seemingly being able to shoot through terrain another. I had one of my squaddies being shot through what seemed to be a hill. It was probably a valid shot but the long range combined with the terrain between and how cover is unintuative made me very suprised when a unit I thought was safe ended up dying to it. The third is that I cant seem to figure out when I actually flank or even am able to shoot an alien before I move. Having some indicator that showed what terrain you can see and what terrain you would be able to see when you move somewhere would make wonders. I also don't understand why my units wont always reaction fire on enemies that should clearly be in line of sight when they are on overwatch. I think you can only go down in difficulty not up. At least I could not switch to Impossible from Classic. Edited October 10, 2012 by mrmud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) One thing that bothers me - Why do I have to choose between a nano-fiber vest and a grenade/medkit/stunner? How does that make inventory sense? Oh, and the same thing with the scope. It goes on the weapon for goodness sake! Edited October 10, 2012 by Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmud Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 One thing that bothers me - Why do I have to choose between a nano-fiber vest and a grenade/medkit/stunner? How does that make inventory sense? Oh, and the same thing with the scope. It goes on the weapon for goodness sake! It is one of many things in this game that screams "we made this mechanic for balance and accessability purposes". The result is something where it much more feels like you are playing a slightly bland game instead of like the original where you feel like you are in control of this alien fighting organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) we made this mechanic for balance and accessability purposes It's a balance thing, but not at all an accessibility thing (since it's entirely arbitrary). The result is something where it much more feels like you are playing a slightly bland game instead of like the original where you feel like you are in control of this alien fighting organization. Well, some stuff like the SCOPE and nano-fiber vest doesn't even have an analogue to the original game. The third is that I cant seem to figure out when I actually flank or even am able to shoot an alien before I move. The moving I think you just need to get used to and learn. Though this was similar to the original game as well (although everyone functionally had "Squad sight" in the original). As for flanking, there are subtle arcs that I haven't figured out yet, but I basically look at it as though I need to be looking completely down his side with no obstruction. So like this: .A| | | | ---- Y ----- X While shooting at A, if you're at Y you aren't literally looking down the exact same square that is parallel to the target's cover, and while I think there has been the very rare occurrence where I have gotten flanking in a situation like that (at a very long distance), if you put yourself at position X you will receive the flanking bonus. Use this to help cover your flanks as well with back units compared to forward units. Edited October 10, 2012 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I have never played XCOM really? I feel sorry for you, Tig. it's one of the scariest and most atmospheric games I've ever played, not to mention it's a perfect blend of strategy, microeconomics and tactics. but I'm afraid today its cartoony graphics will make the game less gripping for the new player. Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm curious how it will feel to load up the original now after playing this one. It kind of reminds me how the Firaxis remake of Pirates was very good in its own right, but also still had enough differences to make it unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Also, for some LOS tips | | | | |------- XY If you're at position X, you'll always be "peeking" down that corner and things will still be able to see you as well (assuming this is full cover) and shoot at a -40% penalty. If you're at Y, you're completely out of sight, and I use this to my advantage where sometimes I move to Y instead of X so that I can go to X on the next turn and sometimes lure aliens into a trap (since they may think they can go around that corner safely, something they won't think if you're at X). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmud Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 we made this mechanic for balance and accessability purposes It's a balance thing, but not at all an accessibility thing (since it's entirely arbitrary). The result is something where it much more feels like you are playing a slightly bland game instead of like the original where you feel like you are in control of this alien fighting organization. Well, some stuff like the SCOPE and nano-fiber vest doesn't even have an analogue to the original game. I think it does partly have to do with accessability. The original was a very complex game with complex inventory management (in particular for a this style of game). Each character could have multiple weapons, grenades, flares, ammo clips. They had mag and grenade slots on various pouch slots as well as able to stash things in their backpack (all of which required different number of time units to use). This game has tried to remove all of this in order to make the game more accessible and this is why you have to choose between having 1 grenade or 1 scope. It makes no tactical sense, but it is "easy". What I meant by feeling like you were in charge of an actual organisation instead of playing a game has nothing to do with there being different types of items in the games. Done right, complexity breeds versimilitude and the original had lots of it. Anyway, I restarted again. This time on normal and the game feels much more "fair" this way. The problem? Now its to easy. Where last time I had ten dead squaddies, now I have zero. I wish there could be a happy medium inbetween those two difficulty levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Done right, complexity breeds versimilitude and the original had lots of it. When discussing versimiiitude, lets not forget that one of the default tactics for the original was opening up doors to UFOs and then firing off the stun launcher to stun him so he wouldn't get killed since it was impossible to back out. Or how distance doesn't affect accuracy for any character. I think what some of people loved about XCOM was that it made them feel "clever" in that they were able to come up with solutions to overcome some of the rather gamey aspects of some of its game mechanics as well. I mean, once psionics exist you get the lowest psi resistance guy in the game and bring him onto your ship with completely no equipment as his entire life existence is simply to be panicked and mind controlled. (LOS wasn't required for the aliens either) The original XCOM is a fantastic game, but there's a lot of gaming mechanics that breakdown verisimilitude in that regard as well. As for the accessibility, I suppose it depends on how well we want to take Solomon's word on his motivations for some of the design choices. I doubt it's less "accessibility" but more to the idea that he wanted gamers to have to make difficult choices in the game. It's a bit like Doom's flashlight, which pissed people off, but the idea behind it was to have to choose between having visibility or the firepower to effectively deal with the hostiles. If the idea was to just make it easy/accessible, the underlay would just be a blanket +2 health to everyone (because why WOULDN'T you use it?). What Jake has done is try to create a strategic decision with two different benefits and an opportunity cost, that feeds into the tactical component of the game. I consider stuff like this to be contrary to accessibility (i.e. I feel it intrinsically makes the game more complicated when players have to make these types of choices). Edited October 10, 2012 by alanschu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I love the original tremendously, but it had plenty of flaws. This game already does a few things better than the original, which should be expected. There are some simplified things, but the complexity is still there in spades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 As is the conspriacy theory that the game's random number generator is broken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) As is the conspriacy theory that the game's random number generator is broken! There is no conspiracy theory. 70-79% chance shots are actually <10% shots, but the game mislabels them. >_> Edited October 11, 2012 by Deraldin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majek Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Well i love JA games that don't tell you at all how much chance you have to hit, so i won't be bothered by that . :D 1.13 killed off Ja2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melkathi Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I am fairly certain that if 75% chance shots only missed their target 1 out of 4 times, old fans of the series would complain that this is not a true X-Com experience Unobtrusively informing you about my new ebook (which you should feel free to read and shower with praise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvir Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Must not... tempt myself to read this thread... must.. resist... *caught a glimpse* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I am fairly certain that if 75% chance shots only missed their target 1 out of 4 times, old fans of the series would complain that this is not a true X-Com experience I barely killed the last Muton on a level because my Major missed him at 97% XD. Fortunately my 69% last chance shot did hit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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