Humodour Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) I was just flicking through country stats and when I read the list of the countries in the world ranked by number of Internet users I did a bit of a double-take: there is a LOT of untapped potential left. LOTS of new citizens will be added to the Internet every year for decades to come. Including from nearly-developed countries like Poland, Italy, Brazil, and Russia. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2153rank.html?countryName=Australia&countryCode=as®ionCode=aus&rank=25#as Edit: to clarify, my core point is that the Internet still only covers about 1/7th of the world's population (with low saturation in key developing countries like Nigeria, Indonesia, China, and India), so it's quite likely we'll see a 3 or 4-fold increase in Internet user population in the 10 and 20 years. That will bring a lot of changes with it, just as the rapid increases in Internet size of the past have (I don't know if you guys have really noticed, but the Internet is for better or worse no longer the domain of scientists, academics and techies that it was in the 90's and early 2000's). Edited April 22, 2012 by Krezack
Gorth Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 I'm not sure that I would classify Italy as a developing, nearly or not, country. It has twice the GDP of Australia and is the worlds 11th largest economy (and that's without a disproportionately large mining sector). “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Walsingham Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 But just think of all the rare metals, plastics, and copper needed to get all those folks online. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Rosbjerg Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 That's a good thing Walsh, using resources to connect human beings are well spend resources .. instead they would probably go to weapon manufacturing or some other wasteful endeavor. 1 Fortune favors the bald.
Gorgon Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Bringing people together under state control and censorship one could argue, in the case of China. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Malcador Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 That's a good thing Walsh, using resources to connect human beings are well spend resources .. instead they would probably go to weapon manufacturing or some other wasteful endeavor. I dunno, most of the internet seems to be wasteful. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Tigranes Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 The last few years there's been some talk about how this will involve a more multilingual internet, symbolised by the proliferation of various domain suffixes, regional enclaves (because we know now the internet is definitely spatial in its own way), etc. I think you can definitely point to at least the Korean internetscape and note how such enclaves thrive and develop - I'm sure it's also the case in some others I don't have language access to, e.g. Russian. What will really be interesting is how those regional landscapes become commercialised, e.g. in the way the Anglophone one has been. (Not that they aren't already, but I mean how the global interlocking of internet-based industries and businesses will work, the flow of money.) Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Rosbjerg Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 I dunno, most of the internet seems to be wasteful. So is most of the democratic process .. The internet is catalyst for many thing, good and bad - but what is does good outweighs the bad many times over. little video from TED talk is just one example of what good we can achieve with enough people. Fortune favors the bald.
Gorgon Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 I don't know that connectivity is inherently a democratizing force or 'bringing us together' in the idalistic sense. I hope along with everyone else that technology is going to be our great savior, but honestly history suggest we are more likely to repeat our mistakes in perpetuity. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Walsingham Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 All the copper wire in the universe can't change the basic nature of man from being parochial, lazy, and selfish. Utopia projects are - even in Civ - a pointless distraction from meaningful pedestrian policies. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Rosbjerg Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 History also shows us that society has evolved, often through great turmoil and duress, but evolved none-the-less .. and more often than not when people came together. So it depends on how you read history .. we might very well end up destroying our current civilization, but we humans are tough SOBs and in the end I'm sure well keep selfishly dreaming and striving towards a better tomorrow. 1 Fortune favors the bald.
LadyCrimson Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Edit: to clarify, my core point is that the Internet still only covers about 1/7th of the world's population (with low saturation in key developing countries like Nigeria, Indonesia, China, and India), And many of those still have lowish speed internet and/or fairly severe bandwidth limits. I see ppl in forums constantly saying things like "everyone has 'net/highspeed/unlimited bandwidth nowadays" and laugh. I don't know if more will change the world that much tho, outside of better/faster access to the news/events and perhaps more physical sloth - assuming an area's internet isn't censored. Mostly seems like it'll change bandwidth/true speed capability (vs. advertised speeds ) for a while as companies fall more and more behind on keeping infrastructure up with demand. That's about it. And yeah, the 'net hasn't been a majority domain of science/computer geeks for ages now. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
WDeranged Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 I've got a vague hope that a truly world wide web with good translation algorithms might make illegitimate wars a bit less likely, it's much harder to demonise a far flung nation if your populace can feely communicate with them.
Malcador Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Doubt it, they would have to want to talk to and trust those foreigners first. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
LadyCrimson Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Not to mention, know where they're from to begin with. With the anonymous nature of most of the internet, that doesn't happen (at least initially) all that often anymore....except in a few places/circumstances. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Walsingham Posted April 23, 2012 Posted April 23, 2012 I've got a vague hope that a truly world wide web with good translation algorithms might make illegitimate wars a bit less likely, it's much harder to demonise a far flung nation if your populace can feely communicate with them. While I approve the sentiment, all I've seen the internet do in that respect is promote moral relativism to the extent that a mass murdering foreign dictator is trusted more than a democratically elected European government. The equivalent effect in dictatorial countries matters much less because the people aren't consulted. ~~ I don't mean to sound defeatist. I believe in change and improvement. But I believe in change centred on and driven by rare good people, not a notion of the common man set free. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Humodour Posted April 23, 2012 Author Posted April 23, 2012 I don't mean to sound defeatist. I believe in change and improvement. But I believe in change centred on and driven by rare good people, not a notion of the common man set free. And who do you think props up all those 'rare good people', Wals? Because most of them are not millionaires, most of them don't have millions of hands, or minds, or even perspectives that they can use at once. And the number of 'rare good people' expands dramatically when you expand the definition to 'normal people' who are experts or professionals in a field (which thankfully even the dumbest among us tend to be), your scepticism towards the concept of change being driven by 'the common man set free' really starts to fall apart. The Internet would unambiguously be a society-shatteringly good thing even if its only purpose were to magnify the abilities of those 'rare good people' (who are rather common), but thankfully it isn't. The Internet is not a uniform good, like much of technology. But damn, mate, it has a pretty smegging good track record. By the way, if anybody is curious about some of the ways the Internet has, is and will be shaping humanity in the future, these topics are worth doing some research on (Wikipedia is a good place to start... haha): Kaggle Wikipedia Linux GNU Kickstarter Mozilla Raspberry Pi Khan Academy (while this fits well into your 'rare good people argument, Wals, the fact is ordinary people have been sharing their knowledge freely and accurately on the Internet since its inception - all those tutorial writers for whatever topic you can think of and which we all find handy fairly often are a classic example of the power of the average joe when given a medium to share his expertise in his field) Mesh networking (check this out if you're curious about truly eliminating Internet censorship, or are curious about ways to decentralise the Internet and thus make it more fault-tolerant)
Guard Dog Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 I happen to know that a good number of mid sized cities on northern Mexico will soon have public wi-fi. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Masterfade Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) I've got a vague hope that a truly world wide web with good translation algorithms might make illegitimate wars a bit less likely, it's much harder to demonise a far flung nation if your populace can feely communicate with them. Even without the language barrier, communications are likely to go wrong unless there are shared cultural and social contexts between the parties. Greater ease of communication without shared background may simply create more opportunities for prejudice and misunderstanding, e.g. the uproar over necrophilia law in Egypt. Edited May 9, 2012 by Masterfade
Meshugger Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 I happen to know that a good number of mid sized cities on northern Mexico will soon have public wi-fi. What, did you put them up yourself or something? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Walsingham Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 I happen to know that a good number of mid sized cities on northern Mexico will soon have public wi-fi. What, did you put them up yourself or something? Actually, iirc he did. 1 "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Guard Dog Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Yes I did! And I did it while single handedly fighting the Nombre Malo de los Zetas. Viva la paz y la libertad en del Norte! I was like the three amigos all rolled into one! OOORAH! But in reality I just helped design the wireless backhaul and tried to stay out of trouble. 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Gorth Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 They call him... El Mariachi! “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Serrano Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) They call him... El Dise Edited May 10, 2012 by Serrano
Gorth Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 They call him... El Dise “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
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